Grand Final: Teams, Predictions & In Game Discussion

[GrainFedBeef]

like I said to lavenderbandit yesterday so if Gold Coast and GWS ever finish highest ranked people would be happy playing the Grand Final at Metricon or Showgrounds ?

Geelong should host the Grand Final at Kardinia Park ?

Besides most of these interstate sides decided to join the VFL.

Maybe if other cities had stadiums with 90,000+ capacity they could move it around similar to the NFL.

MCG average 53,608 for 45 H & A games.

Perth Stadium 46,893 from 23 H & A games.

Gabba 17,377 from 12 H & A.

Docklands 28,704 from 45 H & A.

maybe we need smaller , boutique stadiums

Why not Herbie, why not have interstate finals. Don't judge by capacity, GWS ground is significantly better ground to watch football than SCG.

I just laugh as if it was Collingwood travelling after being on top, McGuire would be shouting from the top of the hill how unfair it is. Complains everytime something small doesn't go Pies way but yet no comment on this.

Shouldn't be allowed in the media with such a conflict of interest.

Good Luck Herbie. Expect Adams/Treloar to shine, Sidebottom to get 30 disposal and more attention and Cox not to run as rampant. Howe and Crisp to do well and Goldsacks light will be dim. Should be a cracking game, will nerves and Vic weight of expectations on Pies get to them.

HeraldSun, home paper of the AFL is putting up front pages of daring to dream all Vic final shows they don't yet understand its a National competition.

Based on stadium data above, MCG ran one of the lowest occupancy % all year resulting in poorer audience experience games as stadium felt more empty - what a disaster - tear it down! lol.

 

[THCLT]

Winner: West Coast Eagles by 23
Norm Smith: McGovern
Most goals: Darling
Most disposals: Adams

 

[AngryAnt]

Why not Herbie, why not have interstate finals. Don't judge by capacity, GWS ground is significantly better ground to watch football than SCG.

I just laugh as if it was Collingwood travelling after being on top, McGuire would be shouting from the top of the hill how unfair it is. Complains everytime something small doesn't go Pies way but yet no comment on this.

Shouldn't be allowed in the media with such a conflict of interest.

Good Luck Herbie. Expect Adams/Treloar to shine, Sidebottom to get 30 disposal and more attention and Cox not to run as rampant. Howe and Crisp to do well and Goldsacks light will be dim. Should be a cracking game, will nerves and Vic weight of expectations on Pies get to them.

HeraldSun, home paper of the AFL is putting up front pages of daring to dream all Vic final shows they don't yet understand its a National competition.

Based on stadium data above, MCG ran one of the lowest occupancy % all year resulting in poorer audience experience games as stadium felt more empty - what a disaster - tear it down! lol.

Front page today claims that Collingwood are "carrying the hopes of our state". Pigs arse they are, I'm hoping for the Eagles to crush them as i'd imagine are most of the neutrals in Victoria.

 

[GrainFedBeef]

Front page today claims that Collingwood are "carrying the hopes of our state". Pigs arse they are, I'm hoping for the Eagles to crush them as i'd imagine are most of the neutrals in Victoria.

ha ha yeah, hoping the neutrals may barrack for the Eagles, lesser of the evils. Once Eddie starts talking this week, hopefully sentiment swings more our way. We also have a Rioli (played with one and Maurice was my coach one year when he came back to Perth, what a family).

Will tip my hat though to Eddie as President, backed Bucks in when many called for his head and deserves credit for that.

Both clubs done well attracting players from other clubs (Jetta, Yeo, Redden/Adams, Treloar, Varcoe) and blooding new players this year (Venables, Ryan, Rioli, Michock, Sier etc).

 

[Herbie66]

Why not Herbie, why not have interstate finals. Don't judge by capacity, GWS ground is significantly better ground to watch football than SCG.

I just laugh as if it was Collingwood travelling after being on top, McGuire would be shouting from the top of the hill how unfair it is. Complains everytime something small doesn't go Pies way but yet no comment on this.

Shouldn't be allowed in the media with such a conflict of interest.

Good Luck Herbie. Expect Adams/Treloar to shine, Sidebottom to get 30 disposal and more attention and Cox not to run as rampant. Howe and Crisp to do well and Goldsacks light will be dim. Should be a cracking game, will nerves and Vic weight of expectations on Pies get to them.

HeraldSun, home paper of the AFL is putting up front pages of daring to dream all Vic final shows they don't yet understand its a National competition.

Based on stadium data above, MCG ran one of the lowest occupancy % all year resulting in poorer audience experience games as stadium felt more empty - what a disaster - tear it down! lol.

wow

short term memory loss , didn't WCE just have 2 home finals , Swans had 1 as well.

All for Geelong hosting home finals as well.

Think the contract is in place to 2057 so after that who cares , I doubt I will be alive.

Yeah the list of ground averages is quite amazing , especially compared to members lists , why are members not attending ?

The rest of Victoria will never support Collingwood.

As for Eddie I won't comment.

Think Hutchins will go to Sidey , so hope he brings his running legs.


We need to run , run , run and run some more.

Think we will bring in one of Moore or Reid , although forecast is 70% showers and 13.

WCE play a very good brand , should be favourites , travel 11 times a year so that can't be a issue now

Still can't believe how Eddie lets us travel to Etihad , the people's club should be at the G for every game

Good luck

 

[jaca]

Fascinated by the conversation around Victorians supporting Collingwood.

My Essendon supporting Victorian mate says most of Victoria will support Collingwood. Dees, Doggies and others I would understand... but surely not Collingwood?

Hopefully it’s a great final, would rather not see a repeat of either of this weekends games.

 

[couchPOTATO]

like I said to lavenderbandit yesterday so if Gold Coast and GWS ever finish highest ranked people would be happy playing the Grand Final at Metricon or Showgrounds ?

Geelong should host the Grand Final at Kardinia Park ?

Besides most of these interstate sides decided to join the VFL.

Maybe if other cities had stadiums with 90,000+ capacity they could move it around similar to the NFL.

@Herbie66 - I appreciate and mostly agree with your support of the MCG for GF's but the SuperBowl has been played in stadiums of 67-75k plenty of times. Are you saying it should be played in the USA's biggest stadium each and every year ?

By following the NFL precedent Perth Stadium and Stadium Australia should be hosting a few GF's per decade between them.

https://www.footballdb.com/seasons/super-bowls.html

 

[Herbie66]

@Herbie66 - I appreciate and mostly agree with your support of the MCG for GF's but the SuperBowl has been played in stadiums of 67-75k plenty of times. Are you saying it should be played in the USA's biggest stadium each and every year ?

By following the NFL precedent Perth Stadium and Stadium Australia should be hosting a few GF's per decade between them.

https://www.footballdb.com/seasons/super-bowls.html

Not at all , works well for the NFL so they should keep doing it.

Interesting when you look at the table of average crowds per venue.

The fact is the MCG is the only stadium we have that can host 90,000 + crowds.

I am sure the GF would still be an amazing event at Metricon , Kardinia Park etc.

We don't have the population base to support these 60,0000 + on a regular basis.

Maybe the solution is not to have finals at all , and first past the post is the winner , oh wait people will then complain about the unequal draw.
.
.

 

[Herbie66]

Average Crowds for Venue in 2018

https://afltables.com/afl/crowds/2018.html

sorry have no idea how to insert tables

interestingly only 9 H & A games attracted a crowd of 60,000.00 +

 

[Herbie66]

Fascinated by the conversation around Victorians supporting Collingwood.

My Essendon supporting Victorian mate says most of Victoria will support Collingwood. Dees, Doggies and others I would understand... but surely not Collingwood?

Hopefully it’s a great final, would rather not see a repeat of either of this weekends games.

The more that are against us the better, no way Carlton, Essendon or Richmond supporters will support us, it is black and white, only love or hate, nothing in between

 

[IDIG]

Fascinated by the conversation around Victorians supporting Collingwood.

My Essendon supporting Victorian mate says most of Victoria will support Collingwood. Dees, Doggies and others I would understand... but surely not Collingwood?

Hopefully it’s a great final, would rather not see a repeat of either of this weekends games.

It is interesting isn't it. Seems us Vics (well i still am at heart) are Vics first before Collingwood haters. I guess it stems back to the State of Origin days that a lot of us grew up passionately following.

My best mate's a Pies man and we have a good old sledge every Anzac day but seeing the GF is against WC, i'll be supporting the pies and him. Although, had it been Richmond v WC, i probably would've gone for WC so there goes that logic.

 

[Herbie66]

@Herbie66 - I appreciate and mostly agree with your support of the MCG for GF's but the SuperBowl has been played in stadiums of 67-75k plenty of times. Are you saying it should be played in the USA's biggest stadium each and every year ?

By following the NFL precedent Perth Stadium and Stadium Australia should be hosting a few GF's per decade between them.

https://www.footballdb.com/seasons/super-bowls.html

Stadium Australia hosted 44 H & A games between 2002 - 2016 average crowd 40,4033 10 Finals average 44,372.......where is the 67-75 k coming from ?

 

[Herbie66]

Anyway, i’ll be cheering on West Coast.

even after the 2006 Grand Final ?

disaapointed in you Jaca

 

[Herbie66]

I would be interested to know how many games were sold out and hypothetically how many more you get could get in if the capacity permitted. 80 odd thousand crows members from memory.

I still await the day when all the members want to see the same game, and Stadim Management says their is no capacity for all of them, they will tear it down.

 

[Herbie66]

@Herbie66 - I appreciate and mostly agree with your support of the MCG for GF's but the SuperBowl has been played in stadiums of 67-75k plenty of times. Are you saying it should be played in the USA's biggest stadium each and every year ?

By following the NFL precedent Perth Stadium and Stadium Australia should be hosting a few GF's per decade between them.

https://www.footballdb.com/seasons/super-bowls.html

The average attendance of a Super Bowl game has been 77,987 over the past 47 games so only can be held at the G or Stadium Australia, all our other Stadiums are too small, so I vote we move the Grand Final permanently to Sydney and when the Swans next play or The Ginats debut it will have to be back in Melbourne problem solved

Perth needs to add some more seats to their new stadium

 

[GrainFedBeef]

It is interesting isn't it. Seems us Vics (well i still am at heart) are Vics first before Collingwood haters. I guess it stems back to the State of Origin days that a lot of us grew up passionately following.

My best mate's a Pies man and we have a good old sledge every Anzac day but seeing the GF is against WC, i'll be supporting the pies and him. Although, had it been Richmond v WC, i probably would've gone for WC so there goes that logic.

where is the boo icon when you need it! lol

Think we all like to see different premiers each year. Need to think hard about your Victorian support. If Pies win, all those Collingwood supporters around you will be in unbearable, If West Coast win, they are mostly on the other side of the country.

 

[Lost In The Sky]

like I said to lavenderbandit yesterday so if Gold Coast and GWS ever finish highest ranked people would be happy playing the Grand Final at Metricon or Showgrounds ?

Geelong should host the Grand Final at Kardinia Park ?

Besides most of these interstate sides decided to join the VFL.

Maybe if other cities had stadiums with 90,000+ capacity they could move it around similar to the NFL.

Sorry mate, But if GWS or Gold Coast ever finished highest ranked... They would fully deserve a home Grand Final.

Geelong if they finished highest ranked would also deserve to host the Grand Final at Kardinia Park.

The highest ranked team should always host the Grand Final. Unless an arrangement like the NFL was to be in place where the GF rotated cities. We are the only sport in the world that has this backward system that disadvantages the higher ranked teams.

The AFL is now a National competition not a Victorian competition with teams from most states. The days of the VFL are long gone and what I see in comments like yours such as "most of these interstate sides decided to join the VFL" is a naive and antiquated mindset of people who hang on to the past and don't have the ability to move on.

The VFL where desperate for cash in the late 80's, thus the decision to open the VFL up to interstate teams like both Brisbane & West Coast to join, and take then a massive unprecedented lisence fee from both teams to Prop up the VFL's financial state.

The old antiquated mindset of "Only the MCG can host the GF because no other ground can hold 90,000+" is a poor and outdated argument from people who struggle to come up with a justified reason as to why things should stay the same.

Each competing club can only get up to 20,000 tickets for the grand final... They are the only real fans who matter.

30.000 tickets are corporate... so no big loss if they where to go, 26,000 are MCC members, so no great loss there either. They don't deserve the right to go to every GF. The rest are either AFL members or Medallion Club members which is also no great loss. The Non-competing AFL clubs also have a small allocation of tickets which is fair and should be kept.

I'd much rather see a crowd made up of passionate fans from both competing sides than a crowd full of corporate's.

You can't honestly tell me that the game would be worse off with with 30,000 less corporates in attendance... The game would be so much better with more passionate fans from both competing sides.

 

[Lost In The Sky]

Winner: West Coast by 23
Norm Smith: Yeo with Redden close behind him.
Most goals: JK
Most disposals: Yeo

 

[Herbie66]

Sorry mate, But if GWS or Gold Coast ever finished highest ranked... They would fully deserve a home Grand Final.

Geelong if they finished highest ranked would also deserve to host the Grand Final at Kardinia Park.

The highest ranked team should always host the Grand Final. Unless an arrangement like the NFL was to be in place where the GF rotated cities. We are the only sport in the world that has this backward system that disadvantages the higher ranked teams.

The AFL is now a National competition not a Victorian competition with teams from most states. The days of the VFL are long gone and what I see in comments like yours such as "most of these interstate sides decided to join the VFL" is a naive and antiquated mindset of people who hang on to the past and don't have the ability to move on.

The VFL where desperate for cash in the late 80's, thus the decision to open the VFL up to interstate teams like both Brisbane & West Coast to join, and take then a massive unprecedented lisence fee from both teams to Prop up the VFL's financial state.

The old antiquated mindset of "Only the MCG can host the GF because no other ground can hold 90,000+" is a poor and outdated argument from people who struggle to come up with a justified reason as to why things should stay the same.

Each competing club can only get up to 20,000 tickets for the grand final... They are the only real fans who matter.

30.000 tickets are corporate... so no big loss if they where to go, 26,000 are MCC members, so no great loss there either. They don't deserve the right to go to every GF. The rest are either AFL members or Medallion Club members which is also no great loss. The Non-competing AFL clubs also have a small allocation of tickets which is fair and should be kept.

I'd much rather see a crowd made up of passionate fans from both competing sides than a crowd full of corporate's.

You can't honestly tell me that the game would be worse off with with 30,000 less corporates in attendance... The game would be so much better with more passionate fans from both competing sides.

Fully agree re the crowd issue at the G for Grand Final, half the people that are there don't even care, should be for the fans, that is why Anzac Day is a fantastic atmosphere.

Think Jay is a lawyer so he might be able to contact the AFL and find out how to get out of the contract that states the GF is to be played at the G until 2057, after that I will be dead so won't really care about it all then.

Yep must be old and antiquated, been pioneering a 17 round (or 34 round) season now for years but then the clubs will whinge and say we wan't 2 showdowns, 2 derbies and we want to play the big Melbourne Clubs at the G and get $$$.

Maybe a 3 conference system of 6 teams each is the way to go (play each other in your conference H & A) then the other teams once = 22 games

Anyway the GF is locked in at the G, fairly or unfairly, and their aint' anything me , you or anyone else can do it about it.

Good luck on Saturday

 

[Herbie66]

Venue Capacity
The venue hosting the Grand Final must be able to seat not just members of the clubs, but also key stakeholders, contractual obligations and sponsors as well as AFL and MCC members. Without the club members themselves, the ground must be able to hold a minimum 38,500 people according to the AFL seating arrangements. This alone is enough to rule out Geelong, Gold Coast and GWS from hosting a grand final even without their fans in attendance; creating inequality across the league as these sides would have to find a different venue should they earn the right to host the game. The only venue that can accommodate more than 10,000 fans per team in attendance with these restrictions is the MCG; which the AFL allocates up to 17,500 fans for each participating club, almost double the maximum amount that the next largest AFL venue is able to house.

Revenue
This is not just league officials giving themselves a handy pay day for a job well done, the generated revenue from grand final day goes directly back to the players and clubs. Linking in with capacity, if AFL members and contractual obligations were not offered seats to the game, than the leagues revenue would vastly diminish. Additionally, if more people are attending the game it appears more marketable. Therefore, more sponsors will want to be involved in the event and as a by-product the game itself. This is the most watched game of the league season and the larger ground of the MCG makes the product appear more valuable than Spotless or Skilled Stadium would be able to. This not only maximises profit from ticket sales; but would increase the sponsorship opportunities of the league, allowing it to grow and seeing all clubs benefited.

Certainty
The certainty of playing at the MCG gives the AFL plenty of time to plan. With the Grand Final at the MCG the AFL can organise the fixtures to ensure that each team is able to experience the venue before finals. The AFL, however, cannot fixture every team to every venue year in year out ensuring each team has experience there before finals. This gives every team the opportunity to experience the venue before finals as well as keeping the fixtures as equal as possible for all clubs. Additionally, planning the pre-game and half time entertainment without a set venue will be extremely difficult for the AFL. If the venue was undetermined the league would have to ensure all venues are available to them before the season starts. With this uncertainty of whether venues will be accessible and which venue will be used, organising high end entertainment will be extremely difficult. Should the league only know one week before the grand final where the event will be held, requesting guest appearances from global entertainers will mostly be disregarded due to a lack of organisation.

Top Teams can win anywhere
Much of the argument for the Grand Final moving away from the MCG is the disadvantage of interstate sides. As much as fans may not like to hear it, regardless of advantage good teams can win anywhere. Since the competition went fully national in 1986, interstate sides have won 8 of the 14 Grand Finals against Victorian teams with 3 of the 6 losses in the last 3 years. As much as people complain about the Hawks premiership last year, they had to qualify for it on the road and if the Eagles were at premiership standard they certainly would not have lost by 10 goals. With clubs such as the Bulldogs and Kangaroos having played on the MCG less than some interstate sides since 2012, the ground is not an automatic advantage for Victorian sides. Sides such as Brisbane (2001-2004), West Coast (1991-1994 and 2005-2006) and Adelaide (1997-1998) are proof that the very best teams will win the premiership, regardless of where the Grand Final is played.

In spite of any of these arguments for or arguments against, the Grand Final will remain at the MCG until 2037. Perhaps if the national venues grow and develop rapidly enough the competition may be ready for a travelling Grand Final. However, until then the Grand Final will remain at the MCG to the pleasure of some and dismay of others.