Discussion Covid19 Discussion: Policies, Impact, Comparisons

Rowsus

Statistician
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
23,101
Likes
30,681
AFL Club
Melbourne
#3
I really don't understand the Australian reaction to Covid.
At first they did way too little.
Now one person gets Covid, and they want to close the World down!!!
A positive case in the Northern suburbs of Perth should not even bring "should we cancel the football or not?" into the conversation!!!
A ridiculous knee jerk reaction!!!!
 
Joined
31 Mar 2019
Messages
1,780
Likes
4,923
AFL Club
West Coast
#4
I really don't understand the Australian reaction to Covid.
At first they did way too little.
Now one person gets Covid, and they want to close the World down!!!
A positive case in the Northern suburbs of Perth should not even bring "should we cancel the football or not?" into the conversation!!!
A ridiculous knee jerk reaction!!!!
The state government here in Perth has always taken the ultra cautious approach. Not just regarding sport, they can shut the state border at any moment even if it's just for ONE case. It's super annoying and a big disruption to life in general.
 
Joined
22 Jun 2018
Messages
1,429
Likes
7,519
AFL Club
Essendon
#6
I really don't understand the Australian reaction to Covid.
At first they did way too little.
Now one person gets Covid, and they want to close the World down!!!
A positive case in the Northern suburbs of Perth should not even bring "should we cancel the football or not?" into the conversation!!!
A ridiculous knee jerk reaction!!!!
I don't think it is. CoVid in Australia had been eliminated until people from overseas bring it back into the country. Unfortunately our vaccination program has not gone well and very few people have had their first shot let alone the their second.
Also there has not been a death here from CoVid since the start of November and they are trying to avoid any more.
 
Joined
30 Jul 2014
Messages
1,352
Likes
2,783
AFL Club
Sydney
#7
I really don't understand the Australian reaction to Covid.
At first they did way too little.
Now one person gets Covid, and they want to close the World down!!!
A positive case in the Northern suburbs of Perth should not even bring "should we cancel the football or not?" into the conversation!!!
A ridiculous knee jerk reaction!!!!
I’m not a big Osman Faruqi man, but he summed it up well yesterday on Twitter:

‘Man this is funny country. Our biggest cities are see-sawing in and out of lockdown, while comparable countries are heavily vaccinated, life returning to normal, borders open, but Australians still cling to this idea or “Thank god we aren’t the rest of the world!!!”
....People replying “Well at least there weren’t mass deaths!!” as though that’s an excuse for complacency or incompetence. We were lucky, we had the resources to build up public health and vaccinate and we didn’t. We literally just shut borders, you all loved it, now we’re behind.’
 
Joined
17 Apr 2013
Messages
1,160
Likes
1,558
#8
I don't think it is. CoVid in Australia had been eliminated until people from overseas bring it back into the country. Unfortunately our vaccination program has not gone well and very few people have had their first shot let alone the their second.
Also there has not been a death here from CoVid since the start of November and they are trying to avoid any more.
I agree: all states (bar NSW) are following the advice of the CHO (Chief Health Officer) in regards to what is basically a massive public health issue. These CHOs are getting advice from experts in virology, infectious diseases and epidemiology. I would prefer actual experts guiding government response rather than the political response, as has happened in NSW, or has happened in other areas of the globe. As punters we should also recognise that we also do not have this expertise and should always refer to experts who have the respect of their peers.
 
Joined
9 Dec 2020
Messages
608
Likes
2,739
AFL Club
Essendon
#9
I really don't understand the Australian reaction to Covid.
At first they did way too little.
Now one person gets Covid, and they want to close the World down!!!
A positive case in the Northern suburbs of Perth should not even bring "should we cancel the football or not?" into the conversation!!!
A ridiculous knee jerk reaction!!!!
The state government here in Perth has always taken the ultra cautious approach. Not just regarding sport, they can shut the state border at any moment even if it's just for ONE case. It's super annoying and a big disruption to life in general.
I don't think it is. CoVid in Australia had been eliminated until people from overseas bring it back into the country. Unfortunately our vaccination program has not gone well and very few people have had their first shot let alone the their second.
Also there has not been a death here from CoVid since the start of November and they are trying to avoid any more.
I’m not a big Osman Faruqi man, but he summed it up well yesterday on Twitter:

‘Man this is funny country. Our biggest cities are see-sawing in and out of lockdown, while comparable countries are heavily vaccinated, life returning to normal, borders open, but Australians still cling to this idea or “Thank god we aren’t the rest of the world!!!”
....People replying “Well at least there weren’t mass deaths!!” as though that’s an excuse for complacency or incompetence. We were lucky, we had the resources to build up public health and vaccinate and we didn’t. We literally just shut borders, you all loved it, now we’re behind.’
I agree: all states (bar NSW) are following the advice of the CHO (Chief Health Officer) in regards to what is basically a massive public health issue. These CHOs are getting advice from experts in virology, infectious diseases and epidemiology. I would prefer actual experts guiding government response rather than the political response, as has happened in NSW, or has happened in other areas of the globe. As punters we should also recognise that we also do not have this expertise and should always refer to experts who have the respect of their peers.
I definitely agree with some of the sentiments here but I just wanted to point out I think we need a degree of sensitivity when talking responses to COVID outbreaks. The financial impacts to business and personal/mental health impacts of isolation are every bit as important as the lives saved from some of these actions, and each person impacted will see merits/issues depending on how they've been affected. (or is it effected, I can never remember!). There is no absolute "good" approach to managing a pandemic like this, so I think we just need to keep that in mind and not necessarily talk in absolutes or use charged language.

Not suggesting anyone here is mind you!

Anyway sorry if this is a little preachy - the vibes on this site are usually spot on but I just thought it was something important to consider.
 
Joined
23 May 2013
Messages
9,447
Likes
13,543
AFL Club
Sydney
#10
I really don't understand the Australian reaction to Covid.
At first they did way too little.
Now one person gets Covid, and they want to close the World down!!!
A positive case in the Northern suburbs of Perth should not even bring "should we cancel the football or not?" into the conversation!!!
A ridiculous knee jerk reaction!!!!
It’s absurd.
 
Joined
23 May 2013
Messages
9,447
Likes
13,543
AFL Club
Sydney
#12
It’s impossible the reconcile the idea of a free and open society with the belief that the only acceptable number of Covid cases is 0.
It’s also (should be) political suicide to have such a manifesto. Not that that will stop the lemmings from voting for the useless thunderc*nts again.
 
Joined
17 Apr 2013
Messages
1,160
Likes
1,558
#14
There are much, much bigger impacts to letting a pandemic have free reign in Australia. Ask the people from overseas who have lost loved ones to this disease.

Also, in terms of "free and open society", there have always been periods in this country where "freedoms" have been curtailed for the greater good. Ask anyone, for example, who lived through rationing in WW2: which was a much worse curtailment of "freedom" but entirely necessary for the war effort. We are also on a war footing right now against this virus, and having temporary lockdowns etc is a small price to pay for victory in the battle.

I put the word "freedom" in inverted commas because this is basically an American idea and antithetical to what it means to be Australian. Being Australian is pulling through for your mates, not doing rubbish like refusing to wear masks because it impacts your "freedom". Or, even worse, refusing to be vaccinated because you see it as impinging on your "freedom". Mass vaccination is the *only* way we will win this war against covid.
 
Joined
12 Jan 2014
Messages
2,053
Likes
4,067
AFL Club
West Coast
#15
I really don't understand the Australian reaction to Covid.
At first they did way too little.
Now one person gets Covid, and they want to close the World down!!!
A positive case in the Northern suburbs of Perth should not even bring "should we cancel the football or not?" into the conversation!!!
A ridiculous knee jerk reaction!!!!
And that is exactly the attitude that got NSW a current two week lockdown and quite possibly longer.
 
Joined
19 Feb 2017
Messages
1,792
Likes
5,429
AFL Club
Brisbane
#16
I definitely agree with some of the sentiments here but I just wanted to point out I think we need a degree of sensitivity when talking responses to COVID outbreaks. The financial impacts to business and personal/mental health impacts of isolation are every bit as important as the lives saved from some of these actions, and each person impacted will see merits/issues depending on how they've been affected. (or is it effected, I can never remember!). There is no absolute "good" approach to managing a pandemic like this, so I think we just need to keep that in mind and not necessarily talk in absolutes or use charged language.

Not suggesting anyone here is mind you!

Anyway sorry if this is a little preachy - the vibes on this site are usually spot on but I just thought it was something important to consider.
The thing that's never properly considered is people's financial and living circumstances. Gladys said something about people not needing to feel like they to be concerned about money or something, but how- should they just manifest good vibes? Lockdowns can be endured for people who have some level of financial security, have a safe place to live, or have a place to live just in general. There's little attention paid to the needs of those who don't.

There's theoretically no reason governments can't provide these things at all times, let alone just through lockdowns. But government doesn't work that way here, and no one with any decision making power is capable of thinking differently. If they were, they would never have got to where they are.

Unfortunately the only opposition we get to covid responses here is from cranks and people who support the US model of forcing people to go out and get covid to save economy or something, as if 600k+ deaths isn't bad for the economy.
 
Joined
13 Apr 2012
Messages
5,033
Likes
9,437
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
#17
The thing that's never properly considered is people's financial and living circumstances. Gladys said something about people not needing to feel like they to be concerned about money or something, but how- should they just manifest good vibes? Lockdowns can be endured for people who have some level of financial security, have a safe place to live, or have a place to live just in general. There's little attention paid to the needs of those who don't.

There's theoretically no reason governments can't provide these things at all times, let alone just through lockdowns. But government doesn't work that way here, and no one with any decision making power is capable of thinking differently. If they were, they would never have got to where they are.

Unfortunately the only opposition we get to covid responses here is from cranks and people who support the US model of forcing people to go out and get covid to save economy or something, as if 600k+ deaths isn't bad for the economy.
It’s a bit of a morbid line of thinking but it depends who the 600k are. 450k of them are people past retiring age - those who add very little to economic production.
 
Joined
23 May 2013
Messages
9,447
Likes
13,543
AFL Club
Sydney
#18
There are much, much bigger impacts to letting a pandemic have free reign in Australia. Ask the people from overseas who have lost loved ones to this disease.

Also, in terms of "free and open society", there have always been periods in this country where "freedoms" have been curtailed for the greater good. Ask anyone, for example, who lived through rationing in WW2: which was a much worse curtailment of "freedom" but entirely necessary for the war effort. We are also on a war footing right now against this virus, and having temporary lockdowns etc is a small price to pay for victory in the battle.

I put the word "freedom" in inverted commas because this is basically an American idea and antithetical to what it means to be Australian. Being Australian is pulling through for your mates, not doing rubbish like refusing to wear masks because it impacts your "freedom". Or, even worse, refusing to be vaccinated because you see it as impinging on your "freedom". Mass vaccination is the *only* way we will win this war against covid.
Does “pulling through for your mates” mean ordering enough of a widely available vaccine in a timely manner, or just all forgiving someone for not doing their job?

Sorry, end rant. I just want to see my family again soon.
 

Rowsus

Statistician
Joined
19 Mar 2012
Messages
23,101
Likes
30,681
AFL Club
Melbourne
#20
My biggest problem with the each individual states approach to Covid, and Australia in general, is the aproach they are taking looks like they are trying to eradicate the disease. That's a nice ideal, but totally the wrong approach to take. The only way you will eradicate the disease is totally stop the movement of people not just in your region/state, but in the whole country. Think about that. No one is allowed to fly into the country, until it is eradicated ....... WORLD WIDE. Anyone flying out of the country has to stay out, until it is eradicated world wide.
The eradication approach is totally head in the sand, and impossible to achieve, unless you cease all movement of people into the country, and that includes ships bringing in good etc. Given how long it would take to eradicate it world wide, this is actually impossible.
The approach needs to be, how do we live with it, and best contain while we work towards high enough vaccination levels?
I'm not saying Denmark is anywhere near the pinnacle of the approach to Covid, but compare the approaches.
6 weeks ago Denmark was recording around 1,000 cases/day. Keep in mind, Denmark is the size of Tasmania, and has the population of Victoria. This had climbed fairly quickly over a 6-8 week period, from around 300-350/day. Denmark started vaccinating in December, but really didn't ramp it up until around 2 months ago. With less than 10% of people having had their first shot around 6-8 weeks ago, Denmark started opening things up more. You still needed masks pretty much everywhere indoors, unless you were seated, but shops etcwere back to normal. Remember, at this point they were getting 1000 new cases/day. Denmark now has 60% of people with their first shot, and 30% of people with both shots, and are now recording around 180-200 new cases/day.
One of the biggest things to look at is, when Denmark was getting 1000 new cases/day the number of people hospitalised stayed consistent at around 230, and the number of people on ventilators was consistently around 15-20. This is way less than it was 12 months earlier, when we were getting 300 new cases/day. We were handling it and treating better than 12 months ago.
Australia's vaccination process is pretty bad, but unfortunately, there are also a lot of people taking a "I will just wait and see" approach to the vaccination, which really isn't helping matter much.
Now, a lot of people will say "Yeah, but we're preventing deaths here!!! The lock downs and inconvenience is necessary to avoid stop people dying!".
I'm not trying to be heartless, just pragmatic. The large majority of Covid deaths are people that were already chronically ill or old.
The first Covid attributed death in Australia was in March 2020.
Since then there has been around 930 Deaths in Australia attributed to Covid.
In that same time around 1400 people have died in car accidents.
Do we stop people driving cars, to save lives? No, of course not.
Yes, Covid has the potential to get of control quickly. What I'm saying is, Australia needs to take a balanced approach. Stop trying to eradicate the disease, and learn to contain it, and live with it better! The approach at the moment seems to be if one person gets it, then 20 or 50 people WILL die, unless we lock everything down in a 500km, or sometimes in WA 1500km area!!!
The eradication approach cannot possibly work, so find a better path!
 
Top