Position 2023: Ruck Discussion
- Thread starter KLo30
- Start date
Too right. Cameron was great when he first took on the primary ruck role - 109.7 average from 7 games pre-bye.
Then he got tired (or the coach preferred Cox, or whatever) and he averaged 86 from 9 games post-bye.
86 is not a complete disaster as a forward, but if that's what 2023 holds you'd probably want to look elsewhere for a keeper.
Then he got tired (or the coach preferred Cox, or whatever) and he averaged 86 from 9 games post-bye.
86 is not a complete disaster as a forward, but if that's what 2023 holds you'd probably want to look elsewhere for a keeper.
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MAX GAWN will undergo scans over the weekend after injuring his hamstring at training on Friday.
The ruckman was forced to leave the track early and will now have ongoing assessment to determine the extent of the concern.
“Max unfortunately had some hamstring awareness towards the end of this morning’s training session,” Melbourne’s GM of AFL Performance Alan Richardson told Melbourne Media.
“He will be closely monitored and assessed over the weekend. We're hopeful we will have some further clarity early next week."
The ruckman was forced to leave the track early and will now have ongoing assessment to determine the extent of the concern.
“Max unfortunately had some hamstring awareness towards the end of this morning’s training session,” Melbourne’s GM of AFL Performance Alan Richardson told Melbourne Media.
“He will be closely monitored and assessed over the weekend. We're hopeful we will have some further clarity early next week."
Somehow this seems to happen every year but god the rucks is a hard decision this year.
Some quick thoughts for mine:
Gawn - Grundy, this is a major problem as Max is clearly the better forward unlike with Jackson. I can't personally start him.
Witts - I think he's the early favourite for top ruck this year, taking out the ACL his durability has been exceptional. I don't think there's any reason he shouldn't score similarly to last year. Rowell, Anderson and Miller is a very good midfield group that should improve further this year. That said I think there's very limited upside on this pick and there's definitely a case for regression to the mean of his previous 5 years. Gun to my head though he's the top ruck.
English - Significant durability issues, there's upside here for sure but the durability record is a major issue at a position you ideally want to use very few trades.
Darcy - Significantly underpriced but durability record is also terrible. I don't think Jackson should be too much of a negative because Darcy can't really play forward effectively and Jackson has proven he can be the 2nd ruck without hurting the 1st ruck. Durability is, imo, the big risk. I say it every year but he'd need a flawless preseason.
ROB - There's a case here, durability is strong but I just think he's too limited and that the upside is a hard sell. The midfield is still sketchy and his ruck skills are a real limiter. He's probably the safest guy to be within 5 points of his start point while playing 22.
NicNat - Not for mine, there's definitely upside but his durability is a major problem again. As negative as that sounds, he's probably the one I'd pick first of everyone from here up
Blicavs - This is an interesting one, he can score when rucking or playing midfield but he also plays a lot of roles that he doesn't score. Durability exceptional. Questionable upside is his issue.
Nank - Not for mine, he's what he is.
Goldy - Ditto.
Grundy - Gawn, durability has become a genuine issue as well. Has only ever been good when in a dominant ruck role as it's more his midfield play than the ruckwork.
Marshall - Strong option, significant upside. Durability is a real mess again, even his 21 last year had problems in multiple games. Ross a complete unknown. I think the best pick so far on this list but I've definitely got questions to be answered in preseason.
Preuss - Durability and suspension issues, no idea with new coach. Just too many questions.
OMc - Definitely an intriguing option, I know some wanted him last year so he's even cheaper. Definitely a lot of questions here though as well. Will be on my watchlist but ultimately I think there's too many variables.
Cameron - He'd be the first pick for mine. If you can't tell I'm having a hard time picking anyone but the F6 standard is historically a fair way below the R2 standard and thus he's got a much lower standard to meet to be a keeper selection. Basically he's being picked as a forward and used to get a look at a very volatile position.
Hickey - Durability too big an issue for mine.
Jackson - Probably a similar case can be made as for Cameron but I'm not sold his role is distinctly different to the last two years, so you're going 100% on natural improvement and I'll be honest, guys who chase backup roles always scare me for their commitment which is a driving force behind natural improvement. Extreme talent but there's definitely concerns for me about his character and his role isn't good. Perhaps the big wildcard here is that Darcy is a lot less durable than Gawn so there's a much stronger chance of him falling into the #1 ruck role, I think he'd be a big time in season target if that happened.
Flynn - I mean if he was the clear #1 then maybe but I don't trust GWS and a new coach doesn't change that, especially given he has already thrown doubt on his judgement by saying Himmelberg is a forward.
Finlayson - Nope.
Meek - A very interesting one, if he was 150k cheaper I think he'd be an automatic but that price is beyond awkward. It's pretty much keeper pricing and as highly as I rate him, I'm not sure he can break to 110 this year. He should push towards 100 though, imo. I rate him very highly.
Lycett - Not for mine, there's upside but it's hard to sell, especially given how effective Finlayson was and that Teakle also looked really good.
Ladhams - Not while Hickey is in the way.
TDK - Not for me, I expect Pittonet is the #1.
Draper - A very interesting prospect, I will be watching him very closely in preseason as I rate him exceptionally highly and there's a lot of Gawn characteristics to him. I think he's right at that point where he breaks out, further helped by the fact that Brad Scott was a sole ruck coach his entire time at North basically. He wouldn't shock me if he pushed 110, just strikes me as that guy that when the penny drops is going to just jump huge. I feel pretty good he pushes 90 which at least would be a good fail.
Xerri - Nope.
Pittonet - He's underpriced, imo, but not enough.
Reeves - I think Meek should be the clear #1 but good chance they ruin each other. Reeves can score but he's a few years away.
Teakle - Definitely an interesting option if he's playing.
I guess right now I'd be leaning towards Cameron and the other spot is wide open, I can already tell that I will not like that second ruck choice this year, it's either going to be a risky rookie type or a guy with durability issues or that I think is overpriced!
Some quick thoughts for mine:
Gawn - Grundy, this is a major problem as Max is clearly the better forward unlike with Jackson. I can't personally start him.
Witts - I think he's the early favourite for top ruck this year, taking out the ACL his durability has been exceptional. I don't think there's any reason he shouldn't score similarly to last year. Rowell, Anderson and Miller is a very good midfield group that should improve further this year. That said I think there's very limited upside on this pick and there's definitely a case for regression to the mean of his previous 5 years. Gun to my head though he's the top ruck.
English - Significant durability issues, there's upside here for sure but the durability record is a major issue at a position you ideally want to use very few trades.
Darcy - Significantly underpriced but durability record is also terrible. I don't think Jackson should be too much of a negative because Darcy can't really play forward effectively and Jackson has proven he can be the 2nd ruck without hurting the 1st ruck. Durability is, imo, the big risk. I say it every year but he'd need a flawless preseason.
ROB - There's a case here, durability is strong but I just think he's too limited and that the upside is a hard sell. The midfield is still sketchy and his ruck skills are a real limiter. He's probably the safest guy to be within 5 points of his start point while playing 22.
NicNat - Not for mine, there's definitely upside but his durability is a major problem again. As negative as that sounds, he's probably the one I'd pick first of everyone from here up
Blicavs - This is an interesting one, he can score when rucking or playing midfield but he also plays a lot of roles that he doesn't score. Durability exceptional. Questionable upside is his issue.
Nank - Not for mine, he's what he is.
Goldy - Ditto.
Grundy - Gawn, durability has become a genuine issue as well. Has only ever been good when in a dominant ruck role as it's more his midfield play than the ruckwork.
Marshall - Strong option, significant upside. Durability is a real mess again, even his 21 last year had problems in multiple games. Ross a complete unknown. I think the best pick so far on this list but I've definitely got questions to be answered in preseason.
Preuss - Durability and suspension issues, no idea with new coach. Just too many questions.
OMc - Definitely an intriguing option, I know some wanted him last year so he's even cheaper. Definitely a lot of questions here though as well. Will be on my watchlist but ultimately I think there's too many variables.
Cameron - He'd be the first pick for mine. If you can't tell I'm having a hard time picking anyone but the F6 standard is historically a fair way below the R2 standard and thus he's got a much lower standard to meet to be a keeper selection. Basically he's being picked as a forward and used to get a look at a very volatile position.
Hickey - Durability too big an issue for mine.
Jackson - Probably a similar case can be made as for Cameron but I'm not sold his role is distinctly different to the last two years, so you're going 100% on natural improvement and I'll be honest, guys who chase backup roles always scare me for their commitment which is a driving force behind natural improvement. Extreme talent but there's definitely concerns for me about his character and his role isn't good. Perhaps the big wildcard here is that Darcy is a lot less durable than Gawn so there's a much stronger chance of him falling into the #1 ruck role, I think he'd be a big time in season target if that happened.
Flynn - I mean if he was the clear #1 then maybe but I don't trust GWS and a new coach doesn't change that, especially given he has already thrown doubt on his judgement by saying Himmelberg is a forward.
Finlayson - Nope.
Meek - A very interesting one, if he was 150k cheaper I think he'd be an automatic but that price is beyond awkward. It's pretty much keeper pricing and as highly as I rate him, I'm not sure he can break to 110 this year. He should push towards 100 though, imo. I rate him very highly.
Lycett - Not for mine, there's upside but it's hard to sell, especially given how effective Finlayson was and that Teakle also looked really good.
Ladhams - Not while Hickey is in the way.
TDK - Not for me, I expect Pittonet is the #1.
Draper - A very interesting prospect, I will be watching him very closely in preseason as I rate him exceptionally highly and there's a lot of Gawn characteristics to him. I think he's right at that point where he breaks out, further helped by the fact that Brad Scott was a sole ruck coach his entire time at North basically. He wouldn't shock me if he pushed 110, just strikes me as that guy that when the penny drops is going to just jump huge. I feel pretty good he pushes 90 which at least would be a good fail.
Xerri - Nope.
Pittonet - He's underpriced, imo, but not enough.
Reeves - I think Meek should be the clear #1 but good chance they ruin each other. Reeves can score but he's a few years away.
Teakle - Definitely an interesting option if he's playing.
I guess right now I'd be leaning towards Cameron and the other spot is wide open, I can already tell that I will not like that second ruck choice this year, it's either going to be a risky rookie type or a guy with durability issues or that I think is overpriced!
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Somehow this seems to happen every year but god the rucks is a hard decision this year.
Some quick thoughts for mine:
Gawn - Grundy, this is a major problem as Max is clearly the better forward unlike with Jackson. I can't personally start him.
Witts - I think he's the early favourite for top ruck this year, taking out the ACL his durability has been exceptional. I don't think there's any reason he shouldn't score similarly to last year. Rowell, Anderson and Miller is a very good midfield group that should improve further this year. That said I think there's very limited upside on this pick and there's definitely a case for regression to the mean of his previous 5 years. Gun to my head though he's the top ruck.
English - Significant durability issues, there's upside here for sure but the durability record is a major issue at a position you ideally want to use very few trades.
Darcy - Significantly underpriced but durability record is also terrible. I don't think Jackson should be too much of a negative because Darcy can't really play forward effectively and Jackson has proven he can be the 2nd ruck without hurting the 1st ruck. Durability is, imo, the big risk. I say it every year but he'd need a flawless preseason.
ROB - There's a case here, durability is strong but I just think he's too limited and that the upside is a hard sell. The midfield is still sketchy and his ruck skills are a real limiter. He's probably the safest guy to be within 5 points of his start point while playing 22.
NicNat - Not for mine, there's definitely upside but his durability is a major problem again. As negative as that sounds, he's probably the one I'd pick first of everyone from here up
Blicavs - This is an interesting one, he can score when rucking or playing midfield but he also plays a lot of roles that he doesn't score. Durability exceptional. Questionable upside is his issue.
Nank - Not for mine, he's what he is.
Goldy - Ditto.
Grundy - Gawn, durability has become a genuine issue as well. Has only ever been good when in a dominant ruck role as it's more his midfield play than the ruckwork.
Marshall - Strong option, significant upside. Durability is a real mess again, even his 21 last year had problems in multiple games. Ross a complete unknown. I think the best pick so far on this list but I've definitely got questions to be answered in preseason.
Preuss - Durability and suspension issues, no idea with new coach. Just too many questions.
OMc - Definitely an intriguing option, I know some wanted him last year so he's even cheaper. Definitely a lot of questions here though as well. Will be on my watchlist but ultimately I think there's too many variables.
Cameron - He'd be the first pick for mine. If you can't tell I'm having a hard time picking anyone but the F6 standard is historically a fair way below the R2 standard and thus he's got a much lower standard to meet to be a keeper selection. Basically he's being picked as a forward and used to get a look at a very volatile position.
Hickey - Durability too big an issue for mine.
Jackson - Probably a similar case can be made as for Cameron but I'm not sold his role is distinctly different to the last two years, so you're going 100% on natural improvement and I'll be honest, guys who chase backup roles always scare me for their commitment which is a driving force behind natural improvement. Extreme talent but there's definitely concerns for me about his character and his role isn't good. Perhaps the big wildcard here is that Darcy is a lot less durable than Gawn so there's a much stronger chance of him falling into the #1 ruck role, I think he'd be a big time in season target if that happened.
Flynn - I mean if he was the clear #1 then maybe but I don't trust GWS and a new coach doesn't change that, especially given he has already thrown doubt on his judgement by saying Himmelberg is a forward.
Finlayson - Nope.
Meek - A very interesting one, if he was 150k cheaper I think he'd be an automatic but that price is beyond awkward. It's pretty much keeper pricing and as highly as I rate him, I'm not sure he can break to 110 this year. He should push towards 100 though, imo. I rate him very highly.
Lycett - Not for mine, there's upside but it's hard to sell, especially given how effective Finlayson was and that Teakle also looked really good.
Ladhams - Not while Hickey is in the way.
TDK - Not for me, I expect Pittonet is the #1.
Draper - A very interesting prospect, I will be watching him very closely in preseason as I rate him exceptionally highly and there's a lot of Gawn characteristics to him. I think he's right at that point where he breaks out, further helped by the fact that Brad Scott was a sole ruck coach his entire time at North basically. He wouldn't shock me if he pushed 110, just strikes me as that guy that when the penny drops is going to just jump huge. I feel pretty good he pushes 90 which at least would be a good fail.
Xerri - Nope.
Pittonet - He's underpriced, imo, but not enough.
Reeves - I think Meek should be the clear #1 but good chance they ruin each other. Reeves can score but he's a few years away.
Teakle - Definitely an interesting option if he's playing.
I guess right now I'd be leaning towards Cameron and the other spot is wide open, I can already tell that I will not like that second ruck choice this year, it's either going to be a risky rookie type or a guy with durability issues or that I think is overpriced!
Some quick thoughts for mine:
Gawn - Grundy, this is a major problem as Max is clearly the better forward unlike with Jackson. I can't personally start him.
Witts - I think he's the early favourite for top ruck this year, taking out the ACL his durability has been exceptional. I don't think there's any reason he shouldn't score similarly to last year. Rowell, Anderson and Miller is a very good midfield group that should improve further this year. That said I think there's very limited upside on this pick and there's definitely a case for regression to the mean of his previous 5 years. Gun to my head though he's the top ruck.
English - Significant durability issues, there's upside here for sure but the durability record is a major issue at a position you ideally want to use very few trades.
Darcy - Significantly underpriced but durability record is also terrible. I don't think Jackson should be too much of a negative because Darcy can't really play forward effectively and Jackson has proven he can be the 2nd ruck without hurting the 1st ruck. Durability is, imo, the big risk. I say it every year but he'd need a flawless preseason.
ROB - There's a case here, durability is strong but I just think he's too limited and that the upside is a hard sell. The midfield is still sketchy and his ruck skills are a real limiter. He's probably the safest guy to be within 5 points of his start point while playing 22.
NicNat - Not for mine, there's definitely upside but his durability is a major problem again. As negative as that sounds, he's probably the one I'd pick first of everyone from here up
Blicavs - This is an interesting one, he can score when rucking or playing midfield but he also plays a lot of roles that he doesn't score. Durability exceptional. Questionable upside is his issue.
Nank - Not for mine, he's what he is.
Goldy - Ditto.
Grundy - Gawn, durability has become a genuine issue as well. Has only ever been good when in a dominant ruck role as it's more his midfield play than the ruckwork.
Marshall - Strong option, significant upside. Durability is a real mess again, even his 21 last year had problems in multiple games. Ross a complete unknown. I think the best pick so far on this list but I've definitely got questions to be answered in preseason.
Preuss - Durability and suspension issues, no idea with new coach. Just too many questions.
OMc - Definitely an intriguing option, I know some wanted him last year so he's even cheaper. Definitely a lot of questions here though as well. Will be on my watchlist but ultimately I think there's too many variables.
Cameron - He'd be the first pick for mine. If you can't tell I'm having a hard time picking anyone but the F6 standard is historically a fair way below the R2 standard and thus he's got a much lower standard to meet to be a keeper selection. Basically he's being picked as a forward and used to get a look at a very volatile position.
Hickey - Durability too big an issue for mine.
Jackson - Probably a similar case can be made as for Cameron but I'm not sold his role is distinctly different to the last two years, so you're going 100% on natural improvement and I'll be honest, guys who chase backup roles always scare me for their commitment which is a driving force behind natural improvement. Extreme talent but there's definitely concerns for me about his character and his role isn't good. Perhaps the big wildcard here is that Darcy is a lot less durable than Gawn so there's a much stronger chance of him falling into the #1 ruck role, I think he'd be a big time in season target if that happened.
Flynn - I mean if he was the clear #1 then maybe but I don't trust GWS and a new coach doesn't change that, especially given he has already thrown doubt on his judgement by saying Himmelberg is a forward.
Finlayson - Nope.
Meek - A very interesting one, if he was 150k cheaper I think he'd be an automatic but that price is beyond awkward. It's pretty much keeper pricing and as highly as I rate him, I'm not sure he can break to 110 this year. He should push towards 100 though, imo. I rate him very highly.
Lycett - Not for mine, there's upside but it's hard to sell, especially given how effective Finlayson was and that Teakle also looked really good.
Ladhams - Not while Hickey is in the way.
TDK - Not for me, I expect Pittonet is the #1.
Draper - A very interesting prospect, I will be watching him very closely in preseason as I rate him exceptionally highly and there's a lot of Gawn characteristics to him. I think he's right at that point where he breaks out, further helped by the fact that Brad Scott was a sole ruck coach his entire time at North basically. He wouldn't shock me if he pushed 110, just strikes me as that guy that when the penny drops is going to just jump huge. I feel pretty good he pushes 90 which at least would be a good fail.
Xerri - Nope.
Pittonet - He's underpriced, imo, but not enough.
Reeves - I think Meek should be the clear #1 but good chance they ruin each other. Reeves can score but he's a few years away.
Teakle - Definitely an interesting option if he's playing.
I guess right now I'd be leaning towards Cameron and the other spot is wide open, I can already tell that I will not like that second ruck choice this year, it's either going to be a risky rookie type or a guy with durability issues or that I think is overpriced!
Good summary, I'm leaning Cameron/Marshall, but still interested in English and Meek.
English - Would prefer to start him than trade him in, since he does have durability issues. Seems every single player Bevo puts as 2nd ruck, leaves the club (Young/Stef/Dunkley/Cordy etc) - Don't think Schache will be in the team, can't see Bruce/Darcy rucking much from the backline, sounds like Lobb doesn't want to ruck at all. 90% CBA's?
Marshall - I think Campbell is a big problem. Even if he doesn't get up for Round 1. That being said, Marshall feels like a good defensive pick, especially if Campbell isn't in the Round 1 side (I do hate defensive picks though)
Cameron - If Cox is in the picture, a similar problem... But hopefully Cox plays under 8 games this year so theoretically would get 14+ games for Cameron as R1. The idea that he can cover the rucks later in the year is enticing.
Meek - I think he's out of the picture now, with some unfortunate pricing, but if Reeves is not in the R1 side, I'd take another look.
For me, English is my "back-up" plan, if something puts me off Marshall (or Cameron)
English - Would prefer to start him than trade him in, since he does have durability issues. Seems every single player Bevo puts as 2nd ruck, leaves the club (Young/Stef/Dunkley/Cordy etc) - Don't think Schache will be in the team, can't see Bruce/Darcy rucking much from the backline, sounds like Lobb doesn't want to ruck at all. 90% CBA's?
Marshall - I think Campbell is a big problem. Even if he doesn't get up for Round 1. That being said, Marshall feels like a good defensive pick, especially if Campbell isn't in the Round 1 side (I do hate defensive picks though)
Cameron - If Cox is in the picture, a similar problem... But hopefully Cox plays under 8 games this year so theoretically would get 14+ games for Cameron as R1. The idea that he can cover the rucks later in the year is enticing.
Meek - I think he's out of the picture now, with some unfortunate pricing, but if Reeves is not in the R1 side, I'd take another look.
For me, English is my "back-up" plan, if something puts me off Marshall (or Cameron)
If it makes you feel better, Draper just slid into my first draft
It's really hard this year, I feel like the best option in Cameron isn't even very good.
I actually really like Darcy if he has a strong preseason, I think he's probably the best option. Scarily NicNat is another guy who is pretty much the exact same story of a great preseason would make him a very interesting target.
It's really hard this year, I feel like the best option in Cameron isn't even very good.
I actually really like Darcy if he has a strong preseason, I think he's probably the best option. Scarily NicNat is another guy who is pretty much the exact same story of a great preseason would make him a very interesting target.
