Position SC 2021: Midfielder Discussion
- Thread starter THCLT
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I hope they do! Really enjoy watching both Walsh and Kelly play so seeing them do good things would be great - and good for your team! Of all of them I reckon I'm most bullish on Walsh.. not only is he a jet but he has the tank to burn a tag if someone does go to him I reckon. Shouldn't be a bad pick, just a case of how good he can be.
I don't remember seeing him getting tagged last season but granted I didn't watch every carlton game. I think as long as Cripps is in the middle he'll always be the number one tagging target as 1. he is their best mid (for now) and 2. it's shown to be effective. If Cripps ends up spending a large chunk of time forward though it does open up the possibility - especially if Walsh is dominating - but I think teams would actually just go head to head and expect to beat a Cripps-less midfield on their merits, rather than sacrifice their own game to shut someone down.
l do also think players that have the running ability of Walsh are hard to tag because they stay mobile so much.. so I don't think it would massively impact him to the level it would someone like Rowell who is more of a bull type player. Probably the biggest risk is if a tagger does get hold of Walsh he hasn't really got the other strings to his bow that can help (isolated in the goal square for example).
All up I wouldn't avoid picking Walsh because of any tagging risk - if you think he can produce his late 2020 scoring (or close to it) then he's worth the selection.
l do also think players that have the running ability of Walsh are hard to tag because they stay mobile so much.. so I don't think it would massively impact him to the level it would someone like Rowell who is more of a bull type player. Probably the biggest risk is if a tagger does get hold of Walsh he hasn't really got the other strings to his bow that can help (isolated in the goal square for example).
All up I wouldn't avoid picking Walsh because of any tagging risk - if you think he can produce his late 2020 scoring (or close to it) then he's worth the selection.
Walsh for mine is positional. As a central midfielder he was elite last year. From round 11 when he moved into the guts rather than the wing his average is good enough at 118. As a winger he's not a good enough ball user and doesn't do enough else to really push ahead.
Will be interesting with their mix, Cripps is obviously ahead of everyone but does Williams push him back onto the wing? They have so many HBF types with Doch, Saad, Newman, SPS, O'Brien and Williamson on top of Marchbank, Weitering, Plowman and Jones down back, it's hard to squeeze them all in without seeing a couple maybe move to the wing/midfield (Doch, Newman & SPS make sense for these moves to me if anyone).
Their preseason game will be very telling. Martin, Kennedy, Dow, Curnow, Murphy, Williams, Setterfield, Fisher and Gibbons all pushing for midfield minutes also. Personally I think they push Murphy on a wing with probably Newman and go with Cripps, Williams and Walsh as their first midfield group and then Curnow, Kennedy/Setterfield and Martin as the second rotation but it remains to be seen what they do.
I like Walsh but probably a bit too much risk given what he has to do at that price. The jump to 110+ over a whole season is a big one but he does have the engine to do it at least, just needs the position. I think if they're smart that Walsh should be in the guts, he looked so much better there than the wing but AFL coaches are notoriously dense.
Will be interesting with their mix, Cripps is obviously ahead of everyone but does Williams push him back onto the wing? They have so many HBF types with Doch, Saad, Newman, SPS, O'Brien and Williamson on top of Marchbank, Weitering, Plowman and Jones down back, it's hard to squeeze them all in without seeing a couple maybe move to the wing/midfield (Doch, Newman & SPS make sense for these moves to me if anyone).
Their preseason game will be very telling. Martin, Kennedy, Dow, Curnow, Murphy, Williams, Setterfield, Fisher and Gibbons all pushing for midfield minutes also. Personally I think they push Murphy on a wing with probably Newman and go with Cripps, Williams and Walsh as their first midfield group and then Curnow, Kennedy/Setterfield and Martin as the second rotation but it remains to be seen what they do.
I like Walsh but probably a bit too much risk given what he has to do at that price. The jump to 110+ over a whole season is a big one but he does have the engine to do it at least, just needs the position. I think if they're smart that Walsh should be in the guts, he looked so much better there than the wing but AFL coaches are notoriously dense.
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Im really drawing a blank on the last few midfeilders this year, pretty happy with Neale , Oliver and Cripps.
But can't decide on the last 2, I currently have Macrae and Jelly but there are role and injury concerns on those on those two. I could succumb to the maddness and pick Tarranto and Hatley as M4 and M5... but thats crazy, isnt it?
But can't decide on the last 2, I currently have Macrae and Jelly but there are role and injury concerns on those on those two. I could succumb to the maddness and pick Tarranto and Hatley as M4 and M5... but thats crazy, isnt it?
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For sure this is the most difficult line. Haven't moved premos in other lines but its musical chairs after Neale.
I'd like both Steele and Oliver, but its really hurting F4 for me (Campbell). Dogs mids can wait. Like Zerrett but he seems to have a small form dip every year and I don't know his inside/outside split. Kelly/Fyfe too injury prone for me. Mitchell upgrade after his bye (if corona doesnt screw us). Adams seems reasonable value without Treloar but always viewed him as injury prone. Walsh is interesting, he scored okay on the wing and a bit better on ball in his last 3 games. Having a big preseason, it might come down to that one preseason game. Cripps I dont care about and Rowell I'm locking for the time being, had a 8 month preseason. Simpkin I don't mind but its a big jump. Taranto mentally threw in the towell last year and it doesnt sit well.
I think I'm looking at Neale, Steele, Oliver/Walsh, Rowell and hopefully Hately. Think I prefer Oliver though as Walsh/Rowell/Hately seems unlikely for all 3 to work.
I'd like both Steele and Oliver, but its really hurting F4 for me (Campbell). Dogs mids can wait. Like Zerrett but he seems to have a small form dip every year and I don't know his inside/outside split. Kelly/Fyfe too injury prone for me. Mitchell upgrade after his bye (if corona doesnt screw us). Adams seems reasonable value without Treloar but always viewed him as injury prone. Walsh is interesting, he scored okay on the wing and a bit better on ball in his last 3 games. Having a big preseason, it might come down to that one preseason game. Cripps I dont care about and Rowell I'm locking for the time being, had a 8 month preseason. Simpkin I don't mind but its a big jump. Taranto mentally threw in the towell last year and it doesnt sit well.
I think I'm looking at Neale, Steele, Oliver/Walsh, Rowell and hopefully Hately. Think I prefer Oliver though as Walsh/Rowell/Hately seems unlikely for all 3 to work.
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I’m not sure I’ve seen too many winning teams have 8 of the top 10 mids. It’s often the dream, but I think it’s more important to have the key few (eg Neale, Oliver, Macrae, Steele last year) than all of them.
Raising the value of our starting sides is critical to success, so if Taranto gets to 105, and those others got to 108, it would be a win.
Cripps with 2 seasons of ultra-premo averages though has to look the best of the lot. I know he burnt a lot of people last year, but being burnt at a start price of $650k hurts. It hurts a lot less at $520k.
Raising the value of our starting sides is critical to success, so if Taranto gets to 105, and those others got to 108, it would be a win.
Cripps with 2 seasons of ultra-premo averages though has to look the best of the lot. I know he burnt a lot of people last year, but being burnt at a start price of $650k hurts. It hurts a lot less at $520k.
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I’m really not sure of what he averages in those stat columns. I feel like a lot of the love for Rowell comes with the memory that he was scoring so well and we were all drunk on that money he was adding to our sides so quickly. He’s not a $207k mid this year though.
Just like the burn memory of Cripps comes from those that paid $650k for him, even though he’s not a $650k mid this year.
The reality is much different, although it’s hard to leave the past in the past. Needless to say, I’m less bullish on Rowell than most.
Just like the burn memory of Cripps comes from those that paid $650k for him, even though he’s not a $650k mid this year.
The reality is much different, although it’s hard to leave the past in the past. Needless to say, I’m less bullish on Rowell than most.
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Just not in the Suns best 22 unfortunately I think. And with Atkins and Markov coming in this year I can’t see that changing. Clearly isn’t one of Dews favourites, and those blokes will be playing the wing/HB roles that Fiorini was thrown into by Dew on the odd occasions he got games over the last few years, rather than that inside mid role that he’s most accustom to.
I don’t disagree.. it’s definitely the dream! But I do think you need to put as many “best guesses” in as possible. It’s far easier to take make a compromise on a premo when you’re upgrading (eg grab a guy with a first quarter injury or off the back of a hard tag game) than it is to bring in top 10 mids. You might be able to get 1-2 in.. but the rest inevitably end up being those M7-M8 types.
If your starting midfield is M1, M6, M7, M8.. you are really committed to where the bulk of your upgrade cash will need to go.. otherwise the overall midfield will be extremely compromised at the point end of the season.
The other risk is the fallacy of “they’ll make cash and then I’ll flip them to a M1-3”.. because for that to happen they’ll need to be scoring at a level to get to 600k. If you have a mid who’s started hot and gets to that level, would you waste a trade or do you think you have keeper? The tricky thing then is a lot of these guys revert.. scoring dips.. maybe 1-2 bad games.. and suddenly the cash is dropping and the moment has passed.
Now looking at worst case.. they don’t live up to preseason expectations and score roughly how they are priced. Suddenly you have 3 sideways trades you need to make.. but the priority is getting rookies off the field, so these go into the luxury trade bracket while you fix other problems. Depending on cash gen and targets.. there is a realistic chance you end up with all 3 in your final team.
I definitely don’t know if they will or work out.. could be a stroke of genius. But history says players starting at this price rarely become season keepers.. so nailing 1 is great, nailing 3 is “go buy a lotto ticket” territory.
If your starting midfield is M1, M6, M7, M8.. you are really committed to where the bulk of your upgrade cash will need to go.. otherwise the overall midfield will be extremely compromised at the point end of the season.
The other risk is the fallacy of “they’ll make cash and then I’ll flip them to a M1-3”.. because for that to happen they’ll need to be scoring at a level to get to 600k. If you have a mid who’s started hot and gets to that level, would you waste a trade or do you think you have keeper? The tricky thing then is a lot of these guys revert.. scoring dips.. maybe 1-2 bad games.. and suddenly the cash is dropping and the moment has passed.
Now looking at worst case.. they don’t live up to preseason expectations and score roughly how they are priced. Suddenly you have 3 sideways trades you need to make.. but the priority is getting rookies off the field, so these go into the luxury trade bracket while you fix other problems. Depending on cash gen and targets.. there is a realistic chance you end up with all 3 in your final team.
I definitely don’t know if they will or work out.. could be a stroke of genius. But history says players starting at this price rarely become season keepers.. so nailing 1 is great, nailing 3 is “go buy a lotto ticket” territory.
