Position Midfielders Discussion

Which midfielders will you be starting? New poll 4/3/19

  • Macrae $690k

    Votes: 71 47.7%
  • Cripps $648k

    Votes: 133 89.3%
  • Oliver $623k

    Votes: 84 56.4%
  • Fyfe $618k

    Votes: 61 40.9%
  • Kelly $618k

    Votes: 14 9.4%
  • Neale $607k

    Votes: 45 30.2%
  • Dusty $564k

    Votes: 41 27.5%
  • B Crouch $418k

    Votes: 51 34.2%
  • Libba $300k

    Votes: 45 30.2%
  • Walsh $207k

    Votes: 103 69.1%

  • Total voters
    149

Lgndhen23

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I’m stuck, I’m in a bit of a pickle

I really want Fyfe in my team however, I would need to downgrade either Grundy + Libba, Libba + Ridley +Moore
I also have sheed but have decided to lock him in and not change, see his 110 average this season

Trust me sheed is the way
 

GrainFedBeef

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I’m stuck, I’m in a bit of a pickle

I really want Fyfe in my team however, I would need to downgrade either Grundy + Libba, Libba + Ridley +Moore
I also have sheed but have decided to lock him in and not change, see his 110 average this season

Trust me sheed is the way
Hope so on Sheed, just not last two games of H&A he didn't do as well and that was without Gaff. Yeo and Gaff didn't do much in JLT2, not sure we have seen how much it is about role for sheeds and needing pure mid time.
 
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I think the fact this scenario is being talked about as a horror outcome is a good example of how unnecessarily frightened people are of midpricers. If Rockliff scores at 80, it costs you a trade. Nothing more. Meanwhile he scores to his price and you have lost no ground (value-wise) on teams who have bought 500k players going at 100. You trade him out when the opportunity arises. Sometimes you go quickly because a breakout show up and you want to jump on. Quite often the opportunity is a premo who has thrown in a bad score and is suddenly <500k, and being able to get them easily is actually a blessing. You have lost a trade, and it's a bummer. But it's not a big deal.
Exactly. The latter point is underrated in particular. Rocky simply holding his value is a win in the scenario that Macrae, for example, falls in value. Starting Rocky gives the ability to aggressively bring someone, like Macrae, in more immediately than a guns and rookies approach would allow - hence the stepping stone idea. The goal is to get to full premo ASAP.

Given Rockliff is not a captain option, he is in effect the same as a 500k player scoring at their average (like a Heeney for example). Completely agree.
 

quite ironic

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Exactly. The latter point is underrated in particular. Rocky simply holding his value is a win in the scenario that Macrae, for example, falls in value. Starting Rocky gives the ability to aggressively bring someone, like Macrae, in more immediately than a guns and rookies approach would allow - hence the stepping stone idea. The goal is to get to full premo ASAP.

Given Rockliff is not a captain option, he is in effect the same as a 500k player scoring at their average (like a Heeney for example). Completely agree.

What you’re not factoring in if rocky scores at 75-80 and just holds his value is other teams having cash generation in their teams who don’t have Rockliff. I dont see how that’s a win if someone who didn’t start Rocky has a rookie who you don’t have.

In your situation starting Brayshaw or Steele and they don’t increase in value at all but don’t drop is a win if Macrae or others drop in value. Personally I wouldn’t see it as a win.

Rockliff’s price seems to expensive to be a stepping stone player. I see the logic if you’re choosing him as a premium who you think will go 105+ and get to 550k not if you’re expecting him to go 80-90 and not generate cash and just hope other premiums fall because the team’s not starting him will have cheaper players and rookies generating much more cash and getting closer to their premiums than the Rockliff starters (not necessarily in the mids per say but in all other areas just due to greater cash generation.

It’s a bit hard to explain but we are looking at worst (albeit very realistic) possibilities but I don’t see Rockliff staying at his price and just making his 75 priced average as a win even if other premiums fall because other non Rockliff teams will very likely have cheaper players generating money which Rockliff isn’t doing.

In saying that I’m sure there are quite a few bullish about Rocky and could see the 100-105 average from him which is why they are selecting him and if he does fail early on will likely jump onto the best rookie or the best performing mid pricer out of Sheed/Libba/B.Crouch
 

Dustman

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What you’re not factoring in if rocky scores at 75-80 and just holds his value is other teams having cash generation in their teams who don’t have Rockliff. I dont see how that’s a win if someone who didn’t start Rocky has a rookie who you don’t have.

In your situation starting Brayshaw or Steele and they don’t increase in value at all but don’t drop is a win if Macrae or others drop in value. Personally I wouldn’t see it as a win.

Rockliff’s price seems to expensive to be a stepping stone player. I see the logic if you’re choosing him as a premium who you think will go 105+ and get to 550k not if you’re expecting him to go 80-90 and not generate cash and just hope other premiums fall because the team’s not starting him will have cheaper players and rookies generating much more cash and getting closer to their premiums than the Rockliff starters (not necessarily in the mids per say but in all other areas just due to greater cash generation.

It’s a bit hard to explain but we are looking at worst (albeit very realistic) possibilities but I don’t see Rockliff staying at his price and just making his 75 priced average as a win even if other premiums fall because other non Rockliff teams will very likely have cheaper players generating money which Rockliff isn’t doing.

In saying that I’m sure there are quite a few bullish about Rocky and could see the 100-105 average from him which is why they are selecting him and if he does fail early on will likely jump onto the best rookie or the best performing mid pricer out of Sheed/Libba/B.Crouch
Trouble is some of the rookies are gonna be a slow burn this year,limiting cash generation,that’s my thinking anyway,but it’s forcing people to have different strategies which is good for the comp.
 

Dustman

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I need to stay strong this next couple of days and resist the urge to turn Macrae and Constable into B.Crouch and Rockliff at M5 and M6
Give in to your urges, Rocky reminded us what he can do,and more importantly,hopefully the coaching staff take notice.
 

jobeywatto

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Is everyone forgetting that Rocky only put up 49 points from 60% gametime in JLT1? That Port/North game was as free flowing as you'd ever see... North barely tackled. Not sure if you can say that "Rocky is back" based purely on that.
 

Dustman

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Is everyone forgetting that Rocky only put up 49 points from 60% gametime in JLT1? That Port/North game was as free flowing as you'd ever see... North barely tackled. Not sure if you can say that "Rocky is back" based purely on that.
More important is the role he plays,never said he was back,but he doesn’t seem to have the puppy fat he usually carries,and he is more than capable of posting big scores,a risk I am willing to take .
 

McLovin

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Averaged 5.2 tackles after coming back from injury last year, posted 10 & 11 back to back in round 18/19.

There's a lot of reasons to not start Rocky, but his inability to tackle isn't one of them.
Averaged 5.2 tackles after coming back from injury last year, posted 10 & 11 back to back in round 18/19.

There's a lot of reasons to not start Rocky, but his inability to tackle isn't one of them.
Huh, my impression was that he still seemed to be carrying his shoulder a bit last year.
Yeah tackles don’t seem to mean a whole lot whether he is getting them or not.

He had 4 scores of 100+ and his tackle count in those games:

7, 3, 6, 3
Not necessarily, but I think it is relevant to his ability to score well while playing a more inside game. Mind you, he's unlikely to be the no.1 inside mid when Wines gets back. Some Brisbane fans have also griped constantly about how costly Rocky and Beams' lack of speed has been at stoppages in the last few years, it's going to be interesting to see whether we're better off in that regard now that they're both gone.
 

BigRuss

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What you’re not factoring in if rocky scores at 75-80 and just holds his value is other teams having cash generation in their teams who don’t have Rockliff. I dont see how that’s a win if someone who didn’t start Rocky has a rookie who you don’t have.

In your situation starting Brayshaw or Steele and they don’t increase in value at all but don’t drop is a win if Macrae or others drop in value. Personally I wouldn’t see it as a win.

Rockliff’s price seems to expensive to be a stepping stone player. I see the logic if you’re choosing him as a premium who you think will go 105+ and get to 550k not if you’re expecting him to go 80-90 and not generate cash and just hope other premiums fall because the team’s not starting him will have cheaper players and rookies generating much more cash and getting closer to their premiums than the Rockliff starters (not necessarily in the mids per say but in all other areas just due to greater cash generation.

It’s a bit hard to explain but we are looking at worst (albeit very realistic) possibilities but I don’t see Rockliff staying at his price and just making his 75 priced average as a win even if other premiums fall because other non Rockliff teams will very likely have cheaper players generating money which Rockliff isn’t doing.

In saying that I’m sure there are quite a few bullish about Rocky and could see the 100-105 average from him which is why they are selecting him and if he does fail early on will likely jump onto the best rookie or the best performing mid pricer out of Sheed/Libba/B.Crouch
I like your thought process here but I think your logic might be a bit flawed, and please do correct me if im wrong here, but youre assuming that the rookie selected in place of Rocky in this example is going going to have good return on investment in comparison to the mid priced player. Whereas in actuality most teams will share the core of 14-16 rookies, in effect those picking a rookie over a mid pricer are picking the 15/16th best rookie which most years tends to be a flop.

In comparison to the Brayshaw/Steele types i think you also need to factor in how much more difficult it is to make the 95 to 110 jump than it is to make the 75 to 90 jump. Im not sure which side comes out in front if they both hold value, a higher priced player holding their price is returning more points, but they've also had more money invested in them, that sort of math is way over my head.

I do whole heartedly agree that if your selecting Rocky with the mindset that hes only going to hold value, you should be looking elsewhere. Of course its a much more complex situation as most people will use the money saved over a "true" premium in different ways, but the idea that non selectors are getting a decently performing rookie over the mid priced selectors is almost always untrue in my experience.
 

quite ironic

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I like your thought process here but I think your logic might be a bit flawed, and please do correct me if im wrong here, but youre assuming that the rookie selected in place of Rocky in this example is going going to have good return on investment in comparison to the mid priced player. Whereas in actuality most teams will share the core of 14-16 rookies, in effect those picking a rookie over a mid pricer are picking the 15/16th best rookie which most years tends to be a flop.

In comparison to the Brayshaw/Steele types i think you also need to factor in how much more difficult it is to make the 95 to 110 jump than it is to make the 75 to 90 jump. Im not sure which side comes out in front if they both hold value, a higher priced player holding their price is returning more points, but they've also had more money invested in them, that sort of math is way over my head.

I do whole heartedly agree that if your selecting Rocky with the mindset that hes only going to hold value, you should be looking elsewhere. Of course its a much more complex situation as most people will use the money saved over a "true" premium in different ways, but the idea that non selectors are getting a decently performing rookie over the mid priced selectors is almost always untrue in my experience.
Yeah I also weighed that up when thinking about it, it seems to be swings and round abouts. Because if Rocky holds value and you have a 16th Rookie who is only making you a bit of cash it then comes down to where that other 280k was invested.

Whether it was used as an advantage to push say a Smith to Lloyd and the result between those two or say a rookie to Milera and he kills it.

It’s obviously a lot to do with chance but I was more trying to shed light on the personal opinion that even if premiums fell in price, having Rockliff sitting there just retaining his price doesn’t feel like a win to me due to every other team having the opportunity to pick up that same fallen mid as well. In comparison to Rockliff holding steady, other teams may have had other guys across the different lines generate cash for them to help compensate the non-Rockliff choice.

The counter point to that is where I see people coming from though, even if I’ve generated more cash and have a stronger line somewhere else it probably is a lot easier for them to get that fallen premium mid than me because I’d have to trade out a mid pricer on another line to upgrade a rookie to that fallen premo. Or, I’d have to sacrifice a rising player I probably selected as a premium anyway (and is performing of similar standard to the fallen premium) or maybe a mid pricer like Smith who has risen in price.

In that situation if a mid price in another area has risen a bit and Rockliff has stagnated you could always downgrade them and upgrade any of your mid rookies to that fallen premium but it’s obviously more of a sacrifice and cash than a Rockliff upgrade to them but does feel like a win compared to the Rockliff situation.
 

Deeman1

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Rocky has the Blues and Lions in R2 and R3. If he rips a big 150+ score there, I couldn’t live with myself as a rocky fanboy. Firmly locked for me as a starter.

Not many players care enough about JLT to put out a 170. He clearly has something to prove so I can see him really pushing in R2 and R3 (ignoring the surrounding draw). If he’s a failure at round 3, I’d admit the mistake and just dump him.
Hey Bomber,

If Rocky is locked, without revealing too much, how many of the Brouch, Liber, Sheed, Rocky types do you have currently?
 

Bomber18

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Hey Bomber,

If Rocky is locked, without revealing too much, how many of the Brouch, Liber, Sheed, Rocky types do you have currently?
Possibly only Brouch in addition but not finalised yet. Libba and Sheed no chance to make my starting side.
 

NT.Thunder

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Soooooooooo much Rocky talk - geeee, sounds like some of you have never experienced Rocky Burn. Believe me it's painful and can put you out of actions for many weeks. There's no known cure and many have even experienced severe re-occurrences weeks, months and sometimes years after the initial burn.
 

inwhiterooms

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Soooooooooo much Rocky talk - geeee, sounds like some of you have never experienced Rocky Burn. Believe me it's painful and can put you out of actions for many weeks. There's no known cure and many have even experienced severe re-occurrences weeks, months and sometimes years after the initial burn.
Fool me once...
 

Santoz

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Soooooooooo much Rocky talk - geeee, sounds like some of you have never experienced Rocky Burn. Believe me it's painful and can put you out of actions for many weeks. There's no known cure and many have even experienced severe re-occurrences weeks, months and sometimes years after the initial burn.
Let em learn the hard way. Haha.
 

freowho

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Soooooooooo much Rocky talk - geeee, sounds like some of you have never experienced Rocky Burn. Believe me it's painful and can put you out of actions for many weeks. There's no known cure and many have even experienced severe re-occurrences weeks, months and sometimes years after the initial burn.
If I pick him he will crash and burn, if I don't he will fire up! I get burnt both ways. :sick:
I just want him to retire so I can get some sleep.
 
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