Discussion High Rankings vs. Low Rankings - What did you do differently?

sgt5

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#1
I've noticed that when people include their yearly rankings in their signature, they often vary wildly - 22nd one year and 12,000th another year, for example. I was wondering what you all think went right in the years you did well and wrong in the years you did not so well. What do you all think was the biggest cause of your success in good years and your biggest problem in the not so good years?
 

IDIG

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#2
Great thread idea sgt5.

I've only ever had the one real good year. Other years, I've managed to get into the top 1k at some stage to eventually fade badly late.

Ironically, the year I went well I went straight bat, full cookie cutter with my starting team and didn't really take any risks. While it was by far the closest I've ever been to winning, I didn't really enjoy SuperCoach that year. I get more enjoyment out of backing my research and gut and going someone a little less obvious who I think will breakout or represents value (Jordie Lewis last year for example).

I probably need to find a bit of a balance tbh which I am aim to do this year.
 

Bomber18

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#3
Great thread idea! I'll add my experiences.

I think in my case, when I haven't gone well, it's when I"ve A) been stubborn about certain players and have not traded them in despite them being some of the key selections of the season and also B) messed up my rucks. In some years, I also had personal hurdles which compounded my poor starts & led to me essentially somewhat "giving up".

For examples, in 2015, I had a rank of ~20k & never recovered from getting Buddy instead of Goldy & avoiding Shaw due to his poor games record. To a lesser extent, I didn't have Bont either. It was also a tough year for me personally which didn't help. In 2014 I finished well but started very poorly due to failing my ruck selections. I started McEvoy then traded him into Mummy who missed games. I also remained stubborn and did not jump on Tom Mitchell. I somewhat recovered by jumping on Rocky at the end but damage was already done due to the rucks. In 2011, I remained stubborn for some reason and didn't have Ablett or Pendles (I have no idea what I was thinking, I was still an inexperienced coach). 2012, I can't remember what happened but it probably wasn't very good.

Usually when I've done well, it's because I've nailed my rucks & traded well. Last year I nearly started Tippett or Blicavs at R2, but thank god I came to my senses and picked Gawn! Hopefully I get it right this season too. I did remain stubborn on a few selections like Boyd, Simmo, Parker & Zorko, but I had Zerrett, Shaw & Gawn which helped me finish respectably but not super high.

This year I'm going to remain open to all selections & try not develop a bias to certain players.
 
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bomberboy

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#4
Honestly, I think my good year boiled down to 3 things - taking it more 'seriously', this forum, and understanding the game. That and picking Gawn and Parker at the start.

I have a sneaking suspicion that nailing your rucks is what makes or breaks your season. Trading in the rucks is usually a disaster, and I nailed my rucks, only having to use 1 trade there for the year (NicNat to Goldy).

In the past I've always traded with my heart, and not really understood it (or school got in the way). Last year I traded with my head, and the results followed. This year I'm hoping to take everything I learnt last year and apply it again!
 
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#5
Damn good question. This is my perspective.

Most of us pick 12-13 keepers to begin with, a few specs. and playing JS rookies to begin with.

Where does it succeed or derail from there; injuries to premiums

I cannot stress how important our trades are. LTI injuries to premiums makes a big difference to our trade bank. This really hurts or can be a god send if you haven't got him. Hold your keepers.

Get in every possible money making rookie as the season goes by, this is the single most important rule to get your 22 keepers.

When upgrading, is he a player I want in my final squad.

I try to address the above, but it does not answer your question.

It requires a fair bit of luck, do you go for player A or B either as an upgrade or a new rookie.

LTI injuries to premiums.

Failed or successful mid pricers/ spec players
.
A good decision is one you are happy with based on your research.

Doesn't always work, hence some weeks, blocks of weeks, years are great or not so.

My 2c
 
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Beg2Differ

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#6
I hardly feel qualified to comment given I have never had what I would call a high finish (best of 1137) however what has cost me higher finishes is a slow starts due to poor “premium” selections in my starting team. The cost of this in terms of points and dollars is almost impossible to recover from.

Last year I selected Stef Martin and Michael Barlow as what I thought were reasonably reliable starting options (fail) and Sam Gray and Callum Sinclair as speculative/break-out contenders (fail). Throw on top of that you share of bad luck (which you can’t hope to predict) like Fyfe (injured r5); Sidebottom (suspended r1); Rockliff (injured r2) and your high overall ambitions are shot.

I also think it is very important to have your share of the right rookies in your starting team but historically have a better record here and I think a little easier to recover from a few bad picks.

I will be very interested in this thread so I hope it gets some traction. I will be particularly interested to hear from those consistent top 1000 performers.
 

freowho

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#7
I've noticed that when people include their yearly rankings in their signature, they often vary wildly - 22nd one year and 12,000th another year, for example. I was wondering what you all think went right in the years you did well and wrong in the years you did not so well. What do you all think was the biggest cause of your success in good years and your biggest problem in the not so good years?
Good question which I asked myself a couple of years ago. I worked out that if I had made 3 different decisions at the start of the year I would have finished inside the top 1000 instead of near 10,000th. There are certainly coaches that keep finding a way of finishing near the top but despite there being 814 players most of the 200'000 odd coaches are choosing from the same 40 or 50 players so the margins are small.
 

MC's Mix

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#8
I agree with Courtesans, the years I have performed better I have had a solid core of premiums that have carried me through, avoiding the speculative mid-price picks that typically fail early on. Last year Libba was the player that I purposefully avoided, and though he went ok, I was still (mostly) comfortable in NOT having him. Yeo on the other hand... My excuse for last year was the overwhelming number of premiums I had to sideways trade, which didn't allow me to complete my team as early as I'd have liked... Looking at my trade history, 13 of my trades were sideways! :rolleyes:

This year there are the likes of Sandilands, Rough, Bennell, Swallow, Beams & JOM (amongst many others) who will tempt most players at some stage. Not sure which as yet, though I plan to only have one/two of them if I can help it!
 

Nathan

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#9
Same problem for me every year, I run out of trades and my ranking blows out in last couple of weeks.
 

Philzsay

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#10
Personally:

1. 20 trades verses 30 trades. I took less risks when there was 20 trades, the conservative approach helped me climb rankings at the business end when everyone was getting donuts etc.

2. Information is much greater now, meaning less of an advantage. Plus I used to watch a lot more footy so I knew all of the players better than I do now.

3. Injuries to Premiums between rounds 7 to 12ish. These really kill you, especially if you have to trade them out. Firstly you lose a bit of money on them, your trade count goes down, but most important is the opportunity loss as it delays the time to get your team fully upgraded. Those who have less injuries get to a full team faster, move further ahead, and even when you do get to a full team you can never catch up.
 

sven_inc

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#11
Ill add my 2c if its not too annoying.

This will sound a little too obvious, but the two biggest issues ive noticed that define my seasons tend to be

a) making bad initial squad choices. I tend to end up whittling down my initial selections to very few that suit what i like to pick. I just make the wrong choices some years. Failed premo, failed midpricer. Hindsight is huge here for me. I always look back and see who I genuinely decided not to pick. Unfortunately last year was Gawn.

b) when Ive traded throughout the year ive brought in duds and missed the important ones. Last year was Merrett. Was on my radar very early on but didnt pull the trigger. Did in DT without a worry in the world.

Im personally really happy when injuries strike as it shakes things up, but obviously you need a smooth runnat it to be right at the very top fighting it out IMO.

When ive been on point with both things tend to run smoothly at least for me
 

Seymour Skinner

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#12
I've noticed that when people include their yearly rankings in their signature, they often vary wildly - 22nd one year and 12,000th another year, for example. I was wondering what you all think went right in the years you did well and wrong in the years you did not so well. What do you all think was the biggest cause of your success in good years and your biggest problem in the not so good years?
Cover and trading hard are the keys IMO. Don't let the byes dictate your starting structure/premos, but make sure you take it into account when you start trading. A lot of luck helps too!

My team last year wasn't anything different to what I usually run with structure-wise. Jumped on ZMerrett and Docherty pretty early which gave me an edge. Also didn't stuff up any E-loopholes this year :p
30 trades makes it easier to justify risky picks, I used 4 corrective trades in in the first 4 rounds: Rocky > Libba, Gresham > Hewett on week, then Wines > Danger and Hewett (lol) > Hartley via Dan Rich DPP.
then used 6+ more trades throughout the year on injury sideways moves. Gaz, Hall, Fyfe, Davis, Adams, McPherson etc when I didn't have ample cover and would of copped a 0 if I didn't trade.
Got lucky with stuff like when Zorko missed a week randomly during the byes, I was planning on trading him in that week too. All the Doggies backmen died and made starting Boyd a very good pick after a slightly slow start. Holding Wells through his injuries and having him on the bench when he scored 61 when coming back from injury. Sam Collins also saved my arse a few times, that kid is a jet.

Had a few things go wrong too; a ruck donut due to picking Goetz over Cox at the start of the year, also meant I missed out on getting Danger's 229 as a captain. Using my second last trade to get Hall in as an M9/F7 swing man only to have him break down that round, used my last trade to get him out for Boomer Harvey who was a real rollercoaster at the end of the year, all the while holding Deledio on my bench due to sentimental reasons.
And then there was the week where Ruggles got "dropped", I had no cover so I used my saved up cash to turn him straight into Gibson who scored 59, Ruggles was a late in the next day and scored 60 :mad:

In 2015 I was bliiiindbags and forgot to check/change my team for the last round, had a dud C choice and copped 2 donuts that could of easily been avoided and made my ranking balloon out a fair bit.
 

Darkie

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#13
Excellent thread idea, and thanks to everyone who has shared their experiences.

I need to spread the rep.
 

30BucketsofRo

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#14
Haven't cracked top 5000 yet but I plan on doing so this year.

Having started playing this game when I was 16 years old, I'd say I took a lot more risks when I was younger. I feel like I was more optimistic than I should've been with potential break-out players and failed more times than not trying to start with such a player. A big part of this was 2012, my first real go at SC and I started with Danger who went on to average 118. It's an addictive feeling when you pick a break-out player, especially as a younger person (bragging rights over your mates). Also, my trading was a lot more brazen - looking to take that left-field pick instead of taking the more obvious choice. Who dares wins, right? However, I now see the importance of having the correct balance between risk/safety in your decision-making process.

I also feel like I placed too much emphasis on the starting team and trying to get it right vs trading properly. I often started seasons well but my trading - tying in with what I mentioned before about being brazen - was poor. Having a good starting team is an advantage but as mentioned by others, trades are golden and from what I've seen - trading is the difference between the higher ranked coaches and the rest. Trading in the right players at the right time and moving on your rookies are so important.

Lastly, you need luck - especially with injuries. You can try to mitigate this by picking players who have proven to be durable but even then, luck makes all the difference. For example, a decisive factor in starting Houli for me last year was his durability over his career. He got injured in round 7 and missed a big chunk of the season = unplanned trade as he was meant to be a keeper. You also need luck in those final few rounds in terms of your POD's going big. Think the 2016 winner bought in Riewoltd for the last round and he went on to bang out 189 to win the comp from 6th place.
 

PC

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#15
Great thread idea and have really enjoyed reading some insightful thoughts :)

If my ranking trend can be trusted, and I think it can, I am on track for about 11k overall this season :rolleyes:

Honestly, rollercoaster city! That said, I think I can explain some of the ups and downs over the years.

2013 - first year of SC, I knew nothing. I knew I knew nothing and didn't really expect a whole lot. I had Max Bailey (super player) at R2!!! Of course, my goal in my first year was to learn heaps, and that I did - particularly from the brilliant folks at SCS.

2014
- was 'Supercoach serious' in my second year playing. Hit the start squad spot on (from memory), traded ok, but not super great and then got lucky with enough bench depth to cover a nasty end of the year.

2015
- third year blues? Actually, I know exactly where I stuffed up - rd 5 I was in the top 1000. That round I traded in Boak instead of Danger...game over. Lost a lot of interest as my season fell apart, in what was a pretty shocking year for a few funnily enough.

2016
- start squad very good, trading was spot on, got lucky with injuries both in my team and not in my team, saved trades, didn't mess up too many C or E choices or loops. Best result ever - start of the season was aiming for top 3k...

Honestly, I would love to repeat last year but the odds are against me. There are many good players out there and there is plenty of information on just about anything SC. The margins are so close that it only needs one stuff up and you are slip sliding away to rave :mad: in the rant thread. Still, that is what we play it for right? If it wasn't a challenge... ;)
 

Dimmawit

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#16
Lots of really intetesting comments - a great thread idea.

Overall I share all the main comments in my own experience.

Starting team isn't everything but it does matter. I picked both J.Lonegran and T.Sheridan last year (and Leuy - what a mess!) and didn't correct quick enough (where to start!). This led to Domino's falling elsewhere in my trades ie doing risky moves to catch up, or die trying, or simply having more trades to make to upgrade them. You can start behind the eight ball but there's a point

Injuries and cover - no doubt about that. To win it all there'll be a week where someone misses and your E gets a 120. These things are lucky but you need to have a cover there capable of doing that to be in that position at all.

One thing I've noticed is that I "think" way more about my selections these days. It's harder to just go with my gut in some ways for a number of reasons. This year I'll be trying to be more instinctive. Certainly in the last few years I've tended more towards players I 'like' if it's 40:60 as well

More so though I'm an all or nothing kind of player. Come Rd 12 if I'm struggling I'm definitely the type to look for the hail Mary trade and these can be rewarding or very damaging - particularly if you've had a poor start like I did last year. There wasn't a way back really but I tried to my team's ultimate deteiment.

Thinking it through I think the last point has been the biggest swing factor for me. My mindset and discipline through the year. A good start and a steady head versus chasing tail and going too risky with my trades. That second part is part of my nature though and arguably the reason I won (in that year) so it's probably the way I'll continue to play. For me that perhaps places a large degree of importance on my starting squad. This year I'll be avoiding JLonegran types like the bloody plague!!
 

aps1

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#17
Interesting read.

Nothing new to really add, a solid starting team plays a part. setting a solid foundation. Failed mid-pricers in your team hurt, which is just magnified if that mid-pricer is a POD. You have both a points loss and an opportunity cost while you deal with that player (can put you an upgrade behind other coaches).

For me, the ability to efficiently trade through the year is main difference between a low and high ranking, correcting mistakes quickly, identifying breakout players vs players on a hot-streak, picking players about to go on a hot streak, and smart trading (buy low/sell high). Feel that you can be more creative and take more risks with trades than with starting team as you have more information and can therefore make better decisions.

The other area is team management, nailing the VC/C selections, on-field rookies and loop-holes. This is part luck/part research and backing your calls.

Last year, I made a couple of poor decisions where I aggressively tried to raise cash early in the season, which led to a few issues at the back-end of the season. Was also slow in identifying breakout players, and coupled with the lack of funds, having to settle for sub-premium selections which ultimately cost points. (Was ~ 500 mid-season, slipping to 900 and then losing 200 spots in the last week).
 

IDIG

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#18
I've said it before and I'll say it again but we are a blessed bunch here at SCS. To get this level of insight from a previous winner and arguably the best non-winner SC has seen is just so valuable at this stage of the year.
 

mvdi

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#19
Playing in cash leagues you get to a point where overall becomes irrelevant and I start to trade based on weekly matchups. If I don't look like winning I'll just refuse to trade, injuries aside.
 

sgt5

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#20
I guess since I started this I should contribute some thoughts. I think my highest ranking was about 1500 or something and my lowest is somewhere south of 20,000. It seems like every year I make a major mistake at some point.

When I first played Supercoach I had no idea -- so my starting team was really bad. OK, I thought - lesson learned. Next year I'll do some serious research and make a really good starting team.

And I did, but I had no idea how to trade, so my great start faded pretty quickly. OK, fine -- lesson learned. Next year I'll only trade in really good players.

And I did, but I ran out of money pretty quick because I wasn't paying any attention to how much I was paying for those really good players. OK, no problem - lesson learned. Next year I'll pay attention to breakeven's and price fluctuations and get those good players at a discount price.

And I did, but I did too many trades too early in the season and ran out of steam at the end. OK - lesson learned. Don't waste trades!

But the next year I discovered that sticking to a don't waste trades mantra is about as easy as sticking to a don't eat chocolate mantra. It's kind of rather difficult to actually do, no matter how much you know you should. I didn't have a decent strategy for the byes either and totally messed them up. OK -- lesson learned. I need more mental fortitude!

But the next year I went overseas in the middle of the year and missed a chunk of the season -- so, yeah - life intervenes sometimes.

Maybe it was because of my year of not being able to take it seriously, or maybe it was just a serious brain fade, but last year I got the brilliant idea to try a totally new strategy. Let's just say, the less said about that the better.

So, this year... I've learned my lessons. Here's what I'm going to do... After much research I will select an amazingly good team with all the right rookies, premiums who actually play like premiums and absolutely no players who are definitely, certainly going to play midfield and score in the stratosphere this year even though they only averaged 65 last year. I will show amazing restraint and not succumb to those "correction trades" that are based on a total of two games of data, or those "new strategy" trades that cause me to plummet like a lead anchor down the rankings. And when I do trade it will be to downgrade to rookies on the bubble who will immediately make me $100K at least and upgrade to premiums who stubbed their toe after playing only two minutes of a game, causing their price to plummet even though the team doctor has now announced that they are in fact A OK to play and it's really just a minor bruise and not a broken foot. And I will have a brilliant bye strategy worked out well in advance that actually works the way it's supposed to.

So, what could go wrong?
 
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