Position Defenders Discussion

Which defenders will you be starting? (new poll 4/3/19)

  • Lloyd $608

    Votes: 24 21.1%
  • Laird $588

    Votes: 42 36.8%
  • Sicily $570

    Votes: 9 7.9%
  • Simpson $570

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Whitfield $542

    Votes: 55 48.2%
  • Witherden $455

    Votes: 23 20.2%
  • Williams $408

    Votes: 89 78.1%
  • Newman $394

    Votes: 10 8.8%
  • Smith $333

    Votes: 53 46.5%
  • Roberton $298 or Hanley $296

    Votes: 36 31.6%

  • Total voters
    114
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Crisp seems a good consistent 90-100 scorer.

I’d favour him over Witherden if you have the spare 60k.
If Crisp cleaned up his disposal he could average 100 ppg imo. He has no problems in racking up a lot of the ball, gets alot of marks and is that line breaker/rebound 50 styled player that supercoach likes. He certainly has top 6 defender potential, he needs to get rid of those sub 20 possession games that leads to those 60 point games and stop butchering the ball so much. Pretty keen myself and would take him over Hurn for example in that price category. Is also at a good age to be able to continue in his natural improvement.

Has also played four seasons in a row of 22 games.
 
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As I have done some research on him this is what I found

His last full season he played 22 games at average of 82....but he had two injury affected scores, one being only 8% TOG so that gives him a nice bump into easily mid 80s
This isn't correct. Smith's lowest TOG percentage over those 22 games was 62% against Brisbane in Round 9.

Which two scores do you say were injury affected?
 

Hondo

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With my teams current incarnation I can only afford one of Duursma or Butters. Not really sure which one but right now it's Duursma not Butters simply based on price and DPP. Anyone care to push me in the correct direction?
I reckon you've got your cap too tight if you can't afford both. Assuming both are named they look like good scorers and that's what we want.

Rookies should be the priority over other choices in your side. Surely there is some price breaker trade you could make elsewhere? Even if you just parked the cash in cash you need whichever of Butters or Duursma you don't take and they look must haves.

I've gone in too tight on the cap once before and my season tanked partly because I was too cheap on the rookies to start, had no spare cap and so couldn't bring in the right rookies who were higher priced at correction time.
 
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Brodie Smith is a huge no for me.

Even if he stays injury free (which is another question mark in itself) he maxes out at an 80-85 average on previous form anyway which isn’t why you’d buy a 330k player.

The fact he is now competing with an elite Laird and up and comers like Milera and Doedee really pushes me away at that price. If he was 250k maybe but you want a fallen premium at 330k not a fallen 400-450k player.
 

stephen

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Brodie Smith is a huge no for me.

Even if he stays injury free (which is another question mark in itself) he maxes out at an 80-85 average on previous form anyway which isn’t why you’d buy a 330k player.

The fact he is now competing with an elite Laird and up and comers like Milera and Doedee really pushes me away at that price. If he was 250k maybe but you want a fallen premium at 330k not a fallen 400-450k player.
I felt the same pre-JLT but have found him in my side, due to a mixture of his looking fit and hungry, the seeming advantage of his taking kick-ins and also the way my things are shaking out meaning that a midpricer works well for me down back. I doubt he'll be a huge win but hopefully not a huge flop either.
 
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any updates on Birchall ?

Is Scrimshaw (if named) essentially taking his spot although with Burton leaving the whole back 6 setup probably changes again.

Obviously Birchall wasn't there last season.
 

Blue Dragons

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If Crisp cleaned up his disposal he could average 100 ppg imo. He has no problems in racking up a lot of the ball, gets alot of marks and is that line breaker/rebound 50 styled player that supercoach likes. He certainly has top 6 defender potential, he needs to get rid of those sub 20 possession games that leads to those 60 point games and stop butchering the ball so much. Pretty keen myself and would take him over Hurn for example in that price category. Is also at a good age to be able to continue in his natural improvement.

Has also played four seasons in a row of 22 games.
I had Crisp for most of last year. You are right about his possessions being key. I remember doing the stats on him and he averaged about 111 with 23+ disposals and 85 with 22 or less.

I don't think he butchers the ball though. He went at 77.2% disposal efficiency. Crisp and Langdon were the players in the top 10 at the club for both contested possessions and disposal efficiency. So he was beating out the likes of Pendles and Steele.

He was going to be one of my first picked defenders but then he had an interrupted preseason. After seeing him rack up the possies in JLT 2 though I am very tempted by him again.
 

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J Crisp:
2018:
Disposals: 23.23
SC Avg when disposals equal/exceed 24: 109 from 8 (low of 83 and a high of 128, 2/8 below 100, 1/8 120+)
SC Avg when disposals below 24: 88.21 from 14 (low of 64 and a high of 117, 10/14 below 100)
Marks: 5.05
SC Avg when marks equal/exceed 6: 113.13 from 8 (low of 97 and a high of 128, 1/8 below 100, 1/8 120+)
SC Avg when marks below 6: 85.86 from 14 (low of 64 and a high of 110, 11/14 below 100)

Disposal Efficiency: 76.32%
Contested Possession Rate: 34.87%

Avg with S Murray: 91.38 from 13 (8/13 below 100, 1/13 120+)
Avg without S Murray: 102.11 from 9 (1/9 below 90, 4/9 below 100, 0/9 120+)

S Murray suspended for 2019.
 
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J Crisp:
2018:
Disposals: 23.23
SC Avg when disposals equal/exceed 24: 109 from 8 (low of 83 and a high of 128, 2/8 below 100, 1/8 120+)
SC Avg when disposals below 24: 88.21 from 14 (low of 64 and a high of 117, 10/14 below 100)
Marks: 5.05
SC Avg when marks equal/exceed 6: 113.13 from 8 (low of 97 and a high of 128, 1/8 below 100, 1/8 120+)
SC Avg when marks below 6: 85.86 from 14 (low of 64 and a high of 110, 11/14 below 100)

Disposal Efficiency: 76.32%
Contested Possession Rate: 34.87%

Avg with S Murray: 91.38 from 13 (8/13 below 100, 1/13 120+)
Avg without S Murray: 102.11 from 9 (1/9 below 90, 4/9 below 100, 0/9 120+)

S Murray suspended for 2019.
Is there any other correlations to the scores with and without Murray?
 
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Outside of Lloyd, Laird and Whitfield are there any defenders between 410-580k that people are very bullish about?

It seems Witherden is in just about every team but based on what? He doesn’t score better in wins (expecting Brisbane to win more this year), he’s in his 3rd year yes but nothing seems to jump out of the page (didn’t finish the year off super strong, didn’t have a high ceiling of scores) that points to anything other than be a consistent 85-95 scorer.

Although he has been in my team quite a bit, its only because I can’t bring myself to put in Brodie Smith as a mid pricer and can’t seem to find anyone else I like outside of Williams between 300-570k.


Sicily has a huge ceiling but is already quite expensive and there is some uncertainty that he may be swung forward at times.

Hurn seems as consistent as they come and should benefit from the kick out rules with a play on and thumping long kick getting them to the centre circle basically. However, he is getting on in age and was last year a spike year with a fairly decent increase in fantasy as well as sc?

Crisp appeals for consistency but again looks to be a 90-95 scorer and doesn’t have the high ceilings either.

Ryan scores extremely variable at home/away and I’m not even confident he’ll be having the kick in duties with Wilson there anyway. He plays lock down half the time and seems allergic to 1%ers or intercept marks which is a worry at his price.

Andrews has been rumoured to be swung forward as well with no prior form of scoring as a forward and all of his high defensive scores based around 1%ers and intercept marks.



Anyone else fancy players in that 300-570k bracket outside of Whitfield and Williams??

Brodie Smith shouldn’t even be in my calculations but there are just not many other viable options.
 

Nathan

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Outside of Lloyd, Laird and Whitfield are there any defenders between 410-580k that people are very bullish about?

It seems Witherden is in just about every team but based on what? He doesn’t score better in wins (expecting Brisbane to win more this year), he’s in his 3rd year yes but nothing seems to jump out of the page (didn’t finish the year off super strong, didn’t have a high ceiling of scores) that points to anything other than be a consistent 85-95 scorer.

Although he has been in my team quite a bit, its only because I can’t bring myself to put in Brodie Smith as a mid pricer and can’t seem to find anyone else I like outside of Williams between 300-570k.


Sicily has a huge ceiling but is already quite expensive and there is some uncertainty that he may be swung forward at times.

Hurn seems as consistent as they come and should benefit from the kick out rules with a play on and thumping long kick getting them to the centre circle basically. However, he is getting on in age and was last year a spike year with a fairly decent increase in fantasy as well as sc?

Crisp appeals for consistency but again looks to be a 90-95 scorer and doesn’t have the high ceilings either.

Ryan scores extremely variable at home/away and I’m not even confident he’ll be having the kick in duties with Wilson there anyway. He plays lock down half the time and seems allergic to 1%ers or intercept marks which is a worry at his price.

Andrews has been rumoured to be swung forward as well with no prior form of scoring as a forward and all of his high defensive scores based around 1%ers and intercept marks.



Anyone else fancy players in that 300-570k bracket outside of Whitfield and Williams??

Brodie Smith shouldn’t even be in my calculations but there are just not many other viable options.
I have the most confidence in Sicily of the Defenders..Ye he could be swung forward but he could also kick a bag.

Has kick-in upside with Burton gone.
 
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Outside of Lloyd, Laird and Whitfield are there any defenders between 410-580k that people are very bullish about?

It seems Witherden is in just about every team but based on what? He doesn’t score better in wins (expecting Brisbane to win more this year), he’s in his 3rd year yes but nothing seems to jump out of the page (didn’t finish the year off super strong, didn’t have a high ceiling of scores) that points to anything other than be a consistent 85-95 scorer.

Although he has been in my team quite a bit, its only because I can’t bring myself to put in Brodie Smith as a mid pricer and can’t seem to find anyone else I like outside of Williams between 300-570k.


Sicily has a huge ceiling but is already quite expensive and there is some uncertainty that he may be swung forward at times.

Hurn seems as consistent as they come and should benefit from the kick out rules with a play on and thumping long kick getting them to the centre circle basically. However, he is getting on in age and was last year a spike year with a fairly decent increase in fantasy as well as sc?

Crisp appeals for consistency but again looks to be a 90-95 scorer and doesn’t have the high ceilings either.

Ryan scores extremely variable at home/away and I’m not even confident he’ll be having the kick in duties with Wilson there anyway. He plays lock down half the time and seems allergic to 1%ers or intercept marks which is a worry at his price.

Andrews has been rumoured to be swung forward as well with no prior form of scoring as a forward and all of his high defensive scores based around 1%ers and intercept marks.



Anyone else fancy players in that 300-570k bracket outside of Whitfield and Williams??

Brodie Smith shouldn’t even be in my calculations but there are just not many other viable options.
Have you looked into Whitfield & Williams + 6 ?

Big IF but Collins , Scrimshaw , Clark , Duursma (Hore , Burgess ) even Joyce & McKay could be warm bodies on the bench.

2-3 of them could dissapear after 2-3 games but no different to 3-4 mid rookies that many people are keen on.

Think we just need to build our sides around the rookies and may have to take the likes of Smith , Rocky , Libba , Greene , Moore etc.

I am starting to think of leaving some money in the bank to start just in case the rookies fall over early.

Probably different attitude to many here but I can't see GnR being viable , think we need to accept that we may not be able to afford our high end premiums from the start.

As for Witherden check out how Bailey affects him.

As for Smith he might be the best available for 6-8 weeks until it becomes clearer if the new rules do affect the likes of Lloyd , Laird , Sicily , Simpson etc or if indeed there are a new wave of premium defenders coming through.

Just my opinion of course.
 
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Have you looked into Whitfield & Williams + 6 ?

Big IF but Collins , Scrimshaw , Clark , Duursma (Hore , Burgess ) even Joyce & McKay could be warm bodies on the bench.

2-3 of them could dissapear after 2-3 games but no different to 3-4 mid rookies that many people are keen on.

Think we just need to build our sides around the rookies and may have to take the likes of Smith , Rocky , Libba , Greene , Moore etc.

I am starting to think of leaving some money in the bank to start just in case the rookies fall over early.

Probably different attitude to many here but I can't see GnR being viable , think we need to accept that we may not be able to afford our high end premiums from the start.

As for Witherden check out how Bailey affects him.

As for Smith he might be the best available for 6-8 weeks until it becomes clearer if the new rules do affect the likes of Lloyd , Laird , Sicily , Simpson etc or if indeed there are a new wave of premium defenders coming through.

Just my opinion of course.
I looked at Witherden playing with Bailey and not seeing the correlation?

83.55 in games together (excluding Witherden 14sc injury game) in 10 games.

90.36 without Bailey in 11 games.
 
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Brodie Smith is a huge no for me.

Even if he stays injury free (which is another question mark in itself) he maxes out at an 80-85 average on previous form anyway which isn’t why you’d buy a 330k player.

The fact he is now competing with an elite Laird and up and comers like Milera and Doedee really pushes me away at that price. If he was 250k maybe but you want a fallen premium at 330k not a fallen 400-450k player.
I felt the same pre-JLT but have found him in my side, due to a mixture of his looking fit and hungry, the seeming advantage of his taking kick-ins and also the way my things are shaking out meaning that a midpricer works well for me down back. I doubt he'll be a huge win but hopefully not a huge flop either.
I couldn't have summed up my own thoughts better.
 
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I looked at Witherden playing with Bailey and not seeing the correlation?

83.55 in games together (excluding Witherden 14sc injury game) in 10 games.

90.36 without Bailey in 11 games.
Bailey has only had his new role since Rd 22 last season and I think Witherden missed , he played it in both JLT games.
 
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