Position 2021: Ruck Discussion

[wogitalia]

Rookie rucks paid off for one rd. Fast fwd to when Flynn doesn't get up from his ankle, Meek is dropped for a rest and Hunter is flicked for Marshall...

With reward comes risk. Rookies (all of them) and managed game time is still an issue in my mind over the next few weeks. 2020 was such a cluster**** that many young players simply won't have the fitness base to keep it up long.

To be fair, the 3 rookie rucks are all mature bodied guys with multiple preseasons in the bag, Meek the youngest was a 2017 draftee. They're the least likely to get rested.

Hunter though has to be a concern with him basically not rucking the 2nd half, no idea how to take that but it's hard to turn it into a positive, he's either hurt or they genuinely preferred watching McKernan get abused because they thought it was the better outcome.

That said, it's obviously high risk, the mids and forwards have a solid 5 rookies that would be outside most teams to choose from, the rucks, well there are none!

 

[Ironhawk]

I agree with you thoughts on trading Gawn or Grundy. I'm thinking Hickey in........what do you think?

As I said, I'm waiting a round, and could well still not change things up if both Grundy/Gawn go 150+. Hickey is one of the ones on my short-list if you were looking at making the trade this round... but I probably prefer Martin at that sort of price range.

 

[NT.Thunder]

I agree with you thoughts on trading Gawn or Grundy. I'm thinking Hickey in........what do you think?

Said no one ever!

 

[wogitalia]

As I said, I'm waiting a round, and could well still not change things up if both Grundy/Gawn go 150+. Hickey is one of the ones on my short-list if you were looking at making the trade this round... but I probably prefer Martin at that sort of price range.

Definitely this, there is no reason to overreact on Gawn and Grundy, if they both bang out say 120 this week, they're completely off your trade radar and you feel fine.

Do I think they drop their starting point, most likely yes, do I think they'll be the top two, most likely yes. Ultimately I don't think they drop enough, remembering that the entire market is moving down with them, to justify trading unless they look disastrous again (looking at you Grundy!).

Realistically you're looking at a 10% drop off from the stoppage reduction to all established rucks.

 

[Grundogging]

Exert from the age. Will this help Grundy?

Former Melbourne ruckman Mark Jamar was at Collingwood headquarters on Monday afternoon, with the Pies preparing to name a new ruck coach.

Not right away as it's going to be a work in progress with Grundy and our midfield group for a while yet, but it's (finally) a step in the right direction.

 

[dlanod]

Collingwood had the lowest Inside 50 count equal with Carlton being 41 for the round. Doesn’t matter who you stick inside 50, if it isn’t getting in there, he ain’t going to catch it.

The trick is to hide your best player there so you can lower the inside 50 count further, and then blame the player for not having an impact. Classic CYA.

Yep it’s a long season, you really need 3 or 4 prices rises to claim a win. 140 is a great get from Flynn but remember it would’ve been more beneficial to come in round 3

He'll be up against Cameron or Cox in Round 4, so that's another 140 while Taylor nullifies Grundy out of the square.

 

[OnTopBar]

Looks like we'll get 2 more rookie rucks playing in round 5, Treacy and Coleman-Jones both of them with Fwd status, add Fullarton to the mix and I can see myself running with a full rookie ruck line until round 8-9 with what I hope is reasonable cash gen.

 

[Leroy]

To those looking at trading Grundy and Gawn... I'm not quite sure what the aim is?

Surely you either have to trade them to who you consider to be a season long top ruck (Goldy? NN? Lycett?) or you are committing to a second ruck trade somewhere down the line. If you go the cash cow route, you'd want to be picking someone who will make at least $200k+, given it will take two trades (one in, one out) to realise the gain and land back on another top ruck. Flynn might be the most likely to do that if you didn't have him already, but I'd be pretty wary of backing in a nearly 35yo Stef Martin or a perennial journeyman like Hickey.

 

[Grundogging]

Looks like we'll get 2 more rookie rucks playing in round 5, Treacy and Coleman-Jones both of them with Fwd status, add Fullarton to the mix and I can see myself running with a full rookie ruck line until round 8-9 with what I hope is reasonable cash gen.

Treacy is out until round 6. Suspended for 3 weeks and they only start playing over the easter weekend in the WAFL.

 

[Herbie66]

Looks like we'll get 2 more rookie rucks playing in round 5, Treacy and Coleman-Jones both of them with Fwd status, add Fullarton to the mix and I can see myself running with a full rookie ruck line until round 8-9 with what I hope is reasonable cash gen.

Very interested in Coleman-Jones myself.

Currently have Flynn , Fullarton , Hunter & Meek.

Problem might be trying to fit everyone in (expect Hunter to vanish when Ryder returns)

My forwards are now Dunkley , Martin , Zorko , Heeney + Ziebell.

Rowe onfield (Scott bench)

If McDonald & Warner looks must haves I am quickly running out of room to field them all.

Can swing my 3 x F/M to the mids but then miss out on fielding the mid rookies (based on 1 round Berry , Campbell , Powell , Scott all scored similar) , do McDonald & Warner score more than them ?

Might end up tricky trying to juggle everyone.

 

[Leroy]

Very interested in Coleman-Jones myself.

Currently have Flynn , Fullarton , Hunter & Meek.

Problem might be trying to fit everyone in (expect Hunter to vanish when Ryder returns)

My forwards are now Dunkley , Martin , Zorko , Heeney + Ziebell.

Rowe onfield.

If McDonald & Warner looks must haves I am quickly running out of room to field them all.

Can swing my 3 x F/M to the mids but then miss out on fielding the mid rookies.

Might end up tricky trying to juggle everyone.

I'm in a pretty similar situation (Flynn, Meek, Hunter, Fullarton), but I've got Warner already and no Heeney or Zorko so have a bit more room to manoeuvre.

If Hunter is still playing when CCJ and Treacy finally arrive that will be a miracle. Take the downgrade for $100k or whatever it is and move on.
I'm also thinking that Hunter could easily be a rookie correction trade to someone like Jordon in R3 (or Warner in your case), putting Fullarton into the ruck line.

McDonald is a wait and see. Will the Swans even remember to kick it to him with Buddy prowling around?

 

[Herbie66]

I'm in a pretty similar situation (Flynn, Meek, Hunter, Fullarton), but I've got Warner already and no Heeney or Zorko so have a bit more room to manoeuvre.

If Hunter is still playing when CCJ and Treacy finally arrive that will be a miracle. Take the downgrade for $100k or whatever it is and move on.
I'm also thinking that Hunter could easily be a rookie correction trade to someone like Jordon in R3 (or Warner in your case), putting Fullarton into the ruck line.

McDonald is a wait and see. Will the Swans even remember to kick it to him with Buddy prowling around?

Could be very easy to overload the forward line too early and miss out on a few very good rookies

Thankfully I put Fantasia in defence.

Depending on how Meek , Hunter , Hickey & S Martin score this week I could be moving Hunter on in Round 3 (I think he won't play the 6-8 games required) otherwise my ruck options will be very limited for 6-8 weeks.

I am missing Jordon & Warner (possibly McDonald , valid point about Franklin , how many games can he play though ?).

So might need to weigh up whether the mid rookies score better than the forward ones.

Could very well end up needing to field :-

1 + Heeney , Ziebell , McDonald , Warner , Rowe / Scott , Fullarton

so have to move 2 of Dunkley , Martin , Zorko to the mids

I am then 7 deep in the mids + Gulden

so Berry , Campbell , Powell are now sitting on my bench 🤔

+ I still want Fyfe as my 🍩 and have McNeil

based on that I may not need Jordon (or McDonald)

That's if Round 3 I upgrade Hunter (to Hickey/Martin) and get the best option out of Warner/McDonald/Jordon

Think that makes sense

 

[Montyjnr]

To those looking at trading Grundy and Gawn... I'm not quite sure what the aim is?

Surely you either have to trade them to who you consider to be a season long top ruck (Goldy? NN? Lycett?) or you are committing to a second ruck trade somewhere down the line. If you go the cash cow route, you'd want to be picking someone who will make at least $200k+, given it will take two trades (one in, one out) to realise the gain and land back on another top ruck. Flynn might be the most likely to do that if you didn't have him already, but I'd be pretty wary of backing in a nearly 35yo Stef Martin or a perennial journeyman like Hickey.

Trading Grundy/Gawn to a Top 8 midfielder (ie. Macrae, Oliver, Tom Mitchell) and switching Fullarton to R3 seems like a no brainer if they fail again and Flynn performs. That way I can get one of those 50-point mid rookies off field and play Flynn instead.

I avoided Rowell and started Jordon, Berry, Warner etc. so I can probably afford to make the correction next week instead of using a trade on a rookie.

 

[Herbie66]

To those looking at trading Grundy and Gawn... I'm not quite sure what the aim is?

Surely you either have to trade them to who you consider to be a season long top ruck (Goldy? NN? Lycett?) or you are committing to a second ruck trade somewhere down the line. If you go the cash cow route, you'd want to be picking someone who will make at least $200k+, given it will take two trades (one in, one out) to realise the gain and land back on another top ruck. Flynn might be the most likely to do that if you didn't have him already, but I'd be pretty wary of backing in a nearly 35yo Stef Martin or a perennial journeyman like Hickey.

That's the biggest thing to me.

Lot of panic about trading Gawn & Grundy out but after Round 1 who knows for certainty who #1 & # 2 for the season will be ?

Their were concerns with Grundy last season (think he averaged 108/109 in his last 10 games) , teams were already sharking his HO so the Bulldog mids didn't invent anything new on Friday night.

Gawn still scored a "respectable" enough 93.

Hunter & Meek in reality were actually dissapointing (compared to other similarly priced rookies) so owners certainly didn't gain a great advantage starting them at all.

Be fascinating seeing the ruck scores this round.

I will certainly be looking at one of Hickey/Martin if they back up again (if I need to fix Hunter) but realise it is probably only a short term (bandaid) solution.

Think the options for Gawndy owners are a hell of a lot better than Hunter & Meek owners personally.

 

[Deeman1]

That's the biggest thing to me.

Lot of panic about trading Gawn & Grundy out but after Round 1 who knows for certainty who #1 & # 2 for the season will be ?

Their were concerns with Grundy last season (think he averaged 108/109 in his last 10 games) , teams were already sharking his HO so the Bulldog mids didn't invent anything new on Friday night.

Gawn still scored a "respectable" enough 93.

Hunter & Meek in reality were actually dissapointing (compared to other similarly priced rookies) so owners certainly didn't gain a great advantage starting them at all.

Be fascinating seeing the ruck scores this round.

I will certainly be looking at one of Hickey/Martin if they back up again (if I need to fix Hunter) but realise it is probably only a short term (bandaid) solution.

Think the options for Gawndy owners are a hell of a lot better than Hunter & Meek owners personally.

Very true.

The way I see it there are 2 problems for Gawndy owners (with Flynn at R3).

1. Gawndy means Flynn (potenitally the best 'rookie') is stuck on the bench and probably leaves another 'poor scoring; rookie on field in his place.

2. Cash loss if Gawndy average 10-15 points below last years averages/output.

I agree I am not in the camp that Meek or Hunter at this stage are any better than any other rookie yet, but for Gawndy owners that is not the problem, the problem is 1 above.

If things go only marginally better this week, Gawndy owers have a tough call to make. Gawndy could potentially be R1 and R2 for the year, but not by the margin that has been in the past. Small sample size admittedly but the big win for 1 rookie ruck on field assuming it was Flynn was the large points gain due to his round 1 score.

I certainly won't be traing both, but if things play out this week as they did last week, I think one probably has to go, for mine its probably Grundy, but time will tell.

FWIW if I do trade Grundy it will not be for Meek/Hunterm but will be for a additional FWD (Heeney?) or MID (Mitchell?) to get another rookie of field.

 

[freowho]

Very true.

The way I see it there are 2 problems for Gawndy owners (with Flynn at R3).

1. Gawndy means Flynn (potenitally the best 'rookie') is stuck on the bench and probably leaves another 'poor scoring; rookie on field in his place.

2. Cash loss if Gawndy average 10-15 points below last years averages/output.

I agree I am not in the camp that Meek or Hunter at this stage are any better than any other rookie yet, but for Gawndy owners that is not the problem, the problem is 1 above.

If things go only marginally better this week, Gawndy owers have a tough call to make. Gawndy could potentially be R1 and R2 for the year, but not by the margin that has been in the past. Small sample size admittedly but the big win for 1 rookie ruck on field assuming it was Flynn was the large points gain due to his round 1 score.

I certainly won't be traing both, but if things play out this week as they did last week, I think one probably has to go, for mine its probably Grundy, but time will tell.

FWIW if I do trade Grundy it will not be for Meek/Hunterm but will be for a additional FWD (Heeney?) or MID (Mitchell?) to get another rookie of field.

Marshall back in rnd 3 would be a godsend for Gawndy owners. Maybe even rnd 4 with 1 price drop.

 

[Chumpion]

Marshall back in rnd 3 would be a godsend for Gawndy owners. Maybe even rnd 4 with 1 price drop.

If ruck scoring is impacted as much as it seems (to the point you're trading Gawn and/or Grundy) is Marshall the lock we thought? In seasons past a ruck in the forward line was a godsend.. but this year we may not even want the 2 rucks on that line!

 

[Herbie66]

Very true.

The way I see it there are 2 problems for Gawndy owners (with Flynn at R3).

1. Gawndy means Flynn (potenitally the best 'rookie') is stuck on the bench and probably leaves another 'poor scoring; rookie on field in his place.

2. Cash loss if Gawndy average 10-15 points below last years averages/output.

I agree I am not in the camp that Meek or Hunter at this stage are any better than any other rookie yet, but for Gawndy owners that is not the problem, the problem is 1 above.

If things go only marginally better this week, Gawndy owers have a tough call to make. Gawndy could potentially be R1 and R2 for the year, but not by the margin that has been in the past. Small sample size admittedly but the big win for 1 rookie ruck on field assuming it was Flynn was the large points gain due to his round 1 score.

I certainly won't be traing both, but if things play out this week as they did last week, I think one probably has to go, for mine its probably Grundy, but time will tell.

FWIW if I do trade Grundy it will not be for Meek/Hunterm but will be for a additional FWD (Heeney?) or MID (Mitchell?) to get another rookie of field.

Going to be a fascinating round to see the ruck scores and what options are available and then see what people do.

I guess Marshall (when he returns) needs to be factored in as well possibly.

Gawn/Grundy , Flynn , F/R link might be the setup (maybe) until the clear leading Rucks emerge.

 

[Professor]

Fear the beard, he's coming.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374139660511764480

 

[freowho]

If ruck scoring is impacted as much as it seems (to the point you're trading Gawn and/or Grundy) is Marshall the lock we thought? In seasons past a ruck in the forward line was a godsend.. but this year we may not even want the 2 rucks on that line!

Marshall doesn't have to do as much as a forward to be a keeper and provide cover for the rucks and he's not a lumbering stoppage chaser. Plus I think AFL coaches will work things out pretty quickly to help the rucks score better than they did in rnd 1. Gawn and Grundy is a lot of money to tie up if they aren't reliable captains and 20 points clear of the other rucks.