Position Midfielders Discussion

[BigRuss]

His scoring is very dependent on the team's performance. Since 2015 Bontempelli has averaged 113.41 from 46 wins with 15/46 below 100 and 23/46 120+ in comparison to an average of 94.76 from 37 losses with 23/37 below 100 and 7/37 120+.

I’m very wary of dogs players this season. I think teams with worse than average clearance numbers and limited KPP stocks will be hurt hardest by the rule changes as it removes the +1 behind the ball at centre bounces.

Without looking at the numbers I’d wager the dogs fit the bill in both categories. If the Bonts scoring is dependant on the dogs success as a team, I’d be wary of picking him in 2019.

 

[IDIG]

The other thing that comes to mind with Bont is that a couple of years back he managed to win quite a few games off his own boot. I recall at the time there were 2 differing views on if this was a good thing or a bad thing; one group did not believe it could be sustainable (him winning games so often) and the others were of the belief that when the game is to be won, that's when the stars step up and he could continue to do it.

I guess with the dogs having a down year it's hard to know if he would've been able to but because there's such a discrepancy between wins/losses he's a firm no for me. Had he been a forward though, that would've been a completely different story.

 

[freowho]

I’m very wary of dogs players this season. I think teams with worse than average clearance numbers and limited KPP stocks will be hurt hardest by the rule changes as it removes the +1 behind the ball at centre bounces.

Without looking at the numbers I’d wager the dogs fit the bill in both categories. If the Bonts scoring is dependant on the dogs success as a team, I’d be wary of picking him in 2019.

This made me think of Tom Lynch but Richmond were second worst for clearances in 2018. But third best for centre clearances where the rule would apply. Although there isn't a massive difference between all the teams and there are many statisticians who will tell you ball movement trumps clearances for influencing a game.
All players benefit from being near the ball and if Bont is a mid that floats forward the Doggies would have to go better than last year for him to improve. I think that is a couple of years away.
They might start awarding points for contributions away from the ball. Ben Dixon always joked he was the best decoy forward in the game.

 

[All is Wells]

Pretty keen on Bont for a few reasons
- Still only 23 so in the zone for a 110+ breakout year after 4 years between 103-107. Only missed 5 games in last 4 years
- The last 3 games of the season he had his 3 highest possession games of the year. Could be learning to find the ball more or Beveridge realised to leave him in the middle
- Supercoach love child. Has averaged around 4.3 points per touch over the last 4 years which is elite compared to most mids. If he bumps his average touches up to 26-27 can definitely see a 115+ year. Had 7 games where he found the ball 24 times or more. Averaged 127 in these games with all but 1 of these being 120+ scores and 3 of them being losses.
- Don't know how the knew rules or Libbas return will affect him but at this stage he's in my side as my 5th midfielder but also weighing up Oliver, Merrett and a few others for the same spot

 

[Leroy]

Pretty keen on Bont for a few reasons
- Still only 23 so in the zone for a 110+ breakout year after 4 years between 103-107. Only missed 5 games in last 4 years
- The last 3 games of the season he had his 3 highest possession games of the year. Could be learning to find the ball more or Beveridge realised to leave him in the middle
- Supercoach love child. Has averaged around 4.3 points per touch over the last 4 years which is elite compared to most mids. If he bumps his average touches up to 26-27 can definitely see a 115+ year. Had 7 games where he found the ball 24 times or more. Averaged 127 in these games with all but 1 of these being 120+ scores and 3 of them being losses.
- Don't know how the knew rules or Libbas return will affect him but at this stage he's in my side as my 5th midfielder but also weighing up Oliver, Merrett and a few others for the same spot

Can see the upside for sure, but there were times last season when I was watching his games and considering bringing him in only to find he was parked at FF. Not floating into the forward line from midfield but sitting deep inside 50 waiting for a ball that never came while Macrae ran around getting 40+ touches or whatever it was. He will always have big games; he will probably even have 4 or 5 in a row at some point; but then Bevo will realise he doesn't have a forward line and Bont will get stuck with a 70. The "coach" risk factor is too high for me on this one.

 

[freowho]

"Another Jack finished the year in flying form. Jack Steele (MID, $685,000) averaged a career-high 94.4 for the season but like Billings, dominated post-bye with an average of 109. Embracing his role as a run-with player, Steele laid 7.5 tackles per game in the run home to help boost his Fantasy numbers."
This is from the AFL website regarding AFL fantasy but the comment about Steele being a run with player caught my attention. Can a run with player score enough to be a midfield keeper?

 

[Bermi]

"Another Jack finished the year in flying form. Jack Steele (MID, $685,000) averaged a career-high 94.4 for the season but like Billings, dominated post-bye with an average of 109. Embracing his role as a run-with player, Steele laid 7.5 tackles per game in the run home to help boost his Fantasy numbers."
This is from the AFL website regarding AFL fantasy but the comment about Steele being a run with player caught my attention. Can a run with player score enough to be a midfield keeper?

I was looking at Harmes, who has a run-with role too and his scores improved after the Bye as well.
The good players take the run-with players to the action, so that increases their chances of getting the ball or increases their chances to tackle.
But run-with players seem to have inconsistent scoring, so I doubt if they can score well enough to be a Mid keeper.

Demon's James Harmes after the Bye:
RD - SC Pts
14 55
15 122
16 99
17 49
18 44
19 82
20 114
21 107
22 118
23 115

 

[Presto]

"Another Jack finished the year in flying form. Jack Steele (MID, $685,000) averaged a career-high 94.4 for the season but like Billings, dominated post-bye with an average of 109. Embracing his role as a run-with player, Steele laid 7.5 tackles per game in the run home to help boost his Fantasy numbers."
This is from the AFL website regarding AFL fantasy but the comment about Steele being a run with player caught my attention. Can a run with player score enough to be a midfield keeper?

In SC Jack Steele (MID, $512,600) averaged a career-high 94.4 for the season but dominated post-bye with an average of 111.8 (104, 81, 144, 89, 81, 118, 128, 121, 140) Embracing his role as a run-with player, Steele laid 7.5 tackles per game in the run home to help boost his SC numbers"
But he did the same in 2017 ending the year on 91.1 average with a 94.4 average after the bye.
Funny thing is that S.Ross had similar improvements in 2017 and 2018. Maybe they both have more stamina then most.

 

[freowho]

In SC Jack Steele (MID, $512,600) averaged a career-high 94.4 for the season but dominated post-bye with an average of 111.8 (104, 81, 144, 89, 81, 118, 128, 121, 140) Embracing his role as a run-with player, Steele laid 7.5 tackles per game in the run home to help boost his SC numbers"
But he did the same in 2017 ending the year on 91.1 average with a 94.4 average after the bye.
Funny thing is that S.Ross had similar improvements in 2017 and 2018. Maybe they both have more stamina then most.

It's like StKilda smother their players with tactics during the preseason and after the first half of the year has gone pear shaped they then just tell them to go out and play! It will be interesting to see if Brett Ratten can change things for them.

 

[IDIG]

Does anyone know if Zorko spent more time forward last year or was the drop purely due to being tagged more often?

2016: 106 DT / 109 SC
2017: 114 / 111
2018: 97 / 96

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Does anyone know if Zorko spent more time forward last year or was the drop purely due to being tagged more often?

2016: 106 DT / 109 SC
2017: 114 / 111
2018: 97 / 96

My first thoughts are that surely it was the tag

 

[Darkie]

Does anyone know if Zorko spent more time forward last year or was the drop purely due to being tagged more often?

2016: 106 DT / 109 SC
2017: 114 / 111
2018: 97 / 96

Same as RB for me. His goals and behinds per game were both down, inside 50s the same and R50s only down a bit.

I think he was probably just horrific when tagged early on. I actually don't mind him (or Zerrett) as a pick as they're durable, established premiums who seem to have suffered massively with tags early on, but worked through them later in the year.

I'm guessing Shiel helps Zerrett more than (+Neale/-Beams) helps Zorko though.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-brisbane-lions--dayne-zorko

 

[Leroy]

Does anyone know if Zorko spent more time forward last year or was the drop purely due to being tagged more often?

2016: 106 DT / 109 SC
2017: 114 / 111
2018: 97 / 96

Two 30s and a 40 in his first 6 from the tag saw his price plummet 170k and tanked his average.

From there he went at 107 for the rest of the season (16 matches).

22 games @ 107 would make you a top 8 MID last season and 11th overall for total points. Given he's missed only 4 games in 6 years definitely one to think about.

 

[Manikato1]

I was looking at Harmes, who has a run-with role too and his scores improved after the Bye as well.
The good players take the run-with players to the action, so that increases their chances of getting the ball or increases their chances to tackle.
But run-with players seem to have inconsistent scoring, so I doubt if they can score well enough to be a Mid keeper.

Demon's James Harmes after the Bye:
RD - SC Pts
14 55
15 122
16 99
17 49
18 44
19 82
20 114
21 107
22 118
23 115

I agree with this. The run with role tends to vary greatly depending on the mid the run with player is sticking with. If it just run with then scoring is okay. If it is lock him down scoring can suffer. I think some younger players with potential are given run with roles to learn how to be a midfielder. Their average rises because they get drawn into the play but I think there is a cap to their scoring playing that role. Purely IMO.

 

[Manikato1]

Two 30s and a 40 in his first 6 from the tag saw his price plummet 170k and tanked his average.

From there he went at 107 for the rest of the season (16 matches).

22 games @ 107 would make you a top 8 MID last season and 11th overall for total points. Given he's missed only 4 games in 6 years definitely one to think about.

And will Neale now get the tag that perhaps Zorko was getting? Even if you knew the tag worked on Zorko giving Neale a free swing at it would seem silly and I doubt both would get a hard tag. I know Beams has left but not sure if he was tagged much when at the Lions.

 

[Connoisseur]

Will be very interesting to see how L Neale performs at the Lions and if he can maintain a 30+ disposal avg and a Time on Ground% exceeding 80% as it is integral for him to avg 110.

2015: 76.96% TOG, Disposals: 27.42, SC Avg: 104.3 from 22
2016: 81.64% TOG, Disposals: 33.5, SC Avg: 112.6 from 22
2017: 77.62% TOG, Disposals; 27.24, SC Avg: 109 from 21
2018: 80.18% TOG, Disposals: 30.32, SC Avg: 111.9 from 22

 

[IDIG]

Not good.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1075295576441286661

 

[Bermi]

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2018/12/19/saints-assistant-clarifies-hannebery-injury-scare/

St Kilda assistant coach Aaron Hamill has moved to allay fears surrounding Dan Hannebery’s injury setback.
Hannebery, 27, was sent for scans after suffering hamstring tightness following a heavy training ………..Hamill says the Saints erred on the side of caution...……..“Like most clubs, if there’s anything that’s sort of lingering there, we just want to make sure that there’s not severe damage, so he was sent off to get a scan and came back all clear.
“That’s what happens with a lot of players, particular in pre-season, you keep pushing the envelope".
"There’s nothing too sinister in it, it’s a slight awareness and he’ll be fine.”

 

[HotShame]

Surprised not more are on him..

 

[BigRuss]

Surprised not more are on him..

Think he’ll gain popularity as we get closer to the season. If someone like Touk Miller can average 88 in that side, as vanilla as he is, I feel very confident Miles will push 100, especially after Dews comments about him leading the midfield. Absolute no brain selection as far as I’m concerned. Even if he averages low 90s he’ll make his 150k well and truly by the time their bye rolls around.