Position Defenders Discussion

Which defenders will you be starting? (new poll 4/3/19)

  • Lloyd $608

    Votes: 33 22.9%
  • Laird $588

    Votes: 49 34.0%
  • Sicily $570

    Votes: 12 8.3%
  • Simpson $570

    Votes: 2 1.4%
  • Whitfield $542

    Votes: 73 50.7%
  • Witherden $455

    Votes: 24 16.7%
  • Williams $408

    Votes: 110 76.4%
  • Newman $394

    Votes: 11 7.6%
  • Smith $333

    Votes: 68 47.2%
  • Roberton $298 or Hanley $296

    Votes: 36 25.0%

  • Total voters
    144

Bermi

Rising Star Winner
Joined
21 Jan 2016
Messages
1,318
Likes
1,466
AFL Club
Collingwood
#42
Might be going a year early, but of the three Crows defenders I think I'll gamble with Milera in my team.
I like Milera too, but do you think Smith returning will affect Milera's scoring?

Saturday, 28 July 2018
A long-term injury to Brodie Smith has opened an opportunity for Wayne Milera to thrive in Adelaide's half-back line.
Since being moved to half-back for the round five win against Sydney, Milera has had 20 or more disposals in five of his 11 games, the highlight a career-high 33 touches against Gold Coast in round six...……..
Lee Gaskin for AFL.com.au
 

Juzzo

400 Games Club
Joined
16 Jun 2013
Messages
2,513
Likes
1,073
AFL Club
Adelaide
#43
I like Milera too, but do you think Smith returning will affect Milera's scoring?

Saturday, 28 July 2018
A long-term injury to Brodie Smith has opened an opportunity for Wayne Milera to thrive in Adelaide's half-back line.
Since being moved to half-back for the round five win against Sydney, Milera has had 20 or more disposals in five of his 11 games, the highlight a career-high 33 touches against Gold Coast in round six...……..
Lee Gaskin for AFL.com.au
I suppose it depends how the crows want to use both players (stating obvious). But geez, Milera looked good last year especially in the last 9 games averaging 92 in those. Smith had a ton in round 21 and Milera 82. Time will tell, but if I had to choose I think as i said before I'd gamble with Milera. Could you have 3 Crow's defenders in your team?
 

Darkie

Vice Captain
Joined
12 Apr 2014
Messages
5,665
Likes
2,601
AFL Club
Collingwood
#44
I suppose it depends how the crows want to use both players (stating obvious). But geez, Milera looked good last year especially in the last 9 games averaging 92 in those. Smith had a ton in round 21 and Milera 82. Time will tell, but if I had to choose I think as i said before I'd gamble with Milera. Could you have 3 Crow's defenders in your team?
I’ve never been one to rule out this type of thing - the key issues as I see it would be:

- Can they all score well enough for you in one team, or are you happy to use three of them to hedge your bets, and perhaps even cut the one that doesn’t do well? It seems Milera and Smith may be competing for a favourable role to me, albeit I am far from a Crows expert!

- The bye. This is only an issue with three Adelaide players as much as three from different sides who share the bye ... but Adelaide also share their bye with Carlton (Simpson, maybe Newman), GWS (Whitfield, Williams) and GC (Hanley). Looks like the worst bye to load up on if you are unsure of a pick. Assuming you have interest in these players as starters/could see yourself switching into them, of course.
 

Juzzo

400 Games Club
Joined
16 Jun 2013
Messages
2,513
Likes
1,073
AFL Club
Adelaide
#45
I’ve never been one to rule out this type of thing - the key issues as I see it would be:

- Can they all score well enough for you in one team, or are you happy to use three of them to hedge your bets, and perhaps even cut the one that doesn’t do well? It seems Milera and Smith may be competing for a favourable role to me, albeit I am far from a Crows expert!

- The bye. This is only an issue with three Adelaide players as much as three from different sides who share the bye ... but Adelaide also share their bye with Carlton (Simpson, maybe Newman), GWS (Whitfield, Williams) and GC (Hanley). Looks like the worst bye to load up on if you are unsure of a pick. Assuming you have interest in these players as starters/could see yourself switching into them, of course.
I'll probably only start one crow defender, just putting it out there that all three could rank highly as defenders. Interesting theory about starting all three then dispose the one with the least favourale role though. I am a crows fan but no expert on them. Laird is pricey, so at this stage am thinking of Milera, from what I saw last year. :cool:
 

Darkie

Vice Captain
Joined
12 Apr 2014
Messages
5,665
Likes
2,601
AFL Club
Collingwood
#46
I'll probably only start one crow defender, just putting it out there that all three could rank highly as defenders. Interesting theory about starting all three then dispose the one with the least favourale role though. I am a crows fan but no expert on them. Laird is pricey, so at this stage am thinking of Milera, from what I saw last year. :cool:
Exactly. Three of the five top priced forwards (Danger, Hawkins, Mengola) are from the Cats, with Tim Kelly not too far behind (15th).
 

pizza safety

Well-known member
Joined
15 Oct 2018
Messages
1,084
Likes
1,783
AFL Club
Essendon
#48
Anyone have any thoughts on Luke Ryan from Freo as a sneaky pod down back?

Has a massive impact without having much of the ball due to precise kicking and intercept marking. Has big issues with consistency and only offers a small sample size and that probably means he doesn't justify his price properly but we have recently seen with Sicily that intercepting and precise kicking is perfectly suited to SuperCoach scoring. A 90 average from only 18 disposals per game is pretty phenomenal, he has a poor DT to SC scoring ratio but certain playing styles innately favour SC i.e. Danger, Robbie Gray, Howe, Sicily. Out of whack ratios can actually signify potential one way or the other as well as instability.

Call me crazy but I currently prefer him to Blakely. I have my reasons for not liking Blakely but on top of that I get a bad gut feel.

I don't have the courage to start Ryan but he could enter my team if one of Whitfield, Witherden or Williams goes down before the season begins. One to think about.
 

Bermi

Rising Star Winner
Joined
21 Jan 2016
Messages
1,318
Likes
1,466
AFL Club
Collingwood
#49
Anyone have any thoughts on Luke Ryan from Freo as a sneaky pod down back?

Has a massive impact without having much of the ball due to precise kicking and intercept marking. Has big issues with consistency and only offers a small sample size and that probably means he doesn't justify his price properly but we have recently seen with Sicily that intercepting and precise kicking is perfectly suited to SuperCoach scoring. A 90 average from only 18 disposals per game is pretty phenomenal, he has a poor DT to SC scoring ratio but certain playing styles innately favour SC i.e. Danger, Robbie Gray, Howe, Sicily. Out of whack ratios can actually signify potential one way or the other as well as instability.

Call me crazy but I currently prefer him to Blakely. I have my reasons for not liking Blakely but on top of that I get a bad gut feel.

I don't have the courage to start Ryan but he could enter my team if one of Whitfield, Witherden or Williams goes down before the season begins. One to think about.

Below, worth a read, you might be onto something here.

Ross Lyon has challenged emerging half-back Luke Ryan to become more damaging with his run from defence
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-08/lyon-challenges-emerging-defender-ryan-to-take-the-game-on
 

BlueNwhiteHoops

Well-known member
Joined
13 Dec 2018
Messages
447
Likes
646
AFL Club
Geelong
#50
Anyone have any thoughts on Luke Ryan from Freo as a sneaky pod down back?

Has a massive impact without having much of the ball due to precise kicking and intercept marking. Has big issues with consistency and only offers a small sample size and that probably means he doesn't justify his price properly but we have recently seen with Sicily that intercepting and precise kicking is perfectly suited to SuperCoach scoring. A 90 average from only 18 disposals per game is pretty phenomenal, he has a poor DT to SC scoring ratio but certain playing styles innately favour SC i.e. Danger, Robbie Gray, Howe, Sicily. Out of whack ratios can actually signify potential one way or the other as well as instability.

Call me crazy but I currently prefer him to Blakely. I have my reasons for not liking Blakely but on top of that I get a bad gut feel.

I don't have the courage to start Ryan but he could enter my team if one of Whitfield, Witherden or Williams goes down before the season begins. One to think about.
After news of Blakely's knee I am struggling to choose between Sicily and Ryan, both r12 bye so it will depend on whether or not I have the extra 100k for Sicily, Ryan already takes about half of Freos kick ins and I have read that Ryan is the one guy who springs to mind as a top kick out player who wanted to play on from the kick outs but often didn't, the new rules + his precise kicking and natural progression (only played like 37 games and goes 90 in his second afl season, low possies as mentioned, massive room for improvement imo) mean I see no downside at all unless his role changes, a good bet to start in my team.
 

Bermi

Rising Star Winner
Joined
21 Jan 2016
Messages
1,318
Likes
1,466
AFL Club
Collingwood
#51
After news of Blakely's knee I am struggling to choose between Sicily and Ryan, both r12 bye so it will depend on whether or not I have the extra 100k for Sicily, Ryan already takes about half of Freos kick ins and I have read that Ryan is the one guy who springs to mind as a top kick out player who wanted to play on from the kick outs but often didn't, the new rules + his precise kicking and natural progression (only played like 37 games and goes 90 in his second afl season, low possies as mentioned, massive room for improvement imo) mean I see no downside at all unless his role changes, a good bet to start in my team.
RE: …...….I see no downside at all...…….
One minor downside (for league games) could be his inconsistent scoring, it has been very high to low. Low gamers tend to be inconsistent and he only played 31 games, but that should sort itself out with more games played. Another possibility of inconsistent scoring is that he might of been getting attention from opposition players, as precise kickers do, I don't know?
 

pizza safety

Well-known member
Joined
15 Oct 2018
Messages
1,084
Likes
1,783
AFL Club
Essendon
#52
After news of Blakely's knee I am struggling to choose between Sicily and Ryan, both r12 bye so it will depend on whether or not I have the extra 100k for Sicily, Ryan already takes about half of Freos kick ins and I have read that Ryan is the one guy who springs to mind as a top kick out player who wanted to play on from the kick outs but often didn't, the new rules + his precise kicking and natural progression (only played like 37 games and goes 90 in his second afl season, low possies as mentioned, massive room for improvement imo) mean I see no downside at all unless his role changes, a good bet to start in my team.
He has a huge ceiling but I think he's also pretty inconsistent and that's a concern because you can end up with a very poor run of form because he just has that play in him. I would probably gamble on him if one my starters is out of round 1 but I think someone like Witherden has a decent ceiling without as much of a floor. Anyone had any thoughts on how not being able to put the spare back at centre bounces might impact the scores of loose intercept defenders like Howe and Sicily?
 

Connoisseur

Rising Star Winner
Joined
3 Jul 2017
Messages
1,594
Likes
3,388
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
#53
After news of Blakely's knee I am struggling to choose between Sicily and Ryan, both r12 bye so it will depend on whether or not I have the extra 100k for Sicily, Ryan already takes about half of Freos kick ins and I have read that Ryan is the one guy who springs to mind as a top kick out player who wanted to play on from the kick outs but often didn't, the new rules + his precise kicking and natural progression (only played like 37 games and goes 90 in his second afl season, low possies as mentioned, massive room for improvement imo) mean I see no downside at all unless his role changes, a good bet to start in my team.
RE: …...….I see no downside at all...…….
One minor downside (for league games) could be his inconsistent scoring, it has been very high to low. Low gamers tend to be inconsistent and he only played 31 games, but that should sort itself out with more games played. Another possibility of inconsistent scoring is that he might of been getting attention from opposition players, as precise kickers do, I don't know?
L Ryan- 2018 Averages:
Optus Stadium: 96.42 from 12 (6/12 below 100, 3/12 120+)
Interstate: 81 from 8 (7/8 below 100, 1/8 120+)
Optus Stadium Wins: 109 from 7 (2/7 below 100, 2/7 120+)
Optus Stadium Losses: 78.8 from 5 (4/5 below 100, 1/5 120+)
Wins: 106.38 from 8 (3/8 below 100, 2/8 120+)
Losses: 79.5 from 12 (10/12 below 100, 2/12 120+)
Pre Bye: 97.69 from 13 (7/13 below 100, 3/13 120+)
Post Bye: 76.43 from 7 (6/7 below 100, 1/7 120+)

Disposals: 18.1
SC Avg when disposals equal/exceed 19: 117.5 from 8 (low of 92 and a high of 140, 1/8 below 100, 4/8 120+)
SC Avg when disposals below 19: 72.08 from 12 (low of 47 and a high of 93)

Kicks: 13
SC Avg when kicks equal/exceed 13: 110 from 11 (low of 85 and a high of 140, 4/11 below 100, 4/11 120+)
SC Avg when kicks below 13: 66.11 from 9 (low of 47 and a high of 88)

Marks: 6.55
SC Avg when marks equal/exceed 7: 110.22 from 9 (low of 73 and a high of 140, 3/9 below 100, 4/9 120+)
SC Avg when marks below 7: 73.91 from 11 (low of 47 and a high of 114, 10/11 below 100)
 

Bomber18

Moderator
Joined
11 Nov 2012
Messages
13,558
Likes
4,691
AFL Club
Essendon
#54
There's just something about Fremantle defenders over the years that makes me think that we should avoid Ryan.

Blakely's a mid in my eyes so as long as he plays there he should be fine if fit
 

BlueNwhiteHoops

Well-known member
Joined
13 Dec 2018
Messages
447
Likes
646
AFL Club
Geelong
#55
RE: …...….I see no downside at all...…….
One minor downside (for league games) could be his inconsistent scoring, it has been very high to low. Low gamers tend to be inconsistent and he only played 31 games, but that should sort itself out with more games played. Another possibility of inconsistent scoring is that he might of been getting attention from opposition players, as precise kickers do, I don't know?
He has a huge ceiling but I think he's also pretty inconsistent and that's a concern because you can end up with a very poor run of form because he just has that play in him. I would probably gamble on him if one my starters is out of round 1 but I think someone like Witherden has a decent ceiling without as much of a floor. Anyone had any thoughts on how not being able to put the spare back at centre bounces might impact the scores of loose intercept defenders like Howe and Sicily?
I think the inconsistency can probably be put down to his inexperience (37 games), I don't have a clue though as to if he gets much opposition attention or not. At 18 average disposals per game i'd have thought he wouldn't be getting much at all but I could be wrong and that could change if he carries the ball more like Lyon has asked him. I'm assuming that's what the article meant when he said Lyon has asked him to find ways to become more attacking.

He already has a few things going for him that are SC gold. High ceiling, precise/efficient kicking, intercept marks and his inexperience/low disposal numbers mean there is massive room for improvement.
 

Connoisseur

Rising Star Winner
Joined
3 Jul 2017
Messages
1,594
Likes
3,388
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
#56
I think the inconsistency can probably be put down to his inexperience (37 games), I don't have a clue though as to if he gets much opposition attention or not. At 18 average disposals per game i'd have thought he wouldn't be getting much at all but I could be wrong and that could change if he carries the ball more like Lyon has asked him. I'm assuming that's what the article meant when he said Lyon has asked him to find ways to become more attacking.

He already has a few things going for him that are SC gold. High ceiling, precise/efficient kicking, intercept marks and his inexperience/low disposal numbers mean there is massive room for improvement.
More stats on L Ryan:
Averages 17.32 disposals across his current 31 game career:
SC avg when disposals equal/exceed 18: 110.38 from 13
Sc avg when disposals below 18: 67.5 from 18

SC Avg when disposals equal/exceed 15: 100.35 from 20
Sc Avg when disposals below 15: 58.45 from 11

Also here's an excerpt from an article about L Ryan:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-08/lyon-challenges-emerging-defender-ryan-to-take-the-game-on

"I had the exit interview (with Lyon) and what he wanted me to work on was a bit more run off half-back, which I've never really done over my career," Ryan told 6PR radio.
"More run and with the kick-ins, do a little bit more stuff we want to do and probably take the game on a bit more, which I'll have to learn how to do."
 

Bomber18

Moderator
Joined
11 Nov 2012
Messages
13,558
Likes
4,691
AFL Club
Essendon
#57
More stats on L Ryan:
Averages 17.32 disposals across his current 31 game career:
SC avg when disposals equal/exceed 18: 110.38 from 13
Sc avg when disposals below 18: 67.5 from 18

SC Avg when disposals equal/exceed 15: 100.35 from 20
Sc Avg when disposals below 15: 58.45 from 11

Also here's an excerpt from an article about L Ryan:
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2018-11-08/lyon-challenges-emerging-defender-ryan-to-take-the-game-on

"I had the exit interview (with Lyon) and what he wanted me to work on was a bit more run off half-back, which I've never really done over my career," Ryan told 6PR radio.
"More run and with the kick-ins, do a little bit more stuff we want to do and probably take the game on a bit more, which I'll have to learn how to do."
My main question is, can we trust Ross to leave him in that role for the season? That's usually been the issue with these freo defenders - their roles keep changing!
 

Connoisseur

Rising Star Winner
Joined
3 Jul 2017
Messages
1,594
Likes
3,388
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
#58
My main question is, can we trust Ross to leave him in that role for the season? That's usually been the issue with these freo defenders - their roles keep changing!
Looked like his role changed after the byes as he averaged 20 less than pre bye and only averaged 15.29 disposals post bye with 1 game over 15 disposals which could indicate that he was utilised more as a lock-down defender than an attacking rebounder. The more I look into the Ryan selection the more enticed I am in comparison to Blakely as the same concerns are present with Ross changing their roles and I think Ryan could be the safer option due to Blakely's injury history and potentially Brayshaw, Cerra, etc receiving more midfield minutes whereas Ryan should be the main distributor out of the backline.

In regards to trusting Ross, I don't think we ever can confidently.
 
Last edited:

Darkie

Vice Captain
Joined
12 Apr 2014
Messages
5,665
Likes
2,601
AFL Club
Collingwood
#59
Does Marcus Adams' move to Brisbane have an impact on their other def options?
 
Top