Position 2023: Ruck Discussion

Bomber18

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I personally just don’t see the good scoring as sustainable because he’s only getting points from his ground level work and is splitting the ruck. I am keen on him if Cox isn’t in the round one side though because as the solo ruck with McStay pinch hitting he has big upside. I imagine Cox is in the side and pies try to keep one of Mihocek, McStay, Cox and DC on the bench at any given time to keep the smaller forward line
Unsure if no Cox means a dramatic upside for DC to be honest.

Even in the four games without Cox playing (including the sub game), DC wasn’t rucking say 80%+ of the RCs, still in that same high 50% to 60% range (with one game at 68% where he scored 90).

R/F priced at 85 with scoring last year at 96.5 after the Grundy injury. In a year without a clear R2, seems a decent choice to me!
 
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Feel like after Marshall all the other rucks have issues.

Witts - quite clearly overpriced, scores came down to earth after a hot first half of the year and his DT to SC ratio was as high as it’s ever been, had better years in DT in the past than last year but never gone above 100 in SC before. Too many indicators point to regression. Run of early opponents was as easy as it gets.

Darcy - Scored well without massive ruck minutes back in 2021 but that came off some unsustainable performances up forward and he will spend even more time forward this year. Was far less impressive last year with him not looking 100% and now Jackson probably comes in to take a large chunk of the ruck share. Makes sense for them to play Darcy forward more where he’s decent and won’t get as hurt. Don’t love the pick atm but he has shown that upside in 2021 without huge ruck contests, so worth a watch. Also an injury risk.

English - Slow start to preseason, followed by a strain, followed by tightness doesn’t make me feel safe that the upside justifies the risk of injury. Concussion risk is also an issue. The scoring last year is impressive but has also been overrated, there’s only a small sample size of elite scoring and a genuinely small number of games where he went ballistic. Would pick without recent injury woes but won’t now.

Reilly O’Brien - I actually think he’s a cheaper version of Witts, pretty ugly to watch but he’s shown over 4 years that he’s a 95-low 100’s player and I think he’s a safe pick if no other options show up. Paying up for Witts seems crazy to me when ROB probably scores just as well, but don’t think ROB has any upside either or offers value.

Grundy - My pick of the bunch, which is crazy, but he has some potential value at least. With a better midfield underneath him and if he’s still as good as he was in 2021, I think he can go high 90’s - 105 with 60% of the ruck share and 70% of his game time played in the ruck. To guess this I’ve looked at previous scoring and points per minute, adjusted for a better midfield and deducted pts for every extra minute he’ll play as a forward, he still ends up averaging around 100. I do think he’s the main ruck, reports came out back in August that Gawn was willing to give up the no 1 ruck spot to get him at the club, seen word they got him in to help with Gawn’s injury concerns and workload in older age, and they’re paying him 700k a year, telling me they intend to play him in the only position he can really play. Has risks of course but the pick is better than I originally thought when looked at closely. Still don’t love it but it’s the best I can find.

****ing rucks.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts and this is some great detailed analysis.

Interested on your thoughts on NicNat? Written off because of age as I think he has enormous upside at his price.
 
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Unsure if no Cox means a dramatic upside for DC to be honest.

Even in the four games without Cox playing (including the sub game), DC wasn’t rucking say 80%+ of the RCs, still in that same high 50% to 60% range (with one game at 68% where he scored 90).

R/F priced at 85 with scoring last year at 96.5 after the Grundy injury. In a year without a clear R2, seems a decent choice to me!
I still reckon that over a larger sample size higher ruck contests will mean more points. Don’t think he can get too many points playing forward as he’s played there for a while and never scored a whole lot. If he’s on his own with only McStay I’d expect contests to end up higher
 

Bomber18

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I still reckon that over a larger sample size higher ruck contests will mean more points. Don’t think he can get too many points playing forward as he’s played there for a while and never scored a whole lot. If he’s on his own with only McStay I’d expect contests to end up higher
Not sure on if the backup would be McStay anyway, IIRC Pies also picked up Billy Frampton who might be the one that plays if Cox say is injured?

I’m probably not looking for that 100-105 upside for DC to select him. Happy to get a 95 avg out of him as an R/F priced at 85.
 
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts and this is some great detailed analysis.

Interested on your thoughts on NicNat? Written off because of age as I think he has enormous upside at his price.
NicNat I don’t have a good read on but I do worry about age and the number of injury issues he’s had in recent years and whether he can stay fit and whether the accumulation of injuries will catch up to him in terms of scoring power now he’s fairly old
 
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I'd be keen on Luke Jackson I reckon if we new early that Sean Darcy would miss games early.
Was thinking about Jackson and the fact he averaged 84 with only 33 ruck contests, top rucks are over 60 in average. If they plan to do an even split to help Darcy play out the year then he could be a shout but not sure he gets the ruck time and won’t have quite as good as midfield to tap to. Upside is massive if he’s solo rucking for stretches of the season
 
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Not sure on if the backup would be McStay anyway, IIRC Pies also picked up Billy Frampton who might be the one that plays if Cox say is injured?

I’m probably not looking for that 100-105 upside for DC to select him. Happy to get a 95 avg out of him as an R/F priced at 85.
There are some good reasons to suspect you could be correct, I personally just can’t see how his low Hitout rate can work with an even ruck share with Cox, I think even if it played out weirdly through the year and with variance, his points were coming from ruck time so I see ruck time as the key to his good scoring
 

Bomber18

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There are some good reasons to suspect you could be correct, I personally just can’t see how his low Hitout rate can work with an even ruck share with Cox, I think even if it played out weirdly through the year and with variance, his points were coming from ruck time so I see ruck time as the key to his good scoring
Doubt it’s an even split with Cox. Last year was roughly 60/40 either with Cox or Begg (except for two games of a 40/60 and 50/50 split where DC probably had some injury issues), and he was able to average 96.5 in that time.

C62EE33D-65B4-465F-925C-07C27EF5CBF0.jpeg
Has shown he can average 95+ with ~60% ruck time, and a further preseason training as a No.1 ruck (rather than ruck support) can’t hurt - that’s enough for me!
 
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Thinking of moving from Grunshall to Jackshall. Prior to rd 12 there would be an upgrade to whoever becomes the flavour of the month. Either Jackson fwd if the scoring justifies it (Fyfe to a ruck if he still has both knees and shoulders intact?) or a direct upgrade.

Grundy slow grind downward in scoring each season past few years and that was as sole ruck. Granted he was coming from a high ave. But if sharing with Gawn costs him 10% in scoring then based on last year he could drop to around 93. If Jackson can improve 10% in scoring he will be around 92.

Never been totally convinced by Grundy in the current Melb set up but kept him so I could draft a team with a reasonable priced R2 in place.
 
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Doubt it’s an even split with Cox. Last year was roughly 60/40 either with Cox or Begg (except for two games of a 40/60 and 50/50 split where DC probably had some injury issues), and he was able to average 96.5 in that time.

View attachment 52737
Has shown he can average 95+ with ~60% ruck time, and a further preseason training as a No.1 ruck (rather than ruck support) can’t hurt - that’s enough for me!
You make a good case, my worry is still what he averaged with the ruck time at the back end of the season. Not totally against the pick, you've shown that he has scored well with only 60% of the share.

I do think you give him a pass for the good performances coming late in his career because he's never been given the main ruck role and rucks can also peak late, but it's still a minor red flag.
 
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