Position 2023: Ruck Discussion

[Shannon]

Witts at training the other day :-





Looks very fit, maybe 5kgs lighter than last year I think.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Witts at training the other day :-

View attachment 52880

View attachment 52881

Looks very fit, maybe 5kgs lighter than last year I think.

Not sure how I feel about that tbh.

 

[AngryAnt]

At the stage of just picking English and reserving a trade for when the most likely will happen. Has the upside to hurt non owners.

 

[Manikato1]

At the stage of just picking English and reserving a trade for when the most likely will happen. Has the upside to hurt non owners.

And the downside to do the same. The VIX level is quite high.

 

[AngryAnt]

And the downside to do the same. The VIX level is quite high.

Of course, but I'd rather just pick a risky player with high upside from the start than trade to get him during the season and only then for him to break down. Every ruckman bar Marshall has inherent issues this season, might as well pick the one that might hurt non owners if he goes on a high scoring run.

 

[Shannon]

Not sure how I feel about that tbh.

In what way?

 

[Russty_]

Witts at training the other day :-

View attachment 52880

View attachment 52881

Looks very fit, maybe 5kgs lighter than last year I think.

Good news for those of us starting him

 

[Shannon]

Of course, but I'd rather just pick a risky player with high upside from the start than trade to get him during the season and only then for him to break down. Every ruckman bar Marshall has inherent issues this season, might as well pick the one that might hurt non owners if he goes on a high scoring run.

What are the issues with Witts? Overpriced I assume?

 

[AngryAnt]

What are the issues with Witts? Overpriced I assume?

Yeh the price is pretty steep for him, plus the age profile. What he did last season was quite an anomaly given his injury and age. I'd rather spend less on English who has more upside than someone who presents zero value, obviously knowing the inherent risks of going with this approach.

 

[NT.Thunder]

In what way?

Well I just thought his size helped him with his hit outs, being that bigger body ruckman. I just don't think he's a natural ball winner so being more mobile around the ground might be o***et with losing some size. I've got major anxiety looking for a ruckman this season.

 

[Manikato1]

Of course, but I'd rather just pick a risky player with high upside from the start than trade to get him during the season and only then for him to break down. Every ruckman bar Marshall has inherent issues this season, might as well pick the one that might hurt non owners if he goes on a high scoring run.

Agree entirely about the trade in issue. However nearly all of the top end rucks have the potential to go on a high scoring run. That is how they got to the top end. Right now English could have a flat run just as much as the next guy. If you choose a mid price spec pick instead of English then that could be much different in terms of points. The trade off is of course how you use the cash you get from the cheaper pick.

 

[AngryAnt]

Agree entirely about the trade in issue. However nearly all of the top end rucks have the potential to go on a high scoring run. That is how they got to the top end. Right now English could have a flat run just as much as the next guy. If you choose a mid price spec pick instead of English then that could be much different in terms of points. The trade off is of course how you use the cash you get from the cheaper pick.

Grundy now with the Dees probably makes Gawn irrelevant now, vice versa with Grundy (despite his price), who knows how they structure up with both of them? It could even be a week by week proposition as to who gets the majority share of ruck time.

Witts burned out pretty badly in the second half of last season, his first half was beyond good admittedly. How does Jackson affect Darcy? Probably not as impactful as Grundy to Gawn but it's a question mark, also has durability issues (albeit not as pronounced as English). The only other one that is over 100 average is O'Brien, can throw in a few stinkers and 105 ppg is probably his ceiling. Where does his improvement come from?

Nic Nat, again durability issues, age and TOG concerns, could even be sub out candidate. Blicavs? Probably too versatile for his own good to be consistent as a scorer. Cameron has Cox to contend with and don't think he has the ceiling of the upper end of rucks. If we got confirmation that it was just McStay giving him a chop out then he'd be in consideration. Who else is there? Meek and Lycett? Too many question marks regarding what these teams do with their ruck setups. Draper? Can't take someone who scored 6 in a whole game into consideration. Has to improve in every category to become an acceptable scorer at his price. It's basically Marshall as a lock and then a whole heap of players with their own issues, so I'm not sure who exactly the midpricer ruckman is that can partner Marshall?

 

[Feerits Elf]

It's basically Marshall as a lock and then a whole heap of players with their own issues, so I'm not sure who exactly the midpricer ruckman is that can partner Marshall?

Realistically it's only Grundy (who I don't even categorise as a midpricer) and Cameron.

 

[mwross91]

Those that are running with English currently in R1 - are you planning ahead and having a Cameron/ Jackson up forward? Or just risking it and hoping that he gets through until we likely get some better R/F DPP in the form of Gawn etc?

 

[mike89]

At the stage of just picking English and reserving a trade for when the most likely will happen. Has the upside to hurt non owners.

Starting to move in this direction myself. Same principle of paying for information compared to taking a midpricer (I've had Lycett sitting there for a few weeks), but hopefully with better scores in the interim.

 

[Shannon]

Looking at English's first 6 weeks :-

Melbourne - Gawn & Grundy
St Kilda - Marshall. Scores of 51 last year & 68 the previous year as his last 2 v the saints
Bris - McInerney
Rich - Nankervis
Port - Lycett
Freo - Darcy and Jackson

So he plays against the 2 best ruck combos in the league in the first 6 weeks & v a team that he has scored poorly last 2 times he has played him. No Stef Martin helps for his scoring ability but it isn't an easy draw to start with for him.

 

[Juzzo]

He's back! R1 big fella.

 

[Rowsus]

Looking at English's first 6 weeks :-

Melbourne - Gawn & Grundy
St Kilda - Marshall. Scores of 51 last year & 68 the previous year as his last 2 v the saints
Bris - McInerney
Rich - Nankervis
Port - Lycett
Freo - Darcy and Jackson

So he plays against the 2 best ruck combos in the league in the first 6 weeks & v a team that he has scored poorly last 2 times he has played him. No Stef Martin helps for his scoring ability but it isn't an easy draw to start with for him.

Not that I'm Gee'ing up for him, but just to put English's scores against St Kilda into context.
2020 Rnd 2 - 68 - English's 31st AFL Game - Rucked against Marshall 79% TOG and Ryder 82% TOG - English still learning, only 10 HO's
2021 - DNP St Kilda
2022 Rnd 18 - 51 - English's 79th AFL Game - Rucked against both Ryder and Marshall again. - English 26 HO's, but only 8 Disp, 10 below season average. Had 5 Clangers (=season high), 2 above season average. 3 Marks, 2 below season average. 1 of his 5 Goalless games for the season.

 

[Manikato1]

Grundy now with the Dees probably makes Gawn irrelevant now, vice versa with Grundy (despite his price), who knows how they structure up with both of them? It could even be a week by week proposition as to who gets the majority share of ruck time.

Witts burned out pretty badly in the second half of last season, his first half was beyond good admittedly. How does Jackson affect Darcy? Probably not as impactful as Grundy to Gawn but it's a question mark, also has durability issues (albeit not as pronounced as English). The only other one that is over 100 average is O'Brien, can throw in a few stinkers and 105 ppg is probably his ceiling. Where does his improvement come from?

Nic Nat, again durability issues, age and TOG concerns, could even be sub out candidate. Blicavs? Probably too versatile for his own good to be consistent as a scorer. Cameron has Cox to contend with and don't think he has the ceiling of the upper end of rucks. If we got confirmation that it was just McStay giving him a chop out then he'd be in consideration. Who else is there? Meek and Lycett? Too many question marks regarding what these teams do with their ruck setups. Draper? Can't take someone who scored 6 in a whole game into consideration. Has to improve in every category to become an acceptable scorer at his price. It's basically Marshall as a lock and then a whole heap of players with their own issues, so I'm not sure who exactly the midpricer ruckman is that can partner Marshall?

You have missed the point I was trying to make, which is probably my fault for not explaining it better. The issue for mine was that you indicated that non owners of English could be hurt by him having a run of high scores. Right now on what we know you could have English/Marshall and I could have Darcy/Marshall and both could go on high runs before getting injured. Or neither. Or Darcy fires and English doesn't. I was not questioning if he is a good pick over any one else or the durability issues. Just the statement he could go on a run of high scores and hurt non owners.

 

[froffershanners]

The ruck line is completely doing my head in. If Campbell is selected alongside Marshall in round 1 then it’s going to ruin everything.

Anyone heard anything about Preuss’ off-season? I’m really scraping the barrel here but just hoping he is another one to cross off the list.

Although if he has had no interruptions and Kingsley goes with the one ruck and it is Preuss then there are worse options yeah?

Did average 100+ excluding the injury game in his first proper go at being the main ruckman in a side. Obviously comes with injury risk but who doesn’t on this line.