Discussion 2022 Round 4: Teams & In Game Discussion
- Thread starter KLo30
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Thought he was very lucky to score as well as he did, I had another 3 clangers they didn't give him, 2 of which were in the first half when the game was lost, also a poor miss on his set shot that cooked what was otherwise his clear best play of the day.
He was terrible in the first half, skirted the packs completely, didn't tackle, turned it over with half his touches and then gave away a horrible free kick at the end of the half.
2nd half he got some junk and was better but still was poor with the ball and putting in very little effort defensively.
Was just a terrible game by him, funny to go from playing out of control reckless last week to soft as, no pun intended, butter this week.
Going to be a rollercoaster and the bigger issue outside his poor play today was the role, seems to be the guy that Hinkley has picked as the reason they've lost the last 3 as his role is getting worse by the week, got a bit of a reprieve this week with Wines subbed out meaning he got some midfield time in the 2nd half but there are definitely concerns opening up.
He was terrible in the first half, skirted the packs completely, didn't tackle, turned it over with half his touches and then gave away a horrible free kick at the end of the half.
2nd half he got some junk and was better but still was poor with the ball and putting in very little effort defensively.
Was just a terrible game by him, funny to go from playing out of control reckless last week to soft as, no pun intended, butter this week.
Going to be a rollercoaster and the bigger issue outside his poor play today was the role, seems to be the guy that Hinkley has picked as the reason they've lost the last 3 as his role is getting worse by the week, got a bit of a reprieve this week with Wines subbed out meaning he got some midfield time in the 2nd half but there are definitely concerns opening up.
2/125 
Oliver took the 2nd half off, Leon better send the tag to Petracca next week (he's mad if he doesn't).
Butters was either too sore to be out there or couldn't be bothered. I considered putting the E on him instead of Xerri too. Hung around 10 metres off the back of packs and had multiple backwards uncontested disposals. Didn't get into the game at all until the 2nd half and then tried to do too much with the ball. When he did try to commit his body to contests he repeatedly got nowhere near the player or the ball. Don't try to play like Mitch Robinson if you're not built like him and you're not going to go that hard every time. He's also an annoying little prick which can't help at his size because it encourages the opposition to line him up whenever possible. Points to anyone who didn't follow the crowd on this one, it took two games for normal service to resume.
As for Gawn, this is fine for those of us who've never owned him. He was always going to start taking his marks and a Port side that had to resort to using Mayes as a defensive forward on Lever was perfect for him. I'm just glad he did it after lots of people jumped off.
Oliver took the 2nd half off, Leon better send the tag to Petracca next week (he's mad if he doesn't).
Butters was either too sore to be out there or couldn't be bothered. I considered putting the E on him instead of Xerri too. Hung around 10 metres off the back of packs and had multiple backwards uncontested disposals. Didn't get into the game at all until the 2nd half and then tried to do too much with the ball. When he did try to commit his body to contests he repeatedly got nowhere near the player or the ball. Don't try to play like Mitch Robinson if you're not built like him and you're not going to go that hard every time. He's also an annoying little prick which can't help at his size because it encourages the opposition to line him up whenever possible. Points to anyone who didn't follow the crowd on this one, it took two games for normal service to resume.
As for Gawn, this is fine for those of us who've never owned him. He was always going to start taking his marks and a Port side that had to resort to using Mayes as a defensive forward on Lever was perfect for him. I'm just glad he did it after lots of people jumped off.
Port vs Melbourne
General - Feels like a hit job BUT Port were embarrassing, just absolutely pathetic. Hinkley is going to have a very long week because a side under that much pressure to put up that meek and disgraceful an effort deserves to be put under a serious microscope. Melbourne took care of things .
Port - As mentioned, just embarrassing. To be 2nd to the ball all night and still almost lose the tackle count is the real tell tale sign of a coach that has well and truly lost the playing group. They're playing selfish and dumb football, both are bad on their own but together it's devastating. Play that summed it up the best was when Jonas ran past the ball and past Spargo who was going for the ball to make sure his man didn't get the goal, he got lucky that Spargo blew an easy chance but when your captain isn't thinking team first you have to ask questions, to Jonas' credit he had a phenomenal spoil going back with the flight later in the game that was one of their best plays as well. Their game plan genuinely seemed like they did the SWOT analysis only they got the SW and OT mixed up because everything they did was planned meticulously to expose Melbourne's strengths and highlight their own weaknesses...
Boak - Strong junk time from him, can't fault him continually working but would have been good to try a bit harder when the game was on the line. He's such a machine though, just relentless running for 4 quarters. A marvel to still be performing at the level he is at that age.
Bonner/Burton/Jonas/DBJ/Clurey/Houston/Bergman - Junk games from all, just cheap +6 chipping to give Melbourne time to setup behind the ball, honestly seemed like their game plan was to move it slowly sideways until they could create a turnover kick...
Drew - EASY best on field for Port. Really felt like he was the only guy who actually wanted to fight and win the game. Did a stellar job on Petracca. Honestly he should get all of the B&F votes for Port from this game.
Amon - Butchered several chances, his 2nd point was probably the next best example of them as a team, one of their best kicks looked absolutely shell-shocked to have a relatively easy set shot, almost played on 4 or 5 times trying to kick to worse kickers, before panicking and rushing a shot that missed badly. Guy like him you just want to go back and execute the simple shot and he just looked afraid of it. Seems a guy that has copped a spray from the coach and is petrified of doing the wrong thing so he ends up doing everything wrong.
SPP - His tackling was terrible, had multiple kill shots and missed tonight, was one on Harmes where Harmes shouldn't be awake and he just looked afraid to try and tackle hard. Whole game fell apart rapidly after that moment also.
Butters - See above post, was terrible. Only word for his game was soft. Seemed afraid to receive contact, even more afraid to deliver it, was legitimately shirking contests instead of straightlining the ball. One of the worst games I've seen from him. Have to assume he shouldn't have been playing as I've never questioned his attack on the ball or the man from the lack of want perspective, normally it's his over-zealousness that worries me, at least I hope it's that because the other option is it's a young player who thought he was playing mid being relegated after two weeks to a crap role and sulking, last week he was playing stupid and this week soft, both are reactions of someone that's pissed off at the coach!
Mead - Far from their worst but also didn't do anything to demand selection next week. On a positive, there's a half dozen guys below him so he's probably safe outside Ken going full scorched Earth.
Rozee - No idea what happened to him but he's a complete shadow of what he was in his first 5 games, not even compared to what he should be but just as a kid.
Lycett - No idea what their tactic was here, it seemed to be the old "Scott, you find the non-dangerous spot and stand there and let Gawn/Jackson take the dangerous spot and stand there"... He was embarrassed tonight.
Marshall - Turned back into a potato tonight. There's talent there but the whole Bambi persona and softness needs to get crushed yesterday.
Motlop/McEntee/Mayes - Should be the first 3 cut, all were really bad.
Wines - Went off with "nausea", was getting his pulse checked. I don't want to speculate but it's a very common theme across the sporting world over the last 12-18 months. He wasn't terrible but I have no idea how he scored 52, no way he deserved that. Still, one to watch as an upgrade target now when we find out what was actually wrong.
Demons - Best way to describe them was professional. Took all the things Port gave them and took care of business in a game that definitely had danger game potential as you normally expect a wounded animal to fight, luckily for the Demons this wounded animal just pissed and pooped all over itself and then rolled in it... They just look a well coached and confident team, there's that champion swagger of "we've got this" about them right now.
Gawn - I was puzzled why people were talking of trading him, hope not too many around here did as he's still Max. Basically tonight the marks stuck, didn't hurt that Port didn't seem to know he wasn't playing for them and kept letting him waltz into the D50 and take uncontested intercept marks but the big man was excellent. Basically he's a 150+ when he gloves everything, he's 90ish when he gloves nothing and he's 120 when it's somewhere in the middle. This is the Gawn we all know and love. Squashed my plans of getting him really cheap in a few weeks the bastid
Jackson - Keeps scoring, played the SC game perfectly by doing all his work in the time the game was won and then just riding the scaling train home. To be fair, Lycett and Marshall is easy pickings but he keeps rolling and he's looking an outstanding pick, honestly the question is whether it's too late because he's scoring 90+ with ease, outside the Tigers game that he ripped open, he's done nothing noteworthy in his 100+ average but he's not putting up 40s and 50s and looks like he wont.
May - Took basically all the kick-ins and was very solid again.
Petracca - Brilliantly tagged by Drew, still scored 90ish, that's a big result for his owners. Not many will tag him to that level, not many can. If he hadn't gone clanger happy he'd probably have got 110 as well, albeit part of that was Drew's hard work. I'd say there's a pretty strong correlation between Drew's 9 tackles and Petracca's 9 clangers.
Oliver - Someone just booked their spot on the upgrade target express, albeit he's got some ritzy company right now. Barring some monsters he's going to be awfully cheap in a couple of weeks given what he offers. Was a real going through the motions game for him, with the game over partway through the 2nd quarter they seemed to give the Sparrow/Harmes/Jordon/ANB guys a bit more burn today.
Bowey - Lever back definitely hurts him, he was playing a bit of a quasi Lever/Salem role the past couple of weeks, roaming to the contest and then impacting aerially or rebounding away. Today he felt much more disciplined to his man with Lever and May taking the majority of that. Being at less contests makes scoring harder.
Brayshaw - Started like a house on fire, couldn't tell if Port put work into him after that but definitely went quiet. Still seems to be filling Salem's primary rebounding role the last two weeks which is a lucrative role but I'd be careful that it's not fool's gold before targeting him if anyone was thinking about it after last week's bonanza.
General - Feels like a hit job BUT Port were embarrassing, just absolutely pathetic. Hinkley is going to have a very long week because a side under that much pressure to put up that meek and disgraceful an effort deserves to be put under a serious microscope. Melbourne took care of things .
Port - As mentioned, just embarrassing. To be 2nd to the ball all night and still almost lose the tackle count is the real tell tale sign of a coach that has well and truly lost the playing group. They're playing selfish and dumb football, both are bad on their own but together it's devastating. Play that summed it up the best was when Jonas ran past the ball and past Spargo who was going for the ball to make sure his man didn't get the goal, he got lucky that Spargo blew an easy chance but when your captain isn't thinking team first you have to ask questions, to Jonas' credit he had a phenomenal spoil going back with the flight later in the game that was one of their best plays as well. Their game plan genuinely seemed like they did the SWOT analysis only they got the SW and OT mixed up because everything they did was planned meticulously to expose Melbourne's strengths and highlight their own weaknesses...
Boak - Strong junk time from him, can't fault him continually working but would have been good to try a bit harder when the game was on the line. He's such a machine though, just relentless running for 4 quarters. A marvel to still be performing at the level he is at that age.
Bonner/Burton/Jonas/DBJ/Clurey/Houston/Bergman - Junk games from all, just cheap +6 chipping to give Melbourne time to setup behind the ball, honestly seemed like their game plan was to move it slowly sideways until they could create a turnover kick...
Drew - EASY best on field for Port. Really felt like he was the only guy who actually wanted to fight and win the game. Did a stellar job on Petracca. Honestly he should get all of the B&F votes for Port from this game.
Amon - Butchered several chances, his 2nd point was probably the next best example of them as a team, one of their best kicks looked absolutely shell-shocked to have a relatively easy set shot, almost played on 4 or 5 times trying to kick to worse kickers, before panicking and rushing a shot that missed badly. Guy like him you just want to go back and execute the simple shot and he just looked afraid of it. Seems a guy that has copped a spray from the coach and is petrified of doing the wrong thing so he ends up doing everything wrong.
SPP - His tackling was terrible, had multiple kill shots and missed tonight, was one on Harmes where Harmes shouldn't be awake and he just looked afraid to try and tackle hard. Whole game fell apart rapidly after that moment also.
Butters - See above post, was terrible. Only word for his game was soft. Seemed afraid to receive contact, even more afraid to deliver it, was legitimately shirking contests instead of straightlining the ball. One of the worst games I've seen from him. Have to assume he shouldn't have been playing as I've never questioned his attack on the ball or the man from the lack of want perspective, normally it's his over-zealousness that worries me, at least I hope it's that because the other option is it's a young player who thought he was playing mid being relegated after two weeks to a crap role and sulking, last week he was playing stupid and this week soft, both are reactions of someone that's pissed off at the coach!
Mead - Far from their worst but also didn't do anything to demand selection next week. On a positive, there's a half dozen guys below him so he's probably safe outside Ken going full scorched Earth.
Rozee - No idea what happened to him but he's a complete shadow of what he was in his first 5 games, not even compared to what he should be but just as a kid.
Lycett - No idea what their tactic was here, it seemed to be the old "Scott, you find the non-dangerous spot and stand there and let Gawn/Jackson take the dangerous spot and stand there"... He was embarrassed tonight.
Marshall - Turned back into a potato tonight. There's talent there but the whole Bambi persona and softness needs to get crushed yesterday.
Motlop/McEntee/Mayes - Should be the first 3 cut, all were really bad.
Wines - Went off with "nausea", was getting his pulse checked. I don't want to speculate but it's a very common theme across the sporting world over the last 12-18 months. He wasn't terrible but I have no idea how he scored 52, no way he deserved that. Still, one to watch as an upgrade target now when we find out what was actually wrong.
Demons - Best way to describe them was professional. Took all the things Port gave them and took care of business in a game that definitely had danger game potential as you normally expect a wounded animal to fight, luckily for the Demons this wounded animal just pissed and pooped all over itself and then rolled in it... They just look a well coached and confident team, there's that champion swagger of "we've got this" about them right now.
Gawn - I was puzzled why people were talking of trading him, hope not too many around here did as he's still Max. Basically tonight the marks stuck, didn't hurt that Port didn't seem to know he wasn't playing for them and kept letting him waltz into the D50 and take uncontested intercept marks but the big man was excellent. Basically he's a 150+ when he gloves everything, he's 90ish when he gloves nothing and he's 120 when it's somewhere in the middle. This is the Gawn we all know and love. Squashed my plans of getting him really cheap in a few weeks the bastid
Jackson - Keeps scoring, played the SC game perfectly by doing all his work in the time the game was won and then just riding the scaling train home. To be fair, Lycett and Marshall is easy pickings but he keeps rolling and he's looking an outstanding pick, honestly the question is whether it's too late because he's scoring 90+ with ease, outside the Tigers game that he ripped open, he's done nothing noteworthy in his 100+ average but he's not putting up 40s and 50s and looks like he wont.
May - Took basically all the kick-ins and was very solid again.
Petracca - Brilliantly tagged by Drew, still scored 90ish, that's a big result for his owners. Not many will tag him to that level, not many can. If he hadn't gone clanger happy he'd probably have got 110 as well, albeit part of that was Drew's hard work. I'd say there's a pretty strong correlation between Drew's 9 tackles and Petracca's 9 clangers.
Oliver - Someone just booked their spot on the upgrade target express, albeit he's got some ritzy company right now. Barring some monsters he's going to be awfully cheap in a couple of weeks given what he offers. Was a real going through the motions game for him, with the game over partway through the 2nd quarter they seemed to give the Sparrow/Harmes/Jordon/ANB guys a bit more burn today.
Bowey - Lever back definitely hurts him, he was playing a bit of a quasi Lever/Salem role the past couple of weeks, roaming to the contest and then impacting aerially or rebounding away. Today he felt much more disciplined to his man with Lever and May taking the majority of that. Being at less contests makes scoring harder.
Brayshaw - Started like a house on fire, couldn't tell if Port put work into him after that but definitely went quiet. Still seems to be filling Salem's primary rebounding role the last two weeks which is a lucrative role but I'd be careful that it's not fool's gold before targeting him if anyone was thinking about it after last week's bonanza.
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I hadn't intended on publishing this for another week or two, so it had more data samples included.
The table doesn't include tonight's game. If I had Gawn, this table would have tempted me to put the VC on him!
This is what I call a relative scores table. It includes no external data that might affect the numbers, like StKilda playing 3 Rucks last week.
Basically, what it is saying, is that the Rucks that have played Port in the first 3 Rounds, have averaged 32% higher against Port, than they have against their other opposition. Obviously the table would be more accurate, when it has more data, but interestingly, if you thought Gawn was a 120 Ruck this season, then the table predicts he would score 120 x 1.32 = 158.4 tonight, he scored 160. If you thought Lycett would be a 96 Ruck this season, then he'd score 96 x 0.66 = 64, he scored 58!!!!
Pretty accurate, even though there is a fair amount of coincidence involved, given the low samples ........... probably!
After tonight's game, Port has gone from 1.32 up to 1.40.
I'm also building a similare table for the Mids.
The table doesn't include tonight's game. If I had Gawn, this table would have tempted me to put the VC on him!
This is what I call a relative scores table. It includes no external data that might affect the numbers, like StKilda playing 3 Rucks last week.
Basically, what it is saying, is that the Rucks that have played Port in the first 3 Rounds, have averaged 32% higher against Port, than they have against their other opposition. Obviously the table would be more accurate, when it has more data, but interestingly, if you thought Gawn was a 120 Ruck this season, then the table predicts he would score 120 x 1.32 = 158.4 tonight, he scored 160. If you thought Lycett would be a 96 Ruck this season, then he'd score 96 x 0.66 = 64, he scored 58!!!!
Pretty accurate, even though there is a fair amount of coincidence involved, given the low samples ........... probably!
After tonight's game, Port has gone from 1.32 up to 1.40.
I'm also building a similare table for the Mids.
I was going to trade English in this week, which would mean my ruck line would be up against Richmond and Carlton
The Richmond number is currently skewed due to Flynn's 41.
Carlton have a pair of 29's from Soldo and Reeves skewing their number.