Chasing last years points (MkII)....

BuddyLove

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#21
You are certainly man-crush worthy mate.

This article has solidified my thinking on a few issues:

Odds on one of if not all of Beams, Danger and maybe others not part of the scope of this article, like Watson, Deledio, Selwood, Priddis, Thompson etc will have worse SC seasons statistically.

I guess the idea that flows on from this, is why are you picking your guns in the first place. I think realistically everyone who picks Ablett and Swan don't do it because they see scope for improvement or value each year. It's output that gets them over the line. I guess for overall team balance, you just don't want too many of them or your overall value for money will be poor.

Like you mentioned with our mate Montagna in the previous thread. Even though he pumped out a mid 120 odd and then dropped a heap to mid 110's, he was still one of the best selections for that year (top 4 was it?).

I can't realistically see any of the above bettering their averages this year, but even if they maintain it, or are within a few points below, does that make them bad selections?

What if the top 5 for overall points and averages next year are:

Ablett 130 (2012 - 138)
Swan 122 (126)
Watson 120 (121)
Beams 119 (123)
Dangerfield 118 (119)

Is the notion of reduced output overrided by the need to have the best of the best every year? Sure none improved, but does that matter if they are still the best as Ablett and Swan show each year? Or should we go against this and purely look for value in every selection? Provided that you can match a predicted point output for those that will drop, is that where the advantage lies?

To follow a slightly different angle, I think that those who did jump to the upper echelons do so for a reason. They have to be good. It'd be very unlikely to do so without some substance behind them as fantasy footballers. Unforseen injuries and role changes aside of course.

Keep up the good work mate!
I see your point, and certainly agree output overrides value..... to a certain extent.
Add Pendlebury into your list of 5 players, and I say every team should probably start with 2 of those 6, maybe 3 at a pinch. I know the game is about points, and not dollars, but there is a direct relationship between the two. The best teams, are also the teams that grow in value the quickest. If you have too many of those 6 in your team, too early, your team value is suffering with your biggest investments dropping in value. Keep in mind, a player that scores at last years average will slowly drop around 10% for the season. It is why I harp on value a little. Just imagine comparing these 2 teams. Team A goes top heavy and spends $3.5m on 6 top heavy players that will slowly reduce in value, and $6.5m on players that overall increase by say 15% early on. Team B spends $1.2m on 2 top heavy players, and $8.8m on players that increase by 15% early on. Let's give the the top heavy players a 5% loss, and guess we are talking about round 6 or 7.
Team A: ($3.5m*.95)+($6.5m*1.15) = value now $10.8m
Team B: ($1.5m*.95)+($8.5m*1.15) = value now $11.2m
Keep in mind points produce dollars, and dollars are used to produce points. It is a cycle that every team needs. With the extra $400k produced, Team B has made improvements quicker than Team A. Yes, you may say he needs to make improvements to match Team A's premiums. My answer to that is, if their non premium cattle are growing at around the same % as each other, you'd be surprised at how little difference there is in their points, BUT Team B's improvement in point scoring will increase quicker, due to more dollars being generated.
My advice is, find a way to figure out which 2 of those 6 will score the best early on (to utilise the Capt loophole), and it may just come down to guessing, and start those 2. Trade the others in when they have a slight drop, or you have the cash. The only downfall on my advice would be, if you chose the wrong 2 to start, and 2 of the others start the season with a bang, before "wilting" to your predicted averages. Their output would still be good, but you might have really payed top dollars for them. One of the keys to success is bringing in the right players at the right time. That means when they represent value on what their output will be after you bring them in. In your scenario, none of them represent value. (Even though I know you don't think/recommend that anyone will start with all 6).
I love the thought put into your responses, sven! :)

Great Discussion Guys

I think the correct answer totally depends on How much value there is an any specific year.

If finishing the year with the most money was the objective you would ONLY pick rookies and Value Picks.
The problem with this is that you would have about 5 million bucks left in the bank that isn't invested
Obviously if your money isn't invested it isn't going to be earning you points.


In the ideal world you pick your rookies that you are happy to have on the field, your Value picks, your 2 captain options and you have spent your salary cap and have a full team.

In reality (especially this year assuming that we get some good rookies come through) there will be times where you might pick a player purely for their point scoring rather than their value (otherwise you would need to leave money in the bank).
 

Rowsus

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#22
I agree with just about all those assessments.
Nicnat looked like he had great potential. The new Ruck rules will turn him into a SC monster, if he can stay injury free.
Walker could easily be the 2nd best Fwd we see in recent times to Buddy. Unfortunately, I can see him missing games like Buddy, too. But his WOW factor will make him irresistable.
Beams will probably pull up just short of the next Swan, and probably just short of the next Pendlebury, but that's still pretty outstanding.
Danger might be just a point or 2 behind that, just in front of Scooter, who shocked all, by averaging a competition 2nd best of 128 in 2013!
(just kidding, I don't think he'll fly that high :))
 
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#23
Good article and research. Shows what I suspected that the players that *do* increase quite a bit, are doing it for most part because they have matured and developing as footballers comfortable with elite level. However sometimes their scoring overshoots what their regular career average is likely to be in the prime of their career because the opposition have not caught on the player has jumped to another level as a footballer and not pay them the curtailing attention that will happen when the coaching staff opposing them realize their impact is too good to ignore any longer. Hence the following season there is every chance a drop off in scoring is likely.

I like Beams and rate him as a footballer but even he surprised me his average jumped into the 120's this season. I would have expected maybe 105 to 110 if all went well with him and Collingwood started giving him more game time which they were not doing in 2011. He went way over that upper level I expected of him in 2012. I rate Dangerfield even higher and actually had him in my SC team. I won't be picking them as I already thought there is every chance they won't be able to maintain ther average of 2012 and the price to pay for them is just too much , even more so without for/mid status. However out of all those players that had breakout seasons this year I just feel Dangerfield is every chance to buck the trend of dropping average the next season. He is really elite level talent and will be hard to stop even with closer attention. I suspect a season averaging 115 ppg to 125 ppg. An upgrade target for me if his price drops off mid season some time.
 

Fresh

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#24
Rowsus, awesome work. I'm not sure if it was already mentioned in the other thread but a number of the jumps into 100+ averages in 2011 came from ruck scorers due to the change in points to hit outs to advantage I think it was.

As an idea, would it be appropriate to strip out the Rucks from the analysis? Not trying to poke holes in your excellent work, just trying to comprehend all the stats.
 

Rowsus

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#25
Rowsus, awesome work. I'm not sure if it was already mentioned in the other thread but a number of the jumps into 100+ averages in 2011 came from ruck scorers due to the change in points to hit outs to advantage I think it was.

As an idea, would it be appropriate to strip out the Rucks from the analysis? Not trying to poke holes in your excellent work, just trying to comprehend all the stats.
Thanks Fresh. In the 102+ catagory there are only 3 rucks out of the 18 players. The main focus should be on the 102+, I only really included the 100 - 101.9 for completeness reasons to show what jumps to over 100+ produce. I think you are right as to the reason why their scoring altered. It would be nice if they advised of these things in the pre-season! :)
 
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