Position 2022: Ruck Discussion

[Bermi]

I would think it would be the same criteria as allocating DP at the start of a season. 35%+ time spent in the forward line over the first 6 rounds.

I don't think they have told us the criteria they will be using to allocationg DP?
It certainly would help if they do soon.

 

[dlanod]

He did incredibly well to play 173 games in such a professional era without ever seeming to put in much effort. Probably the only player I can think of who was capable of being the best or worst player on the ground in any position.

A great summary.

I remember him completely dominating a red hot Tarrant down back early on.

I remember him destroying Collingwood up forward a few years later too. But plenty of almost no impact games there too.

I swear my most favourite memories are him at centre bounces, where he'd scoop the ball up one hand and weave his way through any congestion you care to mention into space like you wouldn't believe. And then he'd kick like he couldn't care less where it would head and send it out of bounds on the full.

I remember him as a ruck... getting completely destroyed because he would never lift his leg to protect himself from a knee to the gut. So apart from that, absolutely.

I honestly still miss watching him.

 

[Wheedus]

Should be a basement ruck forward, think he's long odds to play though personally, wouldn't start ahead of Marshall,Ryder or Campbell.

If he's a R/F at $102k, his job is done. Everything else is upside.

 

[The Night Manager]

I don't think they have told us the criteria they will be using to allocationg DP?
It certainly would help if they do soon.

I don't understand, why would it be different than the criteria that they already use for allocating DP?

 

[Shaunpro1]

If he's a R/F at $102k, his job is done. Everything else is upside.

Im torn with it, think you're probably more likely to get cash gen out of picking Comben or Sam Hayes but having that extra 20k initally is handy.

 

[Wheedus]

Im torn with it, think you're probably more likely to get cash gen out of picking Comben or Sam Hayes but having that extra 20k initally is handy.

Not to mention the value of being able to play VC/C game (I've stopped calling it a loophole given it's been around for ~10 years now).

I just find the R3 spot is the safest position for the VC/C donut. Using one on other lines is often fraught with danger, particularly in the early rounds where you get a dud score on your chosen Emerg.

He also provides a good link to English / Jackson (if you're looking to start them in the FWDs) or Marshall (for those taking the punt he'll get R/F status)

 

[pizza safety]

Oscar McInerney has less risk than Marshall.
The risk that is facing McInerney is the unkown risk of Fort affecting his SC scoring. Besides this unknown risk, I can't see another risk to McInerney. Marshall has the injury risk and Ryder.

The extremes with Fort is, he doesn't play at all, or he takes 50% of McInerney's ruck work. I think it is somewhere in between, with McInerney doing the majority of the ruck work. McInerney proved, end of last year, that he could ruck for most of the game alone, but that is not sustainable for the long run, so he needs to be managed and that is where Fort comes in.

Looking at scores after the Byes, McInerney had a slightly better floor than Marshall.

When it comes to fitness and staying on the park, McInernery is well ahead.

Even value wise, McInerney is $27k cheaper.

I just feel that I am missing something, as to why McInerney is not more popular with the SuperCoaches.

I think Marshall is much less risky in terms of scoring with a much better floor but is much more of an injury risk.

Marshall averaged 113 in games last season where he had 70% or more time on ground, all the while playing with an injury. He’s gone 110 in 2019 which included an average of 120 in his last 12 games and averaged 103 sharing the ruck with Ryder in 2020.

big O showed what he’s capable of in the second half of 2021 but also scored very poorly in the first half of the season, I think there’s much more of a risk with him scoring poorly than Marshall because of that and he also doesn’t have the body of evidence of 100+ scoring that Marshall has. There’s huge potential there but the early season scores from last year are worrisome.

Marshall’s injury risk is all that really worries me, if Ryder plays enough games at some stage and disrupts his scoring he should at least get DPP at mid year and I’ll swing him forward and if he rucks solo enough I think he will average close to 110 avg and not be too far off Darcy or Gawn. If he gets DPP then starting without Gawn is not going to cost me as I think he drops cash and wouldn’t be worth starting

 

[pizza safety]

Bloody Curnow!!! Now that I have the reason to not pick him, I start to feel like he'll be the one who gets away

That second ruck premium just feels difficult this year, I just am struggling to find a FOR column that isn't staggeringly outweighed by the AGAINST.

The fact that Gawn has been so steadily in my side when I think he presents negative value and I chase value like it's going out of fashion, should say it all!

Maybe someone will put their hand up this weekend!

You’re exactly right, I’m currently oscillating between thinking Gawn is the safe and intelligent option and then thinking I’m throwing money away and seeing Marshall as the answer to my problems because he’s potentially underpriced, could get DPP and could ruck long periods solo.

Then I look at the early draw and Marshall has Grundy and Darcy to start the year and Gawn has English/Martin, Witts off the ACL and Draper

 

[PC]

You’re exactly right, I’m currently oscillating between thinking Gawn is the safe and intelligent option and then thinking I’m throwing money away and seeing Marshall as the answer to my problems because he’s potentially underpriced, could get DPP and could ruck long periods solo.

Then I look at the early draw and Marshall has Grundy and Darcy to start the year and Gawn has English/Martin, Witts off the ACL and Draper

Fear the Beard!

 

[Shaunpro1]

Not to mention the value of being able to play VC/C game (I've stopped calling it a loophole given it's been around for ~10 years now).

I just find the R3 spot is the safest position for the VC/C donut. Using one on other lines is often fraught with danger, particularly in the early rounds where you get a dud score on your chosen Emerg.

He also provides a good link to English / Jackson (if you're looking to start them in the FWDs) or Marshall (for those taking the punt he'll get R/F status)

I doubt Ill start a loop this year, we get one by Round 4 by default anyway and there should be consistent Covid outs throughout the season.

 

[jaca]

I doubt Ill start a loop this year, we get one by Round 4 by default anyway and there should be consistent Covid outs throughout the season.

What will you do if Macrae (VC) scores 183 on opening night?

 

[Shaunpro1]

What will you do if Macrae (VC) scores 183 on opening night?

Fall off my chair, best game of all time if he goes 180 on Melbournes midfield.

 

[AngryAnt]

I doubt Ill start a loop this year, we get one by Round 4 by default anyway and there should be consistent Covid outs throughout the season.

Missed out on a couple of decent captain scores early on last season with a full compliment of rookies but the cash gen is the priority imo, gotta get a full compliment of appreciating assets.

 

[Shaunpro1]

Missed out on a couple of decent captain scores early on last season with a full compliment of rookies but the cash gen is the priority imo, gotta get a full compliment of appreciable assets imo.

Ive always thought cash generation is more important than having a loop but most people dont agree, I'll only run one if it looks like there won't be a playing Ruck 3 option anyway.

 

[AngryAnt]

Ive always thought cash generation is more important than having a loop but most people dont agree, I'll only run one if it looks like there won't be a playing Ruck 3 option anyway.

We get forced loops anyway, rookies miss games, Bergman and Highmore were ones I used a few times last season, Highmore was out for like 8 weeks.

 

[stephen]

The movement away from loops is one of the interesting developments of last few years. Back in my day the question was one or two, not zero or one.

Couldn't live without one myself (and still have no aversion to starting two). Missing out on some cash gen not a completely irrational argument, but my 16th best cash cow has never done me much good in the past.

 

[jaca]

I must say I've had Big O in several drafts. Problem is that "all" going Gawn to Oscar achieves for me is turning a cheap rookie into Coleman.

 

[Chumpion]

The movement away from loops is one of the interesting developments of last few years. Back in my day the question was one or two, not zero or one.

Couldn't live without one myself (and still have no aversion to starting two). Missing out on some cash gen not a completely irrational argument, but my 16th best cash cow has never done me much good in the past.

Completely agree re: 16th rookies usually doing minimal (at best).. my main reason for not wanting too many is often the last few rookies in the team are speculative or risky, so I like to have as many goes at landing a viable one as possible! But there is nothing worse than ending up with non playing spud rookies that have a horrible fixture for loopholes instead of just starting one that has a great draw.

 

[pizza safety]

The movement away from loops is one of the interesting developments of last few years. Back in my day the question was one or two, not zero or one.

Couldn't live without one myself (and still have no aversion to starting two). Missing out on some cash gen not a completely irrational argument, but my 16th best cash cow has never done me much good in the past.

I think it's only really worth skipping the loophole when there's a rookie ruckman playing round one. I don't see a point picking a player who may get games which will cost me extra money who I will have to trade for nothing if a good rookie ruck other than himself emerges. Much better off grabbing a cheap as possible R/F loophole and trading a stalling cash cow in the forward line to the rookie ruck. If Hayes plays round 1, which seems unlikely, I'll forego the loophole this year and I'll pick him, otherwise I'm going for a cheap loophole.

 

[pizza safety]

Oscar McInerney has less risk than Marshall.
The risk that is facing McInerney is the unkown risk of Fort affecting his SC scoring. Besides this unknown risk, I can't see another risk to McInerney. Marshall has the injury risk and Ryder.

The extremes with Fort is, he doesn't play at all, or he takes 50% of McInerney's ruck work. I think it is somewhere in between, with McInerney doing the majority of the ruck work. McInerney proved, end of last year, that he could ruck for most of the game alone, but that is not sustainable for the long run, so he needs to be managed and that is where Fort comes in.

Looking at scores after the Byes, McInerney had a slightly better floor than Marshall.

When it comes to fitness and staying on the park, McInernery is well ahead.

Even value wise, McInerney is $27k cheaper.

I just feel that I am missing something, as to why McInerney is not more popular with the SuperCoaches.

Btw I should also say I totally get the McInerney pick and think it has huge upside in a year where Gawn and Darcy both look overpriced with big question marks hanging over them.

I just think from a scoring point of view Marshall has the better floor. If he's actually riskier is a lot harder to say because it's difficult to quantify the exact injury risk as well as the injury risk versus the risk of scoring poorly (especially if Fort comes in, I don't think he can score the same as Marshall can in a R/F role)