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Bermi

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exactly

probably why it is a waste of time even selecting teams now , so much changes 😁
Basically, just have a list of players that you wouldn't mind starting with.
But it doesn't hurt to play around with teams for the structure, but don't treat them as your final team.
Anyway, it's fun playing around with teams :)
 
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Basically, just have a list of players that you wouldn't mind starting with.
But it doesn't hurt to play around with teams for the structure, but don't treat them as your final team.
Anyway, it's fun playing around with teams :)
I like looking at my side all set up in SC :)

My list of players will be 22 x 18 when teams are announced.
 

Darkie

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Lobb might also work in this situation - might be worth watching over JLT as a cheaper option.
You're right, there are a few options who could be used this way. One advantage of Westhoff is that he's as durable as they come (so he has a small negative PIT adjustment, if any, and is very likely to be playing when you need him for ruck cover). The offset is that guys like Lobb probably have a much better opportunity to outscore their price.
 

Darkie

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defence: considering Hanley, but at this stage don't think he's worth the risk. still really unsold on Witherden being even just a top 10 defender, would love for someone to convince me on that pick.

midfield: apart from fyfe all of those players have appeared in my team at some stage. at the moment i have 2 from your 5 non-rookie players

ruck: what do you need westhoff to average to make it a worthwhile pick? i say 95, and i dont think he can do it.

forward: don't like any of gray, wingard or moore but can see why people would be interested in the early 2.

overall: i think most of these selections have their merits and are under strong consideration by me but i wouldn't be comfortable with the amount of injury risk you're taking - williams, hanley, fyfe, hanners, bennell, setterfield, moore, gray, wingard, westhoff, all have injury histories, niggles in preseason or are over 30.
Thanks for your thoughts, it's good to get a different opinion.

On Witherden, he's one of the best young defenders in the comp (check out his Footywire bio page), and should have ongoing natural progression. Would have averaged 87-88 without his injury game, which puts him within 8-9 points of the sixth best defender already. Should take kick ins as well, and is cheap.

On Westhoff, I think it depends how much other value he adds, outside of having a high average. Factors that boost this value include his durability (so he doesn't get replaced by a rookie a few times a year, like a Buddy type), his DPP early on (I can switch he and Xerri to cherry pick scores from Parker or Fort, in some cases having already seen both of their scores), his ongoing ruck cover potential (which also increases due to his durability - there's no cover if your cover also doesn't play) and the structural flexibility he provides in trading (assuming I get Setterfield back to the midfield, I can trade any player in my side to Mumford in round five if I wish, for example, or upgrade anyone to Gawn later on, say). The rough points value of these factors might be 60+40+120+whatever you value DPP trading flexibility at (I would say 100+). Some of those numbers could easily be higher. That's 10-15 points per game across the year. He is priced at 101, so if the test is that you don't want to pay more than he gets you back, then he'd need to score 86-91. I expect him to do that.

In terms of the injury risks, I agree that I'm taking some risks on this front, although there are some mitigating factors in some cases (Bennell and Setterfield have lower JS risk than alternate rookie priced players, eg), and in other cases I'm doing it to access higher scoring potential at a discounted price (basically all the other names). I've also picked quite durable players in Danger, Dusty, Merrett, Neale and Westhoff as a bit of an offset.

Out of interest, who are the more durable names you prefer?
 
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Yikes

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Thanks for your thoughts, it's good to get a different opinion.

On Witherden, he's one of the best young defenders in the comp (check out his Footywire bio page), and should have ongoing natural progression. Would have averaged 87-88 without his injury game, which puts him within 8-9 points of the sixth best defender already. Should take kick ins as well, and is cheap.

On Westhoff, I think it depends how much other value he adds, outside of having a high average. Factors that boost this value include his durability (so he doesn't get replaced by a rookie a few times a year, like a Buddy type), his DPP early on (I can switch he and Xerri to cherry pick scores from Parker or Fort, in some cases having already seen both of their scores), his ongoing ruck cover potential (which also increases due to his durability - there's no cover if your cover also doesn't play) and the structural flexibility he provides in trading (assuming I get Setterfield back to the midfield, I can trade any player in my side to Mumford in round five if I wish, for example, or upgrade anyone to Gawn later on, say). The rough points value of these factors might be 60+40+120+whatever you value DPP trading flexibility at (I would say 100+). Some of those numbers could easily be higher. That's 10-15 points per game across the year. He is priced at 101, so if the test is that you don't want to pay more than he gets you back, then he'd need to score 86-91. I expect him to do that.

In terms of the injury risks, I agree that I'm taking some risks on this front, although there are some mitigating factors in some cases (Bennell and Setterfield have lower JS risk than alternate rookie priced players, eg), and in other cases I'm doing it to access higher scoring potential at a discounted price (basically all the other names). I've also picked quite durable players in Danger, Dusty, Merrett, Neale and Westhoff as a bit of an offset.

Out of interest, who are the more durable names you prefer?
lets say gawn drops by 7, and westhoff averages 95 which is higher than your minimum expectation. would you take an additional 150k initially + intangible flexibility over 550 points [(120-95) x 22]?
 

Darkie

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lets say gawn drops by 7, and westhoff averages 95 which is higher than your minimum expectation. would you take an additional 150k initially + intangible flexibility over 550 points [(120-95) x 22]?
I don't see Gawn as the marginal player, I'm expecting to swing Westhoff into the forward line part way through the season (he's not really providing ruck cover until he's in the forward line).

The sixth highest averaging forward ex Westhoff is McDonald, so arguably he is the type of player that I'm choosing Westhoff over. He averaged 96.7, so I'd say having Westhoff is a significant win in this scenario, especially if Grundy and my chosen R2 (probably Gawn) miss a number of games.
 

Yikes

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I don't see Gawn as the marginal player, I'm expecting to swing Westhoff into the forward line part way through the season (he's not really providing ruck cover until he's in the forward line).

The sixth highest averaging forward ex Westhoff is McDonald, so arguably he is the type of player that I'm choosing Westhoff over. He averaged 96.7, so I'd say having Westhoff is a significant win in this scenario, especially if Grundy and my chosen R2 (probably Gawn) miss a number of games.
well by starting westhoff in the rucks one of grundy or gawn has to be the marginal player at least for half the season, so we're looking at 275 points at the very least and to start grundy/gawn you also save a trade.
 

BigRuss

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feb 11.png

Here's mine as it sits at the moment fellas. Feels bloody vanilla but i dont mind that too much this time of year.

Cant really find a a second mid pricer im comfortable with, so Miles gets the chop. Alternatively if 2 or 3 pop up through JLT i dont mind cutting Kelly down to Miles and hopefully be able to redistribute enough to pull 2 more rookie scores off the field.

F4 is well and truly up for grabs , whoever looks to have the beneficial role likely gets the nod. I do like Dunkley though, ripping run home last year promises the world.

Byes are 4/4/6 for anyone playing along at home.

Cheers for any feedback lads.
 
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stephen

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well by starting westhoff in the rucks one of grundy or gawn has to be the marginal player at least for half the season, so we're looking at 275 points at the very least and to start grundy/gawn you also save a trade.
Until teams are fully upgraded you're comparing value against value and then factoring in opportunity cost. Upgrading to gawn doesn't cost you a trade any more than upgrading to a premium on any other line.
 

Bomber18

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Thanks for your thoughts, it's good to get a different opinion.

On Westhoff, I think it depends how much other value he adds, outside of having a high average. Factors that boost this value include his durability (so he doesn't get replaced by a rookie a few times a year, like a Buddy type), his DPP early on (I can switch he and Xerri to cherry pick scores from Parker or Fort, in some cases having already seen both of their scores), his ongoing ruck cover potential (which also increases due to his durability - there's no cover if your cover also doesn't play) and the structural flexibility he provides in trading (assuming I get Setterfield back to the midfield, I can trade any player in my side to Mumford in round five if I wish, for example, or upgrade anyone to Gawn later on, say). The rough points value of these factors might be 60+40+120+whatever you value DPP trading flexibility at (I would say 100+). Some of those numbers could easily be higher. That's 10-15 points per game across the year. He is priced at 101, so if the test is that you don't want to pay more than he gets you back, then he'd need to score 86-91. I expect him to do that.
How much do you think the rookie loopholing might be worth? That has me considering him again. Avoiding a <40 from a rookie and getting an >80 can easily add up to 100 points quite quickly over the first 6-7 games.

I probably rate the DPP ruck cover boost a bit lower than you. I see it unlikely that we'll cop a ruck injury / resting early on in the season. If I trade the Hoff in around upgrade period (say R7-8) and pay around $480k, I can still gain that same likely boost of 5-10ppg or so from ruck cover but at a cheaper price. In any case if you essentially have Westhoff at R2 with no premium ruck at R2 you can't actually use him as cover for your R1 and are just relying on Fort for cover.

Agree with the DPP flexibility point though. Possibly a good strategic move to leave the option of trading Mumford in at R5.

EDIT: Although on further thought, if you just went Fort R2 with Bines R3, you could still retain that flexibility to grab Mumford come R5.

So all in all, his true bonus value to me is just from that rookie loopholing and negating the doomsday scenario of the Fort R2 strategy where Fort gets dropped early.
 
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aps1

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Thanks for your thoughts, it's good to get a different opinion.

On Witherden, he's one of the best young defenders in the comp (check out his Footywire bio page), and should have ongoing natural progression. Would have averaged 87-88 without his injury game, which puts him within 8-9 points of the sixth best defender already. Should take kick ins as well, and is cheap.

On Westhoff, I think it depends how much other value he adds, outside of having a high average. Factors that boost this value include his durability (so he doesn't get replaced by a rookie a few times a year, like a Buddy type), his DPP early on (I can switch he and Xerri to cherry pick scores from Parker or Fort, in some cases having already seen both of their scores), his ongoing ruck cover potential (which also increases due to his durability - there's no cover if your cover also doesn't play) and the structural flexibility he provides in trading (assuming I get Setterfield back to the midfield, I can trade any player in my side to Mumford in round five if I wish, for example, or upgrade anyone to Gawn later on, say). The rough points value of these factors might be 60+40+120+whatever you value DPP trading flexibility at (I would say 100+). Some of those numbers could easily be higher. That's 10-15 points per game across the year. He is priced at 101, so if the test is that you don't want to pay more than he gets you back, then he'd need to score 86-91. I expect him to do that.

In terms of the injury risks, I agree that I'm taking some risks on this front, although there are some mitigating factors in some cases (Bennell and Setterfield have lower JS risk than alternate rookie priced players, eg), and in other cases I'm doing it to access higher scoring potential at a discounted price (basically all the other names). I've also picked quite durable players in Danger, Dusty, Merrett, Neale and Westhoff as a bit of an offset.

Out of interest, who are the more durable names you prefer?
Just a few random thoughts on Westhoff...

The real value of Westhoff will ultimately depend on the level of utility you get to actualise. If we get a decent R3 such as Fort then Westhoff loses a fair chunk of that utility for say the first half of the year. (while still keeping the looping benefits between the pair)

The flexibility with trading is interesting, but I wouldn’t have that as a major driver.
Is the desire to potentially having Mumford and adequate cover a driver for selecting Westhoff? Assuming Fort doesn’t get up, Westhoff provides cover and will also likely have a high PIT value, but may be covering for someone that may potentially have a low PIT value (depending on how Mumford returns). That seems like any gains are just cancelling out the losses. Again, you may get to actualise real value in the 2nd half of the year once you upgrade Mumford (or covering your R1 during the full season) and other may need to use a trade either to bring Westhoff in/or trade rucks.
 

Tails

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Just a few random thoughts on Westhoff...

The real value of Westhoff will ultimately depend on the level of utility you get to actualise. If we get a decent R3 such as Fort then Westhoff loses a fair chunk of that utility for say the first half of the year. (while still keeping the looping benefits between the pair)

The flexibility with trading is interesting, but I wouldn’t have that as a major driver.
Is the desire to potentially having Mumford and adequate cover a driver for selecting Westhoff? Assuming Fort doesn’t get up, Westhoff provides cover and will also likely have a high PIT value, but may be covering for someone that may potentially have a low PIT value (depending on how Mumford returns). That seems like any gains are just cancelling out the losses. Again, you may get to actualise real value in the 2nd half of the year once you upgrade Mumford (or covering your R1 during the full season) and other may need to use a trade either to bring Westhoff in/or trade rucks.
The Hoff is an interesting call but I can recall years of whinging about the lack of a decent R/F to provide cover. Now we have one but is probably over priced ... what price do you put on the cover .... If say I invested 1.4 mil in my ruck setup then 540k is expensive cover but last year is the first that I recall the top two going through unscathed.
 
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View attachment 6721

Here's mine as it sits at the moment fellas. Feels bloody vanilla but i dont mind that too much this time of year.

Cant really find a a second mid pricer im comfortable with, so Miles gets the chop. Alternatively if 2 or 3 pop up through JLT i dont mind cutting Kelly down to Miles and hopefully be able to redistribute enough to pull 2 more rookie scores off the field.

F4 is well and truly up for grabs , whoever looks to have the beneficial role likely gets the nod. I do like Dunkley though, ripping run home last year promises the world.

Byes are 4/4/6 for anyone playing along at home.

Cheers for any feedback lads.
thought Wingard would have been there for sure 😁

looks as good as any for this time of year

no Rozee , thoughts on Atley ?

Cheers
 

Tails

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thought Wingard would have been there for sure 😁

looks as good as any for this time of year

no Rozee , thoughts on Atley ?

Cheers
Atley definitely on my shortlist ... got a no on Rozee as I can only see him playing foward and too expensive in that role for mine ... long time to go though ... one of Rozee or Collins for me but won't be taking both ...
 

aps1

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The Hoff is an interesting call but I can recall years of whinging about the lack of a decent R/F to provide cover. Now we have one but is probably over priced ... what price do you put on the cover .... If say I invested 1.4 mil in my ruck setup then 540k is expensive cover but last year is the first that I recall the top two going through unscathed.
Don’t mind the price if the player can meet expectation with pts scored/pts enabled to be scored. Personally, I think Hoff is 10 pts overpriced, but does have the ability to make some of that up.
 

Tails

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Don’t mind the price if the player can meet expectation with pts scored/pts enabled to be scored. Personally, I think Hoff is 10 pts overpriced, but does have the ability to make some of that up.
I don't mind him as an option when freed up from ruck duties. Those duties didn't really add to his score last year but put him more around the ball IMO. I prefer him in the swingman role and if he could go 95+ would be quite content.
 

Yikes

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Until teams are fully upgraded you're comparing value against value and then factoring in opportunity cost. Upgrading to gawn doesn't cost you a trade any more than upgrading to a premium on any other line.
Thanks for telling me that I'm comparing value with value, and that the value of 1 trade=the value of 1 trade :D:rolleyes:
 
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