Position Defenders Discussion

Which defenders will you be starting? (new poll 4/3/19)

  • Lloyd $608

    Votes: 33 22.9%
  • Laird $588

    Votes: 49 34.0%
  • Sicily $570

    Votes: 12 8.3%
  • Simpson $570

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • Whitfield $542

    Votes: 73 50.7%
  • Witherden $455

    Votes: 24 16.7%
  • Williams $408

    Votes: 110 76.4%
  • Newman $394

    Votes: 11 7.6%
  • Smith $333

    Votes: 68 47.2%
  • Roberton $298 or Hanley $296

    Votes: 36 25.0%

  • Total voters
    144

Yikes

Well-known member
Joined
26 Dec 2018
Messages
182
Likes
141
AFL Club
GWS Giants
Yeah he's on the watchlist for me! The DPP is super handy. According to FF, he played in defence in R1, R17, R19 and R20 for scores of 83, 68 (finger injury but played on), 91 and 22 (hammy injury in Q2). Small sample size, but 81 avg from those three games where he wasn't injured and played in defence.

Main thing to watch is if he is taking the number one forward every game with Howe and Dunn out possibly early. I think the Pies have guys like Roughead, Ben Reid, Mihocek so there a few other tall defenders who might get the job on a number one forward.
He playrd very little time down back in round 1 according to FAnfooty, was Full forward most of the times. And isn’t mihocek one of the scum’s best forwards??? Reid plays forward too doesn’t he
 

Bermi

Rising Star Winner
Joined
21 Jan 2016
Messages
1,499
Likes
1,868
AFL Club
Collingwood
He playrd very little time down back in round 1 according to FAnfooty, was Full forward most of the times. And isn’t mihocek one of the scum’s best forwards??? Reid plays forward too doesn’t he
The Pies have a lot of options in defence and they are not sure if Dunn will play Rd1. Moore is training with the defenders, so expect him to have a role down back. What concerns me is that can we trust his hammies?
 

pizza safety

Well-known member
Joined
15 Oct 2018
Messages
1,618
Likes
3,144
AFL Club
Essendon
Wow, that is quite a long list! Is Whitfield just pushed out by a plethora of cheaper options or do you not like him?

I have him, Witherden, Williams, Hanley, Collins and Moore/Burgess looping (Moore likely forward).

For what it's worth it appears Andrews has been spending some time recently training as a forward. I had him for quite some time but for me he has been surpassed by Witherden.

Also some talk that intercept marking might decline given the 6 6 6 rule.

Are you expecting most of those players to take kick ins?
Hanley is ballsy
 
Joined
6 Jan 2013
Messages
6,661
Likes
4,654
AFL Club
Melbourne
Wow, that is quite a long list! Is Whitfield just pushed out by a plethora of cheaper options or do you not like him?

I have him, Witherden, Williams, Hanley, Collins and Moore/Burgess looping (Moore likely forward).

For what it's worth it appears Andrews has been spending some time recently training as a forward. I had him for quite some time but for me he has been surpassed by Witherden.

Also some talk that intercept marking might decline given the 6 6 6 rule.

Are you expecting most of those players to take kick ins?
I like Whitfield as a pick and he has been in and out of my side. With my current setup I just can’t fit him in plus I’m happy with my current selections.

I’m not buying into the Andrews playing forward talk one little bit. He’s an absolute gun backman and I’m confident that’s where we’ll see him for almost 100% of the season.

Haven’t really factored in the new rules in defence as I don’t think they will increase or decrease a player’s SC scores by all that much tbh. Just basically think that some of the guys mentioned have a good chance of reaching premium status or returning to premium status.
 

Darkie

Moderator
Joined
12 Apr 2014
Messages
6,149
Likes
3,481
AFL Club
Collingwood
He's obviously an injury risk, although outside of that I don't see a lot of downside given he's priced at 55. GC are a weak side short on mids, so I expect he will get some mid time, and he appears to be taking some kick ins too.

Edit: I also don't mind having one mid pricer per line because it adds a fair bit of structural flexibility. Relatively easy to upgrade/downgrade if needed. I think that's advantageous generally, but maybe especially so in a year where the def uncertainty is greater than normal.
 

Darkie

Moderator
Joined
12 Apr 2014
Messages
6,149
Likes
3,481
AFL Club
Collingwood
I like Whitfield as a pick and he has been in and out of my side. With my current setup I just can’t fit him in plus I’m happy with my current selections.

I’m not buying into the Andrews playing forward talk one little bit. He’s an absolute gun backman and I’m confident that’s where we’ll see him for almost 100% of the season.

Haven’t really factored in the new rules in defence as I don’t think they will increase or decrease a player’s SC scores by all that much tbh. Just basically think that some of the guys mentioned have a good chance of reaching premium status or returning to premium status.
If you don't think he will play forward, and do think that the def scoring won't change much, then Andrews looks like a lock. Very durable pre getting knocked out by Cameron, averaged around 105 for a stretch last year, and is being encouraged by ***an to mark more rather than spoil.
 
Joined
6 Jan 2013
Messages
6,661
Likes
4,654
AFL Club
Melbourne
If you don't think he will play forward, and do think that the def scoring won't change much, then Andrews looks like a lock. Very durable pre getting knocked out by Cameron, averaged around 105 for a stretch last year, and is being encouraged by ***an to mark more rather than spoil.
Close to locked for me, mate. Hasn’t left my side since SC opened.
 

pizza safety

Well-known member
Joined
15 Oct 2018
Messages
1,618
Likes
3,144
AFL Club
Essendon
He's obviously an injury risk, although outside of that I don't see a lot of downside given he's priced at 55. GC are a weak side short on mids, so I expect he will get some mid time, and he appears to be taking some kick ins too.

Edit: I also don't mind having one mid pricer per line because it adds a fair bit of structural flexibility. Relatively easy to upgrade/downgrade if needed. I think that's advantageous generally, but maybe especially so in a year where the def uncertainty is greater than normal.
That might be true he is at a good price but not a great price if he gets injured, and you could be in some trouble. I’m gonna go 2 premiums and 2 mid priced players in defence I think but I don’t think I’ll be going for a stepping stone type unless there’s a cheap mid priced keeper somewhere else. Some teams finish top 1k with 2 midpricers others with 6 or 7 I suppose you just pick who you think will score well.
 

Darkie

Moderator
Joined
12 Apr 2014
Messages
6,149
Likes
3,481
AFL Club
Collingwood
That might be true he is at a good price but not a great price if he gets injured, and you could be in some trouble. I’m gonna go 2 premiums and 2 mid priced players in defence I think but I don’t think I’ll be going for a stepping stone type unless there’s a cheap mid priced keeper somewhere else. Some teams finish top 1k with 2 midpricers others with 6 or 7 I suppose you just pick who you think will score well.
At the moment I have quite a flexible setup with DPP as well (just posted it in the RMt thread, as it happens), so if Hanley got injured I could trade him to a def, mid, ruc or fwd. [It turns out I can get Mummy in by trading out any player on the field as well (Moore and Westhoff the keys).]

I think you're right in that there are many ways to skin a cat. Depending on where you draw the line, I have:

Intended cheap keepers: Wingard, Witherden, Williams

Outside chance keepers, likely stepping stones: Hanners, Hanley

Other mid-pricer: Moore

So I would probably argue I have 3, but some would call this up to 6.

Who are you looking at as your def mid pricers?
 

Ricky Bobby

Vice Captain
Joined
8 Jan 2014
Messages
5,205
Likes
2,064
AFL Club
Melbourne
Wow, that is quite a long list! Is Whitfield just pushed out by a plethora of cheaper options or do you not like him?

I have him, Witherden, Williams, Hanley, Collins and Moore/Burgess looping (Moore likely forward).

For what it's worth it appears Andrews has been spending some time recently training as a forward. I had him for quite some time but for me he has been surpassed by Witherden.

Also some talk that intercept marking might decline given the 6 6 6 rule.

Are you expecting most of those players to take kick ins?
Have you considered Brodie Smith at all? How would you compare him to Hanley ?
 

pizza safety

Well-known member
Joined
15 Oct 2018
Messages
1,618
Likes
3,144
AFL Club
Essendon
At the moment I have quite a flexible setup with DPP as well (just posted it in the RMt thread, as it happens), so if Hanley got injured I could trade him to a def, mid, ruc or fwd. [It turns out I can get Mummy in by trading out any player on the field as well (Moore and Westhoff the keys).]

I think you're right in that there are many ways to skin a cat. Depending on where you draw the line, I have:

Intended cheap keepers: Wingard, Witherden, Williams

Outside chance keepers, likely stepping stones: Hanners, Hanley

Other mid-pricer: Moore

So I would probably argue I have 3, but some would call this up to 6.

Who are you looking at as your def mid pricers?
Ok so you have a few exit strategies, which is good. I have the same intended keepers but prefer B Smith and Robertson to your other stepping stones. Hanners could tempt me in JLT but I reckon he’s a bit cooked.
 

Darkie

Moderator
Joined
12 Apr 2014
Messages
6,149
Likes
3,481
AFL Club
Collingwood
Have you considered Brodie Smith at all? How would you compare him to Hanley ?
In a normal year I think Hanley is the clear favourite. He's around $35k cheaper than Smith, and a significantly better scorer.

Smith had one good year five years ago and averaged 94. Other than that he has been a 75-82 player. [He averaged 88 last year but the sample size was only two games.]. Given the average SC player scores 75 (3,300/44), I think he's just not that good a scorer.

Hanley has had a lot of injury issues over the last two years (only played 13 and 3), but played every game in 2016 and averaged 87. Prior to that he averaged 87, 104, 96 and 91. So he's much closer to a proper premium in my view. Smith really isn't Supercoach relevant most years.

This year both have some incremental tailwinds, obviously the key one being price.

Smith looks a good chance to take kick ins and should score better if he does so, assumingnthe rest of his role remains the same or SC neutral. I'm not sure how they set up with Milera developing and Laird and Smith in the side as well, so maybe he loses a few points there, or maybe Adelaide just get better.

Hanley will be playing in a very weak GC side (plenty of ball down back), and appears to be taking some kick ins too. Miles was supposedly recruited because GC needed some bigger, hardened bodies in the midfield. and I wonder whether Hanley is part of that solution as well. He's about their third heaviest midfielder, and obviously quite experienced, and GC moved Lyons on as well ... so arguably they need more than one replacement if they want to improve their mid setup net net.

If Smith is taking kick ins in JLT and looks to have a favourable role, and Hanley doesn't, I could see myself switching, but at the moment Hanley looks the better bet to me with a better scoring record, lower price, and a role that could be at least as favourable.

Is Hanley someone you had considered previously, or more of a new option from your perspective?
 

Darkie

Moderator
Joined
12 Apr 2014
Messages
6,149
Likes
3,481
AFL Club
Collingwood
Ok so you have a few exit strategies, which is good. I have the same intended keepers but prefer B Smith and Robertson to your other stepping stones. Hanners could tempt me in JLT but I reckon he’s a bit cooked.
Yes, I think JLT will be key for all of these picks.

One good thing about each of our options is that there are viable potential replacements at similar prices (also including Miles, Libba etc), leaving structure unchanged if desired.
 

Ricky Bobby

Vice Captain
Joined
8 Jan 2014
Messages
5,205
Likes
2,064
AFL Club
Melbourne
In a normal year I think Hanley is the clear favourite. He's around $35k cheaper than Smith, and a significantly better scorer.

Smith had one good year five years ago and averaged 94. Other than that he has been a 75-82 player. [He averaged 88 last year but the sample size was only two games.]. Given the average SC player scores 75 (3,300/44), I think he's just not that good a scorer.

Hanley has had a lot of injury issues over the last two years (only played 13 and 3), but played every game in 2016 and averaged 87. Prior to that he averaged 87, 104, 96 and 91. So he's much closer to a proper premium in my view. Smith really isn't Supercoach relevant most years.

This year both have some incremental tailwinds, obviously the key one being price.

Smith looks a good chance to take kick ins and should score better if he does so, assumingnthe rest of his role remains the same or SC neutral. I'm not sure how they set up with Milera developing and Laird and Smith in the side as well, so maybe he loses a few points there, or maybe Adelaide just get better.

Hanley will be playing in a very weak GC side (plenty of ball down back), and appears to be taking some kick ins too. Miles was supposedly recruited because GC needed some bigger, hardened bodies in the midfield. and I wonder whether Hanley is part of that solution as well. He's about their third heaviest midfielder, and obviously quite experienced, and GC moved Lyons on as well ... so arguably they need more than one replacement if they want to improve their mid setup net net.

If Smith is taking kick ins in JLT and looks to have a favourable role, and Hanley doesn't, I could see myself switching, but at the moment Hanley looks the better bet to me with a better scoring record, lower price, and a role that could be at least as favourable.

Is Hanley someone you had considered previously, or more of a new option from your perspective?

Thanks for your thoughts Darkie. I hadn’t really even thought about Hanley until you mentioned some interest in him. I have liked him previously, but his injuries over the past few years have really put me off him. Having said that, I haven’t paid much attention to his current recovery and training form, so perhaps that has been a blind spot for me. I do like the fact that he is cheaper than Smith and if he really is fully recovered and fit then he may be a very viable option to look at during JLT. Thanks for bringing him to my attention.
 

BigRuss

Dual Best & Fairest
Joined
13 Apr 2012
Messages
3,824
Likes
2,623
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
That might be true he is at a good price but not a great price if he gets injured, and you could be in some trouble. I’m gonna go 2 premiums and 2 mid priced players in defence I think but I don’t think I’ll be going for a stepping stone type unless there’s a cheap mid priced keeper somewhere else. Some teams finish top 1k with 2 midpricers others with 6 or 7 I suppose you just pick who you think will score well.
I don’t mind the Hanley pick, I normally shy away from those types but there’s a bunch of mid pricers at the same price point this year. If he spuds it up or gets injured early I think it will be fairly easy to replace him in one trade through DPP with Roberton, Miles, Greene, Daniher, Hanners & Libba amongst others a like for like replacement.

He’s shown he can score well when fit but age and history has me leaning towards the others mentioned at this point. He feels a lot like the Daniel Wells pick in 16 or 17 whenever it was and he ended up being incredibly beneficial for those that started him.
 

KLo30

Moderator
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
8,203
Likes
3,978
AFL Club
North Melb.
Ok so you have a few exit strategies, which is good. I have the same intended keepers but prefer B Smith and Robertson to your other stepping stones. Hanners could tempt me in JLT but I reckon he’s a bit cooked.
Robertson is an interesting pick, what is it about him that you like? Role change, more mid time without Beams, kick ins?
 
Last edited:
Top