Position 2022: Ruck Discussion
- Thread starter KLo30
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Not after last year I wont!!! Chasing lost points is a fool's game that I've played too many times!
Seriously though, Gawn's first 6 last year was 141. His next was 113 when Jackson was slowly eating into his ruck minutes.
113 is a great average but not at a 121 price.
I'm not sold Grundy is any better, he seems to have kind of settled into what he is.
Darcy has durability issues but he's arguably underpriced on how he played last year, kind of the inverse of Gawn's season.
NicNat has durability issues but he's fairly priced, if I was chasing 115 average I probably prefer him over Gawn as a starting pick.
That said, I can buy Gawn going bigger, he has proven he can but I do think the Jackson aspect is definitely a big factor and I do think that last year was a good indicator as the season went on.
My biggest issue is actually finding any kind of alternative to start with.
I like Darcy, the upside for me and actually doing a preseason is what I want from him.
Grundy has the best upside of the 3 others but I don't feel entirely right on that pick.
Maybe a Hickey type will appear to play around with for the first month.
Seriously though, Gawn's first 6 last year was 141. His next was 113 when Jackson was slowly eating into his ruck minutes.
113 is a great average but not at a 121 price.
I'm not sold Grundy is any better, he seems to have kind of settled into what he is.
Darcy has durability issues but he's arguably underpriced on how he played last year, kind of the inverse of Gawn's season.
NicNat has durability issues but he's fairly priced, if I was chasing 115 average I probably prefer him over Gawn as a starting pick.
That said, I can buy Gawn going bigger, he has proven he can but I do think the Jackson aspect is definitely a big factor and I do think that last year was a good indicator as the season went on.
My biggest issue is actually finding any kind of alternative to start with.
I like Darcy, the upside for me and actually doing a preseason is what I want from him.
Grundy has the best upside of the 3 others but I don't feel entirely right on that pick.
Maybe a Hickey type will appear to play around with for the first month.
All reasonable points. Honestly looking across all the different lines and the only 3 players in my mind that are set and forgets are Macrae, Oliver and Gawn (opinions may differ)
I can acknowledge that there is risk tied to selecting Gawn but compared to the other (premium) players across all the different lines, I find picking Gawn to be a more risk averse option, especially on the ruck line
Each to their own I suppose, I can barely settle on ONE premium in my DEF & FWD line, locking in Gawn and a few others seems a lot easier than trying to risk not having him 😅
I can acknowledge that there is risk tied to selecting Gawn but compared to the other (premium) players across all the different lines, I find picking Gawn to be a more risk averse option, especially on the ruck line
Each to their own I suppose, I can barely settle on ONE premium in my DEF & FWD line, locking in Gawn and a few others seems a lot easier than trying to risk not having him 😅
We had that debate last season too. He may have maintained top spot, but Gawn's average still dropped by 19 points from his previous season or 8 from his next best if we consider 2020 to be an outlier. If you're picking Gawn, I think you have to be backing him to maintain a 120+ average. At this point it would almost take a Jackson injury for me to pick Gawn.
On paper Grundy's a no-brainer. A 27 year old player capable of back to back 130 seasons coming off a 115- lock him in, right?
I'm just not feeling it though. He's had two tough seasons and now finds himself in a side that's only just started rebuilding and hasn't been able to access high draft picks for years. The style of play that's made him such a SC beast depends a lot on him being used as an outlet in uncontested ball movement instead of a traditional marking target like most rucks. Last season Collingwood experimented with using Grundy in different ways, I'm not sure how much of that had to do with him not being 100% fit and how much was a struggling side looking to change things up.
The other issue is Grundy's impact at stoppages. He doesn't exactly have the most complete ruck clock around and depends more on quantity of hitouts and repeat stoppages to rack up HTA, tackles, and contested possessions. I really struggle to see Collingwood's mids giving Grundy enough support this season, especially if/when Adams gets injured.
I'm just not feeling it though. He's had two tough seasons and now finds himself in a side that's only just started rebuilding and hasn't been able to access high draft picks for years. The style of play that's made him such a SC beast depends a lot on him being used as an outlet in uncontested ball movement instead of a traditional marking target like most rucks. Last season Collingwood experimented with using Grundy in different ways, I'm not sure how much of that had to do with him not being 100% fit and how much was a struggling side looking to change things up.
The other issue is Grundy's impact at stoppages. He doesn't exactly have the most complete ruck clock around and depends more on quantity of hitouts and repeat stoppages to rack up HTA, tackles, and contested possessions. I really struggle to see Collingwood's mids giving Grundy enough support this season, especially if/when Adams gets injured.
The only question I have for you is - if not Gawn, who else would you pick? And pick with confidence
On the other lines there are more options (similar premiums) up for discussion but Darcy, Grundy, NicNat all have player specific risk tied to them. And they aren’t even that much cheaper (NicNat/Grundy only 30k cheaper).
On the other lines there are more options (similar premiums) up for discussion but Darcy, Grundy, NicNat all have player specific risk tied to them. And they aren’t even that much cheaper (NicNat/Grundy only 30k cheaper).
Yeah that's a fair point! Certainly more room to be aggressive with extra trades.
The consensus here seems to be Darcy will be the highest scoring ruck (AVG), whereas I'm probably more in the line of thinking that any of the three (Gawn, Grundy, Darcy) could still take that mantle. So naturally the added durability of the other two appeals to me.
The consensus here seems to be Darcy will be the highest scoring ruck (AVG), whereas I'm probably more in the line of thinking that any of the three (Gawn, Grundy, Darcy) could still take that mantle. So naturally the added durability of the other two appeals to me.
Maybe Brisbane's ruckman Oscar McInnerney, 28yo, $509,600, 205cm, approx. $150K/$120K cheaper than Gawn/Grundy, money can be used to upgrade elsewhere.
A slow start last season (read somewhere he had a poor preseason), but finished very strongly. Of all the AFL ruckmen, he attended the most ruck contests in the last 10 games last year. Pre Bye he Avg. 78 and after the Bye (incl Finals), he avg. 110.
He has been training hard during his holidays, Zorko said. F a g a n said "OMc is a most professional player, his craft, his gym work and his running. ....he's tracking to become one of the really great ruckman of the competition".
He also has a good midfield to tap to.
A slow start last season (read somewhere he had a poor preseason), but finished very strongly. Of all the AFL ruckmen, he attended the most ruck contests in the last 10 games last year. Pre Bye he Avg. 78 and after the Bye (incl Finals), he avg. 110.
He has been training hard during his holidays, Zorko said. F a g a n said "OMc is a most professional player, his craft, his gym work and his running. ....he's tracking to become one of the really great ruckman of the competition".
He also has a good midfield to tap to.
Maybe would be my answer for DPP.
Lynch is possibly slightly ahead of Reeves from some reports I have read which is a concern. I think they will share ruck duties somehow this season, and you would expect McEvoy will be playing too. I was considering Reeves early on, and he should still make cash, but he could be a risky pick. I would think McEvoy is the one to spend more time forward, but not sure what happens with the others. I originally thought Reeves was ahead of Lynch as the main ruck, but maybe not.
Lynch is possibly slightly ahead of Reeves from some reports I have read which is a concern. I think they will share ruck duties somehow this season, and you would expect McEvoy will be playing too. I was considering Reeves early on, and he should still make cash, but he could be a risky pick. I would think McEvoy is the one to spend more time forward, but not sure what happens with the others. I originally thought Reeves was ahead of Lynch as the main ruck, but maybe not.
Just how much more support is F a g a n planning to give? Hmmm, probably F a g a n doesn't know himself until some games have been played.
The same question is being asked about Gawn and Grundy, how much more support will they get.
Brisbane did bring in Ruckman Fort from Geelong, but possibly, Daniher will continue to pinch hit in the ruck, not Fort.
Fort probably is insurance if McInnerney misses games.
The same question is being asked about Gawn and Grundy, how much more support will they get.
Brisbane did bring in Ruckman Fort from Geelong, but possibly, Daniher will continue to pinch hit in the ruck, not Fort.
Fort probably is insurance if McInnerney misses games.
It's a tough one. Darcy, assuming he continues to have a good pre-season, looks like the only obvious pick to me. I was pretty down on him at the start of last season and thought Freo should go with Meek instead, so obvious I know what I'm talking about. Darcy proved me completely wrong, I thought he'd stay an injury prone big guy who lacked mobility and won lots of hitouts without advantaging his team. He improved in pretty much every aspect of the game, and that was without a great pre-season. He genuinely looks fit this season for probably the first time which makes expecting even more this season reasonable, and the loss of some of that extra weight should help him injury wise too. He's definitely still a risky pick, but for me he's the most likely ruck to average 120+.
The rest are hard to pick with any confidence. There are a few with obvious upside, it's just hard to find one who might be capable of reaching the 110-115 mark. NicNat got there last season, but it's hard to see him improving on 22 games at 115.
Hickey- limited upside, especially now that they've added Ladhams
Goldstein- you'd be brave to expect a return to SC relevance at 33
Marshall- he'd be an automatic pick if Ryder wasn't there. As is he still has upside, but I don't seem him being capable of much more than 105. Picking him with the expectation that he'll become FWD eligible is an option, albeit a risky one.
ROB- again there's upside , but it's probably too limited for him to be anything other than a disappointing pick.
Lycett- he's been around for some time and the best average he's managed is 101.
Oscar- the second half of his season shows his obvious upside. There's nothing subtle about him game, almost all his involvements are contested so it would be massive for his SC prospects if he could get more than the occasional possession on the outside. His tap work continues to improve, his DE probably needs to do the same and get above 60% on average. The most likely of the bunch to improve his average substantially, but I'm still not sure if it will be enough.
English- he'd only be worth it as a temporary ruck. He's turning 25 this season and still can't compete in the ruck. Performed strongly as a 3rd tall/2nd ruck for a fair bit of last season, not sure what Bevo's plans are this time. The Bulldogs haven't made any changes to their ruck setup which could be a positive for English, or could just be Bevo being Bevo.
Otherwise Preuss and Witts are there as value options, one with massive JS concerns and one coming off an acl. Not for me at this stage.
Ultimately the most important thing here is setting expectations. How many points will a player averaging 100/105/110 be losing to the top 3-4 rucks? Last season the top 4 were tightly packed in the 115-120 range and the rest didn't get close to that.
The rest are hard to pick with any confidence. There are a few with obvious upside, it's just hard to find one who might be capable of reaching the 110-115 mark. NicNat got there last season, but it's hard to see him improving on 22 games at 115.
Hickey- limited upside, especially now that they've added Ladhams
Goldstein- you'd be brave to expect a return to SC relevance at 33
Marshall- he'd be an automatic pick if Ryder wasn't there. As is he still has upside, but I don't seem him being capable of much more than 105. Picking him with the expectation that he'll become FWD eligible is an option, albeit a risky one.
ROB- again there's upside , but it's probably too limited for him to be anything other than a disappointing pick.
Lycett- he's been around for some time and the best average he's managed is 101.
Oscar- the second half of his season shows his obvious upside. There's nothing subtle about him game, almost all his involvements are contested so it would be massive for his SC prospects if he could get more than the occasional possession on the outside. His tap work continues to improve, his DE probably needs to do the same and get above 60% on average. The most likely of the bunch to improve his average substantially, but I'm still not sure if it will be enough.
English- he'd only be worth it as a temporary ruck. He's turning 25 this season and still can't compete in the ruck. Performed strongly as a 3rd tall/2nd ruck for a fair bit of last season, not sure what Bevo's plans are this time. The Bulldogs haven't made any changes to their ruck setup which could be a positive for English, or could just be Bevo being Bevo.
Otherwise Preuss and Witts are there as value options, one with massive JS concerns and one coming off an acl. Not for me at this stage.
Ultimately the most important thing here is setting expectations. How many points will a player averaging 100/105/110 be losing to the top 3-4 rucks? Last season the top 4 were tightly packed in the 115-120 range and the rest didn't get close to that.
It's kinda slim pickings isn't it?
My setups basically swing between two of Darcy/Grundy/Gawn or one of them with Preuss. I don't like much of what's on offer in between.
The two I had as possibles I've cooled on: English as 'temporary' ruck to swing forward later will just frustrate as a pick. If he's main ruck in a game he goes 100+ (a lot due to the extra possessions from being around the ball it seems) but check out all the 50s and 60s from when he plays forward... yuk. If Stef gets injured or looks too old, definitely worth a look.
I think Big O boosted his scoring by getting to more contests and winning more HTA. But if Daniher goes back to giving (quite effective) ruck relief I can't see a narrative where Oscar goes 115+. Which I think both Gawn and Grundy still can.
My setups basically swing between two of Darcy/Grundy/Gawn or one of them with Preuss. I don't like much of what's on offer in between.
The two I had as possibles I've cooled on: English as 'temporary' ruck to swing forward later will just frustrate as a pick. If he's main ruck in a game he goes 100+ (a lot due to the extra possessions from being around the ball it seems) but check out all the 50s and 60s from when he plays forward... yuk. If Stef gets injured or looks too old, definitely worth a look.
I think Big O boosted his scoring by getting to more contests and winning more HTA. But if Daniher goes back to giving (quite effective) ruck relief I can't see a narrative where Oscar goes 115+. Which I think both Gawn and Grundy still can.