Discussion 2021: Round 1: Teams & In Game Discussion

[randomcliche]

And so the shades of grey begin. Vlaustin gets subbed out which means the doctor has determined that it will keep him out for at least 12 days. At the end of game presser the coach says “they don’t know what it is” and “we hope he gets up next week”.

So what exactly is the role of the AFL chief medico during this week? To assess if he is right to play or; is it to assess if the club doctor made a defendable call on match day? Surely it should be latter but it is hard to see one doctor contradicting another.

Hopefully his role is to provide advice to the AFL on a) the player ability to play but also b) the thresholds club doctors are using around playing the following week. I reckon if too many get up next week, we'll see advice round 3 around what a 'reasonable doctor' would/should do ;-) to satisfy his/herself that it 12 days not 12 minutes. I'm not doc, and I'd like a doc to put together some guidance reasonable [e.g. Knee: PCL/ACL instability] [unreasonable: knee: knock with soreness (al la tonight???), hyper extension with tenderness] [reasonble: foot: suspected metatarsel fracture, unreasonable foot: impact with swelling/bruising] etc, etc, etc

 

[aj74]

Elite running mids, who kick a lot and get CPs. Who can we narrow that down to: maybe Neale, Danger, Kelly, Merrett, Bont. I think Steele will still be a good pick, but now with Cripps and Walsh, probably can't fit him in unless I go back to 3 rook rucks.

Sidebottom and Phillips up forward have elite endurance and Phillips has had outstanding durability to date. Really think I need to get Flip back into the squad after what I saw tonight

Edit: Grundy is an endurance beast too. Not sure how Gawn rates but Big Reg is still going to be one of the better rucks going around, surely

 

[Under The Dome]

It might not be a good game to have Campbell and Gulden on field in too.

They looked fine last game. Think it was wet for parts of that GWS/SYD game. I could be wrong though but Gulden is a Butters type so could thrive in any forward contests.

 

[Under The Dome]

Didn't see the game tonight as I was at work but heard a good part of it on the ABC radio. Sounded like there was several instances of the statue rule being applied for moving and several instances of it not being applied when players moved. Anyone confirm that? If so this is a rule that just must be applied consistently. Umps cannot miss one. Could the backup ump watch for this and be in communication with the on field umps?

I noticed a few early but it was pretty consistent after that with some standing and others standing a few metres off.

 

[lavenderbandit]

Hopefully his role is to provide advice to the AFL on a) the player ability to play but also b) the thresholds club doctors are using around playing the following week. I reckon if too many get up next week, we'll see advice round 3 around what a 'reasonable doctor' would/should do ;-) to satisfy his/herself that it 12 days not 12 minutes. I'm not doc, and I'd like a doc to put together some guidance reasonable [e.g. Knee: PCL/ACL instability] [unreasonable: knee: knock with soreness (al la tonight???), hyper extension with tenderness] [reasonble: foot: suspected metatarsel fracture, unreasonable foot: impact with swelling/bruising] etc, etc, etc

Everything you have written is sensible, reasonable and rational... meaning there is 0% chance it will be implemented by the AFL

 

[wogitalia]

It might not be a good game to have Campbell and Gulden on field in too.

Gulden was beastly in the wet against GWS, was so clean. Might actually suit him but the role is not one I'd want to start him in until he proves he can score in it.

Didn't see the game tonight as I was at work but heard a good part of it on the ABC radio. Sounded like there was several instances of the statue rule being applied for moving and several instances of it not being applied when players moved. Anyone confirm that? If so this is a rule that just must be applied consistently. Umps cannot miss one. Could the backup ump watch for this and be in communication with the on field umps?

There was only one I noticed and it was when Richmond didn't man the mark for a solid 10 seconds and were then allowed to run up and man the mark, had to be 50 for mine (was Short so happy to not cop the clanger).

There was one where SPS (iirc) tried to back pedal after he'd been told to stand and gave away 50, was the right call.

There was another where a Richmond player (iirc) was 2m over the mark, got told to move back about 4 times and then moved back, this one was super awkward as he clearly was petrified to move but was also clearly over the mark, really should have been 50.

There was another where a Richmond player blatantly waltzed through the protected zone and should have been an easy 50 but the umpire seemed distracted trying to get the man on the mark to stand and completely missed it. The two blown calls both would have led to almost certain goals for Carlton as well.

Realistically though for the first real hitout the rule was well implemented and adhered to, I'd say there were only two mistakes, one awkward piece of excessive leniency and otherwise didn't notice it.

The main rucks only took 3 marks combined, make of it what you will

They probably should have had about 3 more each, probably closer to 5 for Pittonet. Clearly he's afraid to mark as he always spoils if he thinks anyone will be near him, also dropped and ran under a couple of basic marks.

Nank just couldn't glove anything but he had chances as well.

The lack of hitouts and stoppages, especially in the 2nd half, was concerning, Pittonet could have easily had half a dozen intercept marks if he was better so that actually was a positive for Gawn. Far more concerned with Grundy to be honest, he's nowhere near as a good a ruckman and much more of a stoppage player, Gawn probably still going to get his hitout points but Grundy is going to have a lot less chances to do what he does best.

Dusty - Goat. every time he touched it Carlton were screwed. The only good thing to come from this as a non owner is the fact oppositions cannot let him run free, its suicide. Gary Lyon suggested double teaming him, he cannot be allowed to get 1 on 1s up forward. Mildly concerned not having him. We know he has quiet games but something feels a bit different with him this year.

Short - Eh, okay game. More scoring this season = more kick outs. Tagged for the most part and got 100. Probs goes 10 points less with Houlu, for only 510k I am okay. He demands the ball a lot which is great.

Dow - Okay at times, but saw lots of bad signs. TOG, disappearing, bad kicking, liked some of his stoppage work though. At 200k it doesnt really matter too much, just needs to play.

Doch - Role didnt look great at times, but freed up a bit in the 3rd. Should score okay, durability long term is my main issue with him.

Walsh - Machine, looks like he's continued on last years form but with more CBAS. Endurance attribute putting in work.

Cripps - Similar Cripps to previous 1.5 years, maybe a tad better. Possible endurance issues. Just looked a bit sluggish and second to the ball a lot in the second half.

The amount of times the Blues left Dusty without a man at all they probably could have just started with that. Their tackling was pathetic though, would have hated to be a Blues fan, if they'd just been bad in the tackling department they'd have won that game but they couldn't even hit that level. They were missing the kind of tackles that you'd be doing pushups for missing at training in a 5th grade amateur side.

 

[aj74]

Might need an extra 5k for my squad and thinking of downgrading Fyfe into Jarryd Lyons. How do we see these new game conditions affecting these two players? I know that Fyfe should be ok with them and maybe even benefit late in games when they can't keep up with him while he is just as classy as he was at the first bounce. But haven't got a clue about Lyons

 

[aj74]

The lack of hitouts and stoppages, especially in the 2nd half, was concerning, Pittonet could have easily had half a dozen intercept marks if he was better so that actually was a positive for Gawn. Far more concerned with Grundy to be honest, he's nowhere near as a good a ruckman and much more of a stoppage player, Gawn probably still going to get his hitout points but Grundy is going to have a lot less chances to do what he does best.

Yeah thinking about it too, Gawn is an excellent mark and will remain so, even as the double teaming opposition drop off over the course of a game through fatigue. Grundy's traditionally been a poor contested mark. He's improved in the last couple of years but it still isn't his strong suit.

Reckon Blicavs will absolutely kill it

 

[Montyjnr]

Just chose Dusty from this game and obviously happy with the return.

Was concerned about Cripps & Dow early but they completely dropped off in the 2nd half - will be interesting to see how they bounce back. Both would be must-haves with a 4 quarter effort.

 

[Manikato1]

I noticed a few early but it was pretty consistent after that with some standing and others standing a few metres off.

Gulden was beastly in the wet against GWS, was so clean. Might actually suit him but the role is not one I'd want to start him in until he proves he can score in it.




There was only one I noticed and it was when Richmond didn't man the mark for a solid 10 seconds and were then allowed to run up and man the mark, had to be 50 for mine (was Short so happy to not cop the clanger).

There was one where SPS (iirc) tried to back pedal after he'd been told to stand and gave away 50, was the right call.

There was another where a Richmond player (iirc) was 2m over the mark, got told to move back about 4 times and then moved back, this one was super awkward as he clearly was petrified to move but was also clearly over the mark, really should have been 50.

There was another where a Richmond player blatantly waltzed through the protected zone and should have been an easy 50 but the umpire seemed distracted trying to get the man on the mark to stand and completely missed it. The two blown calls both would have led to almost certain goals for Carlton as well.

Realistically though for the first real hitout the rule was well implemented and adhered to, I'd say there were only two mistakes, one awkward piece of excessive leniency and otherwise didn't notice it.



They probably should have had about 3 more each, probably closer to 5 for Pittonet. Clearly he's afraid to mark as he always spoils if he thinks anyone will be near him, also dropped and ran under a couple of basic marks.

Nank just couldn't glove anything but he had chances as well.

The lack of hitouts and stoppages, especially in the 2nd half, was concerning, Pittonet could have easily had half a dozen intercept marks if he was better so that actually was a positive for Gawn. Far more concerned with Grundy to be honest, he's nowhere near as a good a ruckman and much more of a stoppage player, Gawn probably still going to get his hitout points but Grundy is going to have a lot less chances to do what he does best.



The amount of times the Blues left Dusty without a man at all they probably could have just started with that. Their tackling was pathetic though, would have hated to be a Blues fan, if they'd just been bad in the tackling department they'd have won that game but they couldn't even hit that level. They were missing the kind of tackles that you'd be doing pushups for missing at training in a 5th grade amateur side.

Thanks for the update guys. The ABC commentators made it sound a lot worse than it was then. The SPS one was an example. There was also another when they said the Tigers player "cleary" took a sideways step and should have got nailed. Understand Pendles went on social media and said (paraphrasing) Moving back off the mark should be nothing. Moving sideways should be pinged every time. Interesting comment.

 

[wogitalia]

Thanks for the update guys. The ABC commentators made it sound a lot worse than it was then. The SPS one was an example. There was also another when they said the Tigers player "cleary" took a sideways step and should have got nailed. Understand Pendles went on social media and said (paraphrasing) Moving back off the mark should be nothing. Moving sideways should be pinged every time. Interesting comment.

Don't get me wrong, the SPS one looks stupid but it was a spot on call by the umpire, was clearly told to stand and then started moving.

The allowing Short to man the mark was the only egregious one I noticed where he was clearly outside the 5m well after any stand call would have been issued and then moved up onto the mark.

 

[Under The Dome]

Thanks for the update guys. The ABC commentators made it sound a lot worse than it was then. The SPS one was an example. There was also another when they said the Tigers player "cleary" took a sideways step and should have got nailed. Understand Pendles went on social media and said (paraphrasing) Moving back off the mark should be nothing. Moving sideways should be pinged every time. Interesting comment.

Was a few more outside 55/60 metre shots that I noticed with the man on the mark unable to move. I didn't think the Buddy arc would be in play but looks like it has been used alot more from around the league.

 

[McLovin]

Gulden was beastly in the wet against GWS, was so clean. Might actually suit him but the role is not one I'd want to start him in until he proves he can score in it.

True that. I was thinking it might be a very wet game, but it looks like the rain's been more consistent than really heavy in Brisbane over the last couple of days. From a footy perspective I hope the ball doesn't spend much time in the Swans forward line, wet games between the Swans and Lions have been a miserable experience as a Lions fan for a long time.

Was a few more outside 55/60 metre shots that I noticed with the man on the mark unable to move. I didn't think the Buddy arc would be in play but looks like it has been used alot more from around the league.

I hate that the kicker can now all but run past the player on the mark when kicking for goal. It's fantastic news for long kicks though.

 

[The Banker]

From memory Dow was in something like 27% of teams earlier in the week and 32% of teams on Wednesday. How the hell did that raise to 45%!?
Ripping start for over half the field with Dusty. Geez he loves Carlton in Round 1. Imagine one of his bigger scores for the year (not an owner here), but it’s points on the board.

 

[Under The Dome]

From memory Dow was in something like 27% of teams earlier in the week and 32% of teams on Wednesday. How the hell did that raise to 45%!?
Ripping start for over half the field with Dusty. Geez he loves Carlton in Round 1. Imagine one of his bigger scores for the year (not an owner here), but it’s points on the board.

Yeh I didn't like what I saw in the preseason hitout. Never went hard when he needed to and when he did he didn't need to and fluffed his disposals. Very poor on the defensive transition because he doesn't want to lay a tackle. Was never in my plans after that game.

 

[randomcliche]

From memory Dow was in something like 27% of teams earlier in the week and 32% of teams on Wednesday. How the hell did that raise to 45%!?
Ripping start for over half the field with Dusty. Geez he loves Carlton in Round 1. Imagine one of his bigger scores for the year (not an owner here), but it’s points on the board.

Yikes. Just went and had a look. Dusty not in team. Last minute switch to a defender given the lack of rookies. Grr. But how about Kozi? Hope the hawks put the #1 on his back, he is top of the pile by 4%! At least we can win this league table

 

[Cyrils_left_nut]

He was my worry child, was surprised to see his score at half time but thought no worries but watching the game, I can see plenty of these types of scores in the future. That real contested ball from stoppages where Cripps excels looks gone to me which has me worried about the rucks. He doesn’t get to enough contests and I honestly think this may affect Oliver also. If you can’t spread, take a mark, receive a handball and kick I think their scores could suffer.
I would be very surprised if Macrae, Kelly, Neale, Bont, Merrett are not top 5 mids this season.

This is a good point, we all noticed the players were tired throughout the game due to longer quarters and less rotations. Suits those with bigger tanks and good skills.
Seriously considering changing my mid premos 🤔

 

[Cyrils_left_nut]

Does Rowell have a big tank?

 

[scarfaceclaw]

I just want to know if Highmore is playing!? I dont really have a cunning back up plan if he doesn't play.

 

[Professor]

I just want to know if Highmore is playing!? I dont really have a cunning back up plan if he doesn't play.

unofficially yes, check the rookie thread. @Goodie's Guns has some intel that suggests he's in the 22.