Discussion SC 2021: Rookie Discussion

[Brisbane Lions]

Anyone else planning to include Bruhn, especially if we are light on rookies?

There's a lot of dislike for him as a pick due to his role in the side, but he would seem to have far better job security than Brockman and Downie and being a highly rated midfielder as a junior I feel like he could gather more than the 11 disposals he did against Sydney. The goals are obviously going to regress but it's not out of the question for him to have a more complete games given the type of player he was as a junior. I also am a bit bamboozled as to how he only scored 63, that along with Daniher's practice game score have me very confused. He has barely played for two years, which is somewhat concerning, but also might indicate that he has untapped upside that was missed by recruiters. The coach came out with a pretty big wrap for what he'd shown in preseason and GWS historically don't allow their young players to debut with ease.

Some have said that the pressure forward role in the GWS side has always lead to poor scores. I think it's a bit simplistic to just say that because they've had a few other pressure forwards who have scored poorly that others will do the same, and I'm not sure he even has the same type of role in the side. When Butler moved to St Kilda he was not determined to score the same at St Kilda as Matt Parker because they were both pressure forwards in the same side and their scoring ended up being poles apart. Every player is different and will score differently, and I'm not convinced he's limited by the same skill set and role as a Matt Parker/Zac Langdon. Of course it's unrealistic to say he will score like Butler did, that's not my point, just that every player will score differently in that role or a similar role. He's not grown up as a goal scoring small forward either, so he should have an easier time finding the ball in the forward line than those recruited as small goal scoring forwards.

If he was 30k cheaper everyone would start him due to his job security, and whilst I don't like having to pay that extra money I feel like he has job security and more upside than people currently believe.

I think there are just better options:



Green are rookies on my team currently - with the plethora of DPP forward options I don't think Bruhn will be needed. Obviously that could all change come team announcements, at this stage we're just playing the waiting game.

 

[Vicwood]

Yep Meek's JS just went through the roof - he has pretty much a guaranteed 2-3 games to establish himself in the side and if he can be solid enough to get the Freo coaching panel feeling comfortable with using Darcy primarily forward then he (Meek) will probably stick for another 6-7 weeks at least I reckon.

Makes or Breaks your whole season. You play 2 rookie rucks and one gets injured or rested your whole team needs to be restructured and it’s season over.

 

[pizza safety]

I think there are just better options:

View attachment 27141

Green are rookies on my team currently - with the plethora of DPP forward options I don't think Bruhn will be needed. Obviously that could all change come team announcements, at this stage we're just playing the waiting game.

Hopefully they all get named but I'd be worried about the job security of Downie, Brockman and Fullarton and out of those I only actually expect Brockman to get named for round one. Clarkson has been talking mostly about Koschitzke and Brockman when speaking of round one debutants and would the Lions play Daniher and Fullarton together? Even Anthony Scott's job security is hard to full gauge but I do expect him to play round 1 and am reasonably confident on his js.

 

[All is Wells]

Hopefully they all get named but I'd be worried about the job security of Downie, Brockman and Fullarton and out of those I only actually expect Brockman to get named for round one. Clarkson has been talking mostly about Koschitzke and Brockman when speaking of round one debutants and would the Lions play Daniher and Fullarton together? Even Anthony Scott's job security is hard to full gauge but I do expect him to play round 1 and am reasonably confident on his js.

Add Bergman, Highmore and Warner to this who dont seem much better than 50/50 to play rd 1

 

[Bones]

Add Bergman, Highmore and Warner to this who dont seem much better than 50/50 to play rd 1

Is Valente an option? How likely is he to get games soon?

 

[pizza safety]

Add Bergman, Highmore and Warner to this who dont seem much better than 50/50 to play rd 1

Add those to the list, although I'm quietly confident on Bergman. Warner you'd expect to get in based on his practice game performance, but you can never really know (there's barely any info on him) and Highmore seems totally up in the air.

 

[pizza safety]

Is Valente an option? How likely is he to get games soon?

I think he's still a shot at being named for round 1 if he's fit, but I'd say it's unlikely and if he debuts its probably a couple of weeks later. Longmuir has shown that he gives the kids midfield time so I reckon he's a decent option if named, I'd prefer him over a number of others if he was.

 

[Brisbane Lions]

Hopefully they all get named but I'd be worried about the job security of Downie, Brockman and Fullarton and out of those I only actually expect Brockman to get named for round one. Clarkson has been talking mostly about Koschitzke and Brockman when speaking of round one debutants and would the Lions play Daniher and Fullarton together? Even Anthony Scott's job security is hard to full gauge but I do expect him to play round 1 and am reasonably confident on his js.

Lions like to play with a third mobile marking option up forward. Fullarton will slot in for McStay I reckon. Clarkson said "I’d expect there to be two or three."- referring to rookies named.

I think all three will be named and I loved the look of Downie especially in the preseason. In their best 22 imo and is an absolute talent... hoping he takes his opportunity with both hands.

 

[Dimmawit]

Not really. I think it was Big Russ? Who said he saw the fear on Dows face when he was about to get crunched going for a hardball or something to that affect, in the game vs the Saints. That plus the comments I read on the bigfooty Carlton game thread about losing his man at the centre bounces. Greg Williams saying he is soft. Mate, these are the sort of things worth making a judgment call on as the eye test from multiple watchers/fans are usually a better indication then media build up imo. It's unusual for a guy to take 4 years to break into a team like Carlton (unless a ruck/Key fwd) if he is any good.

Yeah for sure - not saying he is the next coming of jesus but going from a bloke that's being raved about in the PS and clearly is going to be given a shot rd 1 to being out of the team rd 3 (I know NT mightnt have been being literal) is, within the realms of a public forum, a big call

I listen to NT's thoughts as much as anyone. I'll be happy to Dow can do 65 but I agree the guy looks like a plodder I just hope he can do enough for 8 or 9 rounds

 

[McLovin]

Anyone else planning to include Bruhn, especially if we are light on rookies?

There's a lot of dislike for him as a pick due to his role in the side, but he would seem to have far better job security than Brockman and Downie and being a highly rated midfielder as a junior I feel like he could gather more than the 11 disposals he did against Sydney. The goals are obviously going to regress but it's not out of the question for him to have a more complete games given the type of player he was as a junior. I also am a bit bamboozled as to how he only scored 63, that along with Daniher's practice game score have me very confused. He has barely played for two years, which is somewhat concerning, but also might indicate that he has untapped upside that was missed by recruiters. The coach came out with a pretty big wrap for what he'd shown in preseason and GWS historically don't allow their young players to debut with ease.

Some have said that the pressure forward role in the GWS side has always lead to poor scores. I think it's a bit simplistic to just say that because they've had a few other pressure forwards who have scored poorly that others will do the same, and I'm not sure he even has the same type of role in the side. When Butler moved to St Kilda he was not determined to score the same at St Kilda as Matt Parker because they were both pressure forwards in the same side and their scoring ended up being poles apart. Every player is different and will score differently, and I'm not convinced he's limited by the same skill set and role as a Matt Parker/Zac Langdon. Of course it's unrealistic to say he will score like Butler did, that's not my point, just that every player will score differently in that role or a similar role. He's not grown up as a goal scoring small forward either, so he should have an easier time finding the ball in the forward line than those recruited as small goal scoring forwards.

If he was 30k cheaper everyone would start him due to his job security, and whilst I don't like having to pay that extra money I feel like he has job security and more upside than people currently believe.

I don't see a case for Bruhn being more than a slow burner with decent JS at best. GWS is a terrible place to try to make it as a small forward. Comparisons to other sides with different styles of play aren't useful, and small forwards who don't get up the ground (a big source of points for Butler) aren't productive scorers whether they're experienced in the role or not. Greene gets the free role and the other GWS smalls take up the slack defensively. Cameron hasn't consistently picked Lloyd and Reid because he thinks they're dangerous or skilful forwards (at least, I hope not, you never know with him).

 

[donnybuang]

Makes or Breaks your whole season. You play 2 rookie rucks and one gets injured or rested your whole team needs to be restructured and it’s season over.

Not really. It wouldn't be ideal, but if they both got injured/dropped you can sideways one of them & Neale to Gawn/rookie. Or dump two failed midpricers.

 

[pizza safety]

Lions like to play with a third mobile marking option up forward. Fullarton will slot in for McStay I reckon. Clarkson said "I’d expect there to be two or three."- referring to rookies named.

I think all three will be named and I loved the look of Downie especially in the preseason. In their best 22 imo and is an absolute talent... hoping he takes his opportunity with both hands.

That's a good point but did you always use 3 talls up forward even when Martin was out injured? If McStay comes back in 3 weeks would he go out immediately ?

 

[pizza safety]

I don't see a case for Bruhn being more than a slow burner with decent JS at best. GWS is a terrible place to try to make it as a small forward. Comparisons to other sides with different styles of play aren't useful, and small forwards who don't get up the ground (a big source of points for Butler) aren't productive scorers whether they're experienced in the role or not. Greene gets the free role and the other GWS smalls take up the slack defensively. Cameron hasn't consistently picked Lloyd and Reid because he thinks they're dangerous or skilful forwards (at least, I hope not, you never know with him).

How do you know he has the same role is the point I'm getting at, Cameron spoke about his skill level and his craftiness, which reminds him of Toby Greene. If that's how he sees him I don't think he would confine him to the Zac Langdon role and we shouldn't assume he would be. In fact he showed way better nous around the ball in the Sydney game than Langdon ever showed. I said he's not the same as Butler and said that wasn't my point, my point is that every player is different and won't be given the same role.

 

[Rumbler]

Two days out from the new season and I can confidently say that I'm still not confident about any of the rookies yet.

 

[Zimmer]

Two days out from the new season and I can confidently say that I'm still not confident about any of the rookies yet.

Can’t remember a preseason being less clear on options.

And as a consequence less sure re. structure.

 

[freowho]

Is Valente an option? How likely is he to get games soon?

Valente probably the best donut to play if the rookies don't turn up. Easier to carry one on the mid bench.

 

[McLovin]

How do you know he has the same role is the point I'm getting at, Cameron spoke about his skill level and his craftiness, which reminds him of Toby Greene. If that's how he sees him I don't think he would confine him to the Zac Langdon role and we shouldn't assume he would be. In fact he showed way better nous around the ball in the Sydney game than Langdon ever showed. I said he's not the same as Butler and said that wasn't my point, my point is that every player is different and won't be given the same role.

Well yes Langdon, Reid, Lloyd, Daniels and Hill are all different players. The thing they have in common is that they've been stuck in the same role in the same team, and the only two to have benefitted are Lloyd and Reid. Even then they've only benefitted in the sense that they're still on the list, which I doubt would be the case pretty much anywhere else.

 

[Brisbane Lions]

That's a good point but did you always use 3 talls up forward even when Martin was out injured? If McStay comes back in 3 weeks would he go out immediately ?

Yeah when Martin went out, big Archie Smith came in and we ran 3 talls. I don't think the Lions will rush McStay back in from his strained medial ligament if Fullarton can play similar to how he played on his debut last year. Took a nice grab and looked quite comfortable for a first gamer deep - developed a lot since then as well. Hoping for a round 5-6(+) return for McStay please SC gods

 

[pizza safety]

Well yes Langdon, Reid, Lloyd, Daniels and Hill are all different players. The thing they have in common is that they've been stuck in the same role in the same team, and the only two to have benefitted are Lloyd and Reid. Even then they've only benefitted in the sense that they're still on the list, which I doubt would be the case pretty much anywhere else.

There's no way of knowing whether that's their poor skill set or a tactic from the coach, in Hill's case I highly doubt he could do very well playing up the ground, Lloyd and Reid couldn't manage to find the ball in that role. A lot of teams have poor scoring flankers, pressure forwards etc, but not all are going to be the same when they come into the side, if you have a different level of ability you might get more opportunity to play with creativity. Daniels still averaged over 60 in his second season and has at times been given some freedom to play up the ground and all I'm really saying Bruhn is capable of and that he's not automatically doomed to low 50's. Lloyd is going to be out for the first half of the year and it looks like De Boer might be playing a forward pressure role.

 

[Hondo]

Well yes Langdon, Reid, Lloyd, Daniels and Hill are all different players. The thing they have in common is that they've been stuck in the same role in the same team, and the only two to have benefitted are Lloyd and Reid. Even then they've only benefitted in the sense that they're still on the list, which I doubt would be the case pretty much anywhere else.

Speaking generally about GWS rookies, no matter how good they look to us they don’t seem to always get the good consistent run at it that we want.

Green last year is one example. Hately another.

There would be examples the other way I’ve forgotten.