Position 2021: Ruck Discussion
- Thread starter THCLT
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But isn't that the modern game over the last decade ?
1 ruck , 2-3 KPF , 2-3 KPD
the small specialist forward and lockdown defender has dissappeard
every one else is essentially a mid
Clarko used to change the CBA 4 every bounce , start Roughy as a mid , defenders don't have a clue what to do , then loses them in traffic
6-6-6 lasts 5 seconds until the next goal and essentially everyone is 50 metres from the ball
1 ruck , 2-3 KPF , 2-3 KPD
the small specialist forward and lockdown defender has dissappeard
every one else is essentially a mid
Clarko used to change the CBA 4 every bounce , start Roughy as a mid , defenders don't have a clue what to do , then loses them in traffic
6-6-6 lasts 5 seconds until the next goal and essentially everyone is 50 metres from the ball
Indeed those who went with with at least one "value" ruck starter almost certainly made the right decision. The warning signs were there in the preseason and only appear confirmed after Round 1. Yes we have seen this all before in terms of Grundy and Gawn getting off to slow starts only then to punish those foolish enough to trade them out. But this season with the change of rules and game styles we are likely dealing with a completely different beast.
I'll be holding Grawndy heading into Round 2 but have a high likelihood of getting rid of at least one of them for a high value alternative next week. Unless it can be demonstrated on the field this coming weekend that we are just jumping at shadows here ... but I really don't think we are.
I'll be holding Grawndy heading into Round 2 but have a high likelihood of getting rid of at least one of them for a high value alternative next week. Unless it can be demonstrated on the field this coming weekend that we are just jumping at shadows here ... but I really don't think we are.
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Indeed those who went with with at least one "value" ruck starter almost certainly made the right decision. The warning signs were there in the preseason and only appear confirmed after Round 1. Yes we have seen this all before in terms of Grundy and Gawn getting off to slow starts only then to punish those foolish enough to trade them out. But this season with the change of rules and game styles we are likely dealing with a completely different beast.
I'll be holding Grawndy heading into Round 2 but have a high likelihood of getting rid of at least one of them for a high value alternative next week. Unless it can be demonstrated on the field that we are just jumping at shadows here ... but I really don't think we are.
I'll be holding Grawndy heading into Round 2 but have a high likelihood of getting rid of at least one of them for a high value alternative next week. Unless it can be demonstrated on the field that we are just jumping at shadows here ... but I really don't think we are.
Indeed those who went with with at least one "value" ruck starter almost certainly made the right decision. The warning signs were there in the preseason and only appear confirmed after Round 1. Yes we have seen this all before in terms of Grundy and Gawn getting off to slow starts only then to punish those foolish enough to trade them out. But this season with the change of rules and game styles we are likely dealing with a completely different beast.
I'll be holding Grawndy heading into Round 2 but have a high likelihood of getting rid of at least one of them for a high value alternative next week. Unless it can be demonstrated on the field that we are just jumping at shadows here ... but I really don't think we are.
I'll be holding Grawndy heading into Round 2 but have a high likelihood of getting rid of at least one of them for a high value alternative next week. Unless it can be demonstrated on the field that we are just jumping at shadows here ... but I really don't think we are.
Well done everyone who started at least two rookie rucks, I think you chose well. Really wish I had listened to myself when I was one of the first here to suggest a Flynn R2 option (with little support at the time). Or even when I gave my one piece of advice in the Caches Corner thread - I still ignored that too ("Do as I say, not as I do. I rarely follow my own suggestions regarding various players and usually regret it.") One day I'll learn...
That said, I never get my rucks right. Whatever I do will likely be the wrong option. Do the opposite and you'll probably be in good shape!
Yeah our starting ruck selections seem to have a disproportionately high impact on how our season pans out. You'd think they are just just 2 starting spots amongst 20 others - all equally important to "get right". But I don't think it's a coincidence that back in 2017 when I nailed Witts as my starting R2 it was also my highest ever SC finish of 142nd.
Some big decisions for us Grawndy owners in particular, coming up over the next 10 days or so.
Some big decisions for us Grawndy owners in particular, coming up over the next 10 days or so.
Worth noting that in that 2019 season you had Nank 127, Phillips 98, Sinclair 110, Witts 87, Goldstein 102, Stanley 108, Jacobs 86, McEvoy 102, Martin 82 and Dawson Simpson 85. Basically Gawn and Grundy had crap games (the Gawn game had 61 stoppages, roughly the average this round in 2021 but well below the average in 2019).
It's actually amazing how they struggle with it, even more of a conundrum how they value lower value positions over the most important when doing it. I think it's the Dusty Martin effect, he's so good that even playing out of position he manages to turn games and so everyone thinks their best midfielders will do the same as forwards...
The thing I expect we see more of is the Hawkins type scenario where a forward takes the ruck contests and the ruck stays zoned behind. Gawn was clearly getting stuck in no mans land with the speed the ball was moving. The negative of this is F50 stoppages are a great source of points but the positive is more intercept mark chances.
The stats are confirming that we've got a significant reduction in stoppages, the preseason suggested it and round 1 has backed it up.
Average stoppages this round were 63.2, for comparison last year the average was 59.2 and that's with the reduced quarters. Taking out the rain impacted game that sticks out like a sore thumb the average was 60.5. For reference last year scaled up for full quarters was 74 and the four years prior were 77.12, 77.77, 79.75 and 79.35. The weekend was an 18.5% reduction on the 5 year average for stoppages and is in line with the preseason numbers.
Whether that changes is a genuine question but it's hard to see how if the rules are causing it, even the kick-in rule is impacting things as a lot more teams felt confident kicking into the corridor this weekend than I've seen in years. I didn't notice any team religiously kicking to touch like years past.
The real question is how to react? Meek was very solid and I think he scores well this weekend when not effectively tagging Gawn. Flynn got banged up and everyone had him regardless. Hunter at least got the card out for stamping of his exit and gets a date with Gawn this week as his best case. Hickey and Martin both had good scores compared to their starting prices and would be at least worth considering if they repeated it at least to assess the ruck situation.
Personally I have Grundy and will give him a week and hope he bounces back somewhat, I think if you've got both Grundy and Gawn you've got the decision of whether they're still the clear top 2 rucks and if the answer is yes, then are they worth holding through a price drop. Effectively if you're committing trades to getting rid of them you still need the trades to make the kind of return you always would. There's definitely a case for trading or keeping. They may well bounce back, Gawn did work things out to an extent in the 2nd half and was doing a better job getting behind the ball, his ruck share was the bigger issue from that game for me by the end of it, Grundy just looked terrible but getting Sidey back will certainly help and I think they need to use JDG in the middle more, no point parking your best players forward if you can't get the ball there. Guys like Elliott or Thomas or several others are actually good enough forwards that Pendles, Sidey or De Goey can make them look very good with top tier delivery, much better than De Goey will ever look with no delivery as those same guys lose the midfield battle...
It's actually amazing how they struggle with it, even more of a conundrum how they value lower value positions over the most important when doing it. I think it's the Dusty Martin effect, he's so good that even playing out of position he manages to turn games and so everyone thinks their best midfielders will do the same as forwards...
The thing I expect we see more of is the Hawkins type scenario where a forward takes the ruck contests and the ruck stays zoned behind. Gawn was clearly getting stuck in no mans land with the speed the ball was moving. The negative of this is F50 stoppages are a great source of points but the positive is more intercept mark chances.
The stats are confirming that we've got a significant reduction in stoppages, the preseason suggested it and round 1 has backed it up.
Average stoppages this round were 63.2, for comparison last year the average was 59.2 and that's with the reduced quarters. Taking out the rain impacted game that sticks out like a sore thumb the average was 60.5. For reference last year scaled up for full quarters was 74 and the four years prior were 77.12, 77.77, 79.75 and 79.35. The weekend was an 18.5% reduction on the 5 year average for stoppages and is in line with the preseason numbers.
Whether that changes is a genuine question but it's hard to see how if the rules are causing it, even the kick-in rule is impacting things as a lot more teams felt confident kicking into the corridor this weekend than I've seen in years. I didn't notice any team religiously kicking to touch like years past.
The real question is how to react? Meek was very solid and I think he scores well this weekend when not effectively tagging Gawn. Flynn got banged up and everyone had him regardless. Hunter at least got the card out for stamping of his exit and gets a date with Gawn this week as his best case. Hickey and Martin both had good scores compared to their starting prices and would be at least worth considering if they repeated it at least to assess the ruck situation.
Personally I have Grundy and will give him a week and hope he bounces back somewhat, I think if you've got both Grundy and Gawn you've got the decision of whether they're still the clear top 2 rucks and if the answer is yes, then are they worth holding through a price drop. Effectively if you're committing trades to getting rid of them you still need the trades to make the kind of return you always would. There's definitely a case for trading or keeping. They may well bounce back, Gawn did work things out to an extent in the 2nd half and was doing a better job getting behind the ball, his ruck share was the bigger issue from that game for me by the end of it, Grundy just looked terrible but getting Sidey back will certainly help and I think they need to use JDG in the middle more, no point parking your best players forward if you can't get the ball there. Guys like Elliott or Thomas or several others are actually good enough forwards that Pendles, Sidey or De Goey can make them look very good with top tier delivery, much better than De Goey will ever look with no delivery as those same guys lose the midfield battle...
Rookie rucks paid off for one rd. Fast fwd to when Flynn doesn't get up from his ankle, Meek is dropped for a rest and Hunter is flicked for Marshall...
With reward comes risk. Rookies (all of them) and managed game time is still an issue in my mind over the next few weeks. 2020 was such a cluster**** that many young players simply won't have the fitness base to keep it up long.
With reward comes risk. Rookies (all of them) and managed game time is still an issue in my mind over the next few weeks. 2020 was such a cluster**** that many young players simply won't have the fitness base to keep it up long.
