He could be a late spanner for 2019. Training well from all reports. If he has a strong JLT, it could definitely tempt Woosha to go for a 2 ruck set up. I agree that Z.Clarke at R2 would be the ideal structure if Z.Clarke seems likely to get early games. McKernan/M.Brown/Stewart are the main ones he'd be contending with and they aren't really locks in the 22. All recycled players as well.
Position Rucks Discussion
- Thread starter IDIG
- Start date
Starting Hoff at R2 & Z.Clarke as an (E) gives you the chance to have a look at Clarke early, see if he's going to get consistent games, score well and then you can swing Hoff forward early if needed and purely run Clarke at R2.
Hoff the perfect insurance this year I feel. Touch wood he stays fit this preseason.
Hoff the perfect insurance this year I feel. Touch wood he stays fit this preseason.
It's important to note that between 2013-2016 Kreuzer often didn't play as a number one ruck (possibly due to injuries/interrupted preseasons/fitness issues). In 2015, he shared his time with Cameron Wood. In 2016, he shared his time with Andrew Phillips (and Gorringe). In 2013, Kreuzer shared his time in ruck with Warnock. I don't think that those averages are the best reflection of his scoring potential.
I've gone through and briefly looked at games where Kreuzer was the only RUC selected for the Blues.
2013 - 114 from 9 games (without Warnock) [Note: this might be from when the old ruck scoring system was in effect which probably inflates this average by 5-10ppg]
2015 - 98 from 4 games (without Wood)
2016 - 111 from 2 games (without Phillips or Gorringe). In the 16 games they played together, Kreuzer averaged 47.5 Ruck Contests (RC) to Phillips 39.
2017 - 110 from 21 games. Phillips only played when Kreuzer was injured. Kreuzer averaged 70 RCs
Main point is though, I don't think you can just discount Kreuzer's scoring ability based on the SC averages in past seasons alone. While he's definitely a massive injury risk, I think in the pure number one ruck role, he's shown that he can score at 100+.
While there are only small sample sizes in 2015 and 2016, there was a stretch in 2013 and the whole of 2017 where Kreuzer finally was able to play as a number one ruck and he scored at 105+ in those patches. With a good preseason and another crack at a number one ruck role, I think Kreuzer can score at 100-105. Definitely a huge injury risk, but for those trying to switch him with Gawn at the byes, he only needs to last half the season.
I've gone through and briefly looked at games where Kreuzer was the only RUC selected for the Blues.
2013 - 114 from 9 games (without Warnock) [Note: this might be from when the old ruck scoring system was in effect which probably inflates this average by 5-10ppg]
2015 - 98 from 4 games (without Wood)
2016 - 111 from 2 games (without Phillips or Gorringe). In the 16 games they played together, Kreuzer averaged 47.5 Ruck Contests (RC) to Phillips 39.
2017 - 110 from 21 games. Phillips only played when Kreuzer was injured. Kreuzer averaged 70 RCs
Main point is though, I don't think you can just discount Kreuzer's scoring ability based on the SC averages in past seasons alone. While he's definitely a massive injury risk, I think in the pure number one ruck role, he's shown that he can score at 100+.
While there are only small sample sizes in 2015 and 2016, there was a stretch in 2013 and the whole of 2017 where Kreuzer finally was able to play as a number one ruck and he scored at 105+ in those patches. With a good preseason and another crack at a number one ruck role, I think Kreuzer can score at 100-105. Definitely a huge injury risk, but for those trying to switch him with Gawn at the byes, he only needs to last half the season.
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I strongly doubt they'd play Joe out of position again. Last year was a disaster. I think the club will look after him and just let him sit deep and hit up at it.
Another ruck I'm tempted in is Nank.
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pu-richmond-tigers--toby-nankervis
2016: 6 games - 74 average *Bit part player at Swans.
2017: 21 games - 88 average *New club, lone ruck.
2018: 21 games - 98 average *Established.
Will be the lone wolf again at the Tigers. Is another year older now and will turn 25 during the season. Still plenty of scope to improve his tank & game. A big plus for mine is he's a fairly mobile ruckman and doesn't rely on a heap of hitouts to score well.
Do the new rules help him? Who knows.
Another ruck I'm tempted in is Nank.
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pu-richmond-tigers--toby-nankervis
2016: 6 games - 74 average *Bit part player at Swans.
2017: 21 games - 88 average *New club, lone ruck.
2018: 21 games - 98 average *Established.
Will be the lone wolf again at the Tigers. Is another year older now and will turn 25 during the season. Still plenty of scope to improve his tank & game. A big plus for mine is he's a fairly mobile ruckman and doesn't rely on a heap of hitouts to score well.
Do the new rules help him? Who knows.
You would want Clarke to play first few rounds because that is probably his best chance of getting a couple of solid scores on the board to kick off his price increase. Essendon play Giants, St Kilda, but then Melb, Lions, Roos and Collingwood. So a good start but then four of the top six priced rucks. Still in the past he has scored tons against rucks like Goldy and Jacobs when they were at their best. He also scored a ton against the Eagles when he did not play that much in the ruck but kicked 3 goals. In fact he kicked 28 goals in the WAFL last year so if JD isn't ready for a few early games Clarke can also be the guy who sits up front when not rucking and kicks a few goals. It is an interesting idea starting him R2.
The Phantom’s SuperCoach pre-season: Premium ruckmen analysis
The Phantom, The Advertiser
January 24, 2019 7:30am
Subscriber only
Today, we look at the top-priced ruckmen for 2019. Can any other big man compete with Grundy and Gawn? The Phantom runs the rule over the best premium options.
THE STARS
Brodie Grundy
(Collingwood $708,200)
Not since former Eagle Dean Cox went back-to-back in 2011 and 2012 has any ruckman finished as the top-ranked scorer in consecutive seasons.
Not even the dominant big men of the past few seasons Max Gawn and Todd Goldstein have done it.
But if any player is going to break the trend, it might be Grundy in 2019.
The Collingwood big man added an enormous 33 points to his average last season after posting 19 SuperCoach tons — seven them in excess of 150.
Grundy had more hitouts, disposals, clearances, contested possessions and tackles than any other ruckman.
In fact, his 12 contested possessions per game ranked him 20th in the competition — that’s higher than Dustin Martin, Luke Shuey, Adam Treloar, Stephen Coniglio, Dayne Beams and Scott Pendlebury.
And his clearances number had the 24-year-old equal with midfield stars Matt Crouch and Joel Selwood.
Given a ruckman will this year be allowed to grab the ball out of the ruck and no longer be regarded as having had prior opportunity, expect these numbers to climb.
The Phantom’s Verdict: He’s expensive but you’ll be caught short without him.
Max Gawn
(Melbourne $692,100)
The Melbourne star joined Grundy in the top-three overall scorers after posting 18 SuperCoach tons in an outstanding season.
With an average of 118, Gawn was the top-ranked ruckman in 2016 before a hamstring injury saw the 27-year-old manage just 13 appearances the following year.
But he was back to his best in an injury-free 2018.
Gawn wasn’t as prolific around the ground as Grundy but was more effective in the ruck, recording more hitouts-to-advantage.
Like Grundy, his influence is very difficult to quell.
The only concern — and maybe we’re overplaying it — is the effect recruit Brayden Preuss may have on Gawn’s scoring.
The former Kangaroo might only pinch-hit every so often but he might also play 22 games and help ease the load on Gawn.
Time will tell.
The Phantom’s Verdict: Ideally you have them both but that’s a huge expense. But it might be worth it if the Preuss factor becomes non-existent as we build up to Round 1.
NEXT IN LINE
Stefan Martin
(Brisbane $573,700)
Since joining the Lions, the 32-year-old has been a consistent SuperCoach ruckman, averaging 106 or more in three of the past five seasons.
After his averaged fell to 98 in 2017 and with the thought young big man Archie Smith might feature more, there was concern over Martin’s SuperCoach scoring prior to last season.
But the athletic Martin put those concerns to bed, posting 13 SuperCoach tons, five of them in excess of 130, finishing inside the top four in Brisbane’s best-and-fairest for the fourth time in as many seasons.
The Phantom’s Verdict: While he’s unlikely to match the scoring of Grundy and Gawn, Martin, as long he continues as Brisbane’s solo ruckman, is worth some thought at more than $100k less.
Todd Goldstein
(North Melbourne $548,000)
At the end of 2015, Goldstein was — by some margin — the best ruckman in the game after recording a SuperCoach of 129 to sit as the top-ranked scorer in the competition.
Fast forward to Round 8, 2018 and — after his average fell to 95 at by the conclusion of 2017 — the 30-year-old was averaging 84 points per game after failing to score more than 77 points in five of his opening eight matches.
At that point, many SuperCoaches — The Phantom included — wrote him off and traded him out.
But in the following 14 rounds, Goldstein posted 12 SuperCoach tons to still finish with a three-figure season average.
Even more impressive was the news Goldstein has shed around 5kg over the pre-season and is in the best shape of his career.
With no Brayden Preuss to worry about, can he get back to his absolute best?
The Phantom’s Verdict: Appears a well-priced R2 candidate if you aren’t going with a value option.
THE SWINGER
Justin Westhoff
(Port Adelaide $549,500)
In his 12th season in the game, Port Adelaide’s oldest player was their top-ranked SuperCoach scorer, finishing 86 points ahead of midfielder Ollie Wines.
The 32-year-old scored 85 points or more in 18 of his 22 matches, posting 10 SuperCoach tons to record a three-figure average for the first time in his career.
The Power utility was everywhere with Ken Hinkley using the best swingman in the game forward, in the ruck, on the wing and behind the ball last year.
As a result, Westhoff has gained valuable dual-position status as a ruckman-forward and, despite an elevated price, remains well and truly in the conversation.
The Phantom’s Verdict: Westhoff should again be given license to roam and, despite not featuring in the ruck as often with the inclusion of Scott Lycett, score well. Only consider if you’re working with a dual-position swing with another ruckman/forward.
The Phantom, The Advertiser
January 24, 2019 7:30am
Subscriber only
Today, we look at the top-priced ruckmen for 2019. Can any other big man compete with Grundy and Gawn? The Phantom runs the rule over the best premium options.
THE STARS
Brodie Grundy
(Collingwood $708,200)
Not since former Eagle Dean Cox went back-to-back in 2011 and 2012 has any ruckman finished as the top-ranked scorer in consecutive seasons.
Not even the dominant big men of the past few seasons Max Gawn and Todd Goldstein have done it.
But if any player is going to break the trend, it might be Grundy in 2019.
The Collingwood big man added an enormous 33 points to his average last season after posting 19 SuperCoach tons — seven them in excess of 150.
Grundy had more hitouts, disposals, clearances, contested possessions and tackles than any other ruckman.
In fact, his 12 contested possessions per game ranked him 20th in the competition — that’s higher than Dustin Martin, Luke Shuey, Adam Treloar, Stephen Coniglio, Dayne Beams and Scott Pendlebury.
And his clearances number had the 24-year-old equal with midfield stars Matt Crouch and Joel Selwood.
Given a ruckman will this year be allowed to grab the ball out of the ruck and no longer be regarded as having had prior opportunity, expect these numbers to climb.
The Phantom’s Verdict: He’s expensive but you’ll be caught short without him.
Max Gawn
(Melbourne $692,100)
The Melbourne star joined Grundy in the top-three overall scorers after posting 18 SuperCoach tons in an outstanding season.
With an average of 118, Gawn was the top-ranked ruckman in 2016 before a hamstring injury saw the 27-year-old manage just 13 appearances the following year.
But he was back to his best in an injury-free 2018.
Gawn wasn’t as prolific around the ground as Grundy but was more effective in the ruck, recording more hitouts-to-advantage.
Like Grundy, his influence is very difficult to quell.
The only concern — and maybe we’re overplaying it — is the effect recruit Brayden Preuss may have on Gawn’s scoring.
The former Kangaroo might only pinch-hit every so often but he might also play 22 games and help ease the load on Gawn.
Time will tell.
The Phantom’s Verdict: Ideally you have them both but that’s a huge expense. But it might be worth it if the Preuss factor becomes non-existent as we build up to Round 1.
NEXT IN LINE
Stefan Martin
(Brisbane $573,700)
Since joining the Lions, the 32-year-old has been a consistent SuperCoach ruckman, averaging 106 or more in three of the past five seasons.
After his averaged fell to 98 in 2017 and with the thought young big man Archie Smith might feature more, there was concern over Martin’s SuperCoach scoring prior to last season.
But the athletic Martin put those concerns to bed, posting 13 SuperCoach tons, five of them in excess of 130, finishing inside the top four in Brisbane’s best-and-fairest for the fourth time in as many seasons.
The Phantom’s Verdict: While he’s unlikely to match the scoring of Grundy and Gawn, Martin, as long he continues as Brisbane’s solo ruckman, is worth some thought at more than $100k less.
Todd Goldstein
(North Melbourne $548,000)
At the end of 2015, Goldstein was — by some margin — the best ruckman in the game after recording a SuperCoach of 129 to sit as the top-ranked scorer in the competition.
Fast forward to Round 8, 2018 and — after his average fell to 95 at by the conclusion of 2017 — the 30-year-old was averaging 84 points per game after failing to score more than 77 points in five of his opening eight matches.
At that point, many SuperCoaches — The Phantom included — wrote him off and traded him out.
But in the following 14 rounds, Goldstein posted 12 SuperCoach tons to still finish with a three-figure season average.
Even more impressive was the news Goldstein has shed around 5kg over the pre-season and is in the best shape of his career.
With no Brayden Preuss to worry about, can he get back to his absolute best?
The Phantom’s Verdict: Appears a well-priced R2 candidate if you aren’t going with a value option.
THE SWINGER
Justin Westhoff
(Port Adelaide $549,500)
In his 12th season in the game, Port Adelaide’s oldest player was their top-ranked SuperCoach scorer, finishing 86 points ahead of midfielder Ollie Wines.
The 32-year-old scored 85 points or more in 18 of his 22 matches, posting 10 SuperCoach tons to record a three-figure average for the first time in his career.
The Power utility was everywhere with Ken Hinkley using the best swingman in the game forward, in the ruck, on the wing and behind the ball last year.
As a result, Westhoff has gained valuable dual-position status as a ruckman-forward and, despite an elevated price, remains well and truly in the conversation.
The Phantom’s Verdict: Westhoff should again be given license to roam and, despite not featuring in the ruck as often with the inclusion of Scott Lycett, score well. Only consider if you’re working with a dual-position swing with another ruckman/forward.
It’s still unclear but the dons could prefer to play Clarke over McKernan when up against some of the stronger rucks, especially as TBC is underdone in the preseason after shoulder surgery. TBC has to face Gawn, SMartin, Goldy, Grundy in a stretch from R3-R6 and also possibly Sandi and Kreuzer before the bye (if they play). I’m wondering whether ZClarke at R3 even if he doesn’t get picked in R1 is a good idea. Should play between R3-R6, if he’s not terrible in the preseason.
Still a fair way to go before we know anything concrete , seems a lot of conjecture surrounding Daniher so Clarke could be another option as a forward (trying to get my head back into football mode) , if Hooker and Hurley stay back , maybe Clarke and McKernan forward.
Clarke is say $ 60,000.00 dearer than a cheap ruck so might be more of a chance to play than most others , cetmrtainly worth a lot of consideration , pity he is not F/R
Clarke is say $ 60,000.00 dearer than a cheap ruck so might be more of a chance to play than most others , cetmrtainly worth a lot of consideration , pity he is not F/R
