Strategy 2023: Rookies Discussion

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You dont have to have the best start if you complete your team faster because youve got better cash gen, you're going to fly past the teams that start well if you get that mix right.
I’ve never experienced that, especially these days with so many trades and the ability to boost. Teams get completed quickly and become very similar and it’s a tough slog to come from a long way back. Like I said it’s a balance, you can find yourself a long way back early and like I said, for me anyway it’s always been a tough slog.
 

Bomber18

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Any thoughts on who the best “floating donut to play” might be? I was thinking maybe C Wagner?

I am wondering whether to put Esava at R3 and run a D/M donut instead (which can open up rookie loops in the Def and Mid slots as well)
 
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Thought Hickey was their number one ruck. Isn't he due to come back around round 2?
Oh, i thought Hickey was out for a while. Also thought by the time Hickey was due back Ladhams would have locked the numbers one spot away. Also Hickey is 32.
 
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It’s a balance IMO, cash gen doesn’t mean much if you’re so far back in the pack 6 rounds in. You’re not talking ass difference with regards to cash gen, maybe one or two players between the top 5k teams. You need to utilise the points on field whilst still having cash gen Early.
It's actually kind of a redundant scenario.

The best scoring will also generate the most cash so really you're picking the same thing, yes the cheaper guys don't need to score as much to generate cash but realistically if you're making more cash, you've got better scorers and if they're premium priced they're only scoring even more than the cheaper guys they're outcashing.

I do agree that now with so many extra trades the final teams are far more ****genous and that the start is far more important than it used to be, you're just not going to come swooping in unless there is a year with catastrophic injuries that punish teams who traded too hard.
 
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Oh, i thought Hickey was out for a while. Also thought by the time Hickey was due back Ladhams would have locked the numbers one spot away. Also Hickey is 32.
I understand it is not clear when Hickey will be back. However his powers of recovery are amazing (doubt 32 has anything to do with it one way or the other) having previously come back in weeks for injuries that usually have you out for months. So until we know otherwise Rd 2 is just as likely as any round. Also while Ladhams has had a couple of good games he has never ave better than 85 (the year he filled in for an injured Lycett?), is known for brain fades that have seen him suspended several times for basically just doing dumb things and has a bad knee that requires management. I would consider a high risk proposition.
 
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Holland did play well. Carlton two wings to start should be Acres and O‘Brien. Holland may come in if we play three wings one on bench but even then Walsh comes back and may push Cerra to a wing. Holland very shaky JS
Think Holland may have overtaken LOB in the last game, seemed Holland a lot more on the wing with LOB a bit HF. Holland played much better too. Will be an interesting selection.
 
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So have gone through my annual process of rating the rookies, tweaked it a bit this year but same basic system...

Essentially I give my personal projection, this is generally on the "things go right" end of things, which I then compare to their starting price, generally anything above 30 is very good, anything above 20 is pretty decent option, especially if they show some kind of spike scoring ability.

Alongside this I table their job security and their scoring potential, the potential is more their ceiling than expected score, so guys I think can produce in the 70+ range from their starting price would get a 10 here, those I think aren't very likely to go big rank lower. Job security is basically a 5 out of 10 indicates they're a chance to play, 10 is for injury is their only obstacle, most will be 3 or better here because I've already filtered those who aren't at all likely, it's also somewhat forward looking, McVee for example would be a 7.5 for round one but is a 2 because I doubt he plays when Salem is back.

By position (DPP are in DEF/FWD in that order), will do my top 10 for each. With a brief explanation.

I've set the rookie cutoff at 280k, this is much higher than most will use but there were several very important guys that I look at purely as cash generators that I wanted to fit in.

DEF
1. Constable - Has my highest variance between projected and starting and highest scoring potential given role and propensity to seek the pill. Long term JS is his issue but has a few weeks most likely to cement a best 22 spot and do his job for us.
2. C. McKenna - Proven scoring history bumps his projection certainty and has solid job security and scoring potential.
3. Li. Jones - I have a couple with higher projection gaps but he's got the 10 for JS and has a very high ceiling for price spikes.
4. Ginbey - JS is probably more about the vest right now, he looks the goods but scoring projection unsighted is always more unreliable.
5. Bowes - I think his JS will be good if he's fit for round one, elite scoring potential especially for spike scores separates him but will likely be relying on it.
6. Crozier - Assuming he's fit, dislocated finger normally minor but can be severe also, proven scoring potential again a big helper.
7. Goater - Scoring potential is hard to rate, job security is among the better here.
8. Cole - Job security again the strength as well as some proven scoring to bank on.
9. Chesser - I think he'll play early but probably cop his share of vests, is going to take a while to make cash most likely
10. Cowan/Cincotta - Only one looks likely, whoever loses will be breathing down the neck but possession and laws. They're cheaper than the next two, so ahead but I think all 4 are similar prospects.
11. Wilmot/Fahey - They tied for mine, if they're playing round one I think they're both pretty equal prospects.

Others included Darcy, La. Jones, Perez, Parnell, Stocker and McKenzie (scoring gap issues) and then the McVee, Michalanney, Weddle, Young and Bergman group with job security issues. Coffield is the wild card.

MID
1. Ashcroft - I think some of the others have higher projection gaps but he's got JS and a big ceiling.
2. Mackenzie - Hard to project but such a talentless midfield and he was brilliant, showing serious scoring ability.
3. Callaghan - Basically just needs so many more points at his price but JS and scoring potential both very high.
4. Phillips - Job security strong again, scoring potential is good in his role, also cheaper.
5. Baker - Job security falls off rapidly in this group, he's cheaper than most of the group and has good scoring potential. JS his issue but should get a shot after his game.
6. O'Halloran - Role was great, no one obviously missing to change it, there's always a bolter with new coach, this is the point where a lot of the DPP guys are better, imo.
7. Duursma - Most wouldn't be looking here I'm sure, but he's averaged 74 multiple times and with Amon gone there's a spot to be had. (I didn't see his latest game but numbers are even better than I projected). It's his spot to lose which is ahead of the rest where they need to get a spot.
8. Hollands - He shoots up a bit here if he wins the job as he should score well in it but will be an all or nothing choice because he either kills it or is out of the side.
9. Culley - Has to win a spot, has to score amazing, not for mine after his preseason, durability an early question.
10. C. Stephens - The fact he's even here says it all about this group. Same as Mackenzie basically, any team that's playing Worpel as a main midfielder has multiple openings for a guy like him to slot into and he'll score well. Don't pick him :LOL:

Bytel the best of the rest but I don't see him playing with a decent role, they had multiple guys out and it still took an injury. Hustwaite, Johnson, Roberts, Wardlaw, Green, Tunstill and Clark I can't see playing, the last two the most likely but roles will be temporary.

FWD
Honestly, there's so many options here I'm going to list my top 10 and then I'm just naming everyone else I considered as I think they're all roughly equal and it's basically a decision between JS, scoring potential and price for who you prefer, issues in order in the (). Honestly from 4 onward I think they're all much of a muchness, which should make it chaotic and fun.

1. McLean - He's scored well in every role he's played, his JS is better than most and he's cheaper than basically everyone who beats him on either criteria.
2. Sheezel - He's hard because he's got multiple roles and they're very different, if they go with the "get him near the ball" approach he's probably first. I think he plays as many games as possible and they will largely get him near the ball.
3. Allen - Job security is important, he has the best of anyone. More of a spike score pick than a reliable push.
4. Flanders - His job security looks sound, his role is questionable but he scored well in his likely role, difficult though.
5. Greene - Job security should be good, can play but the role is pretty terrible in a bad side. Like Allen, spike score chasing.
6. Ratugolea - JS is an issue, scoring could be also, his R/F adds a lot of value though, imo, as he can save trades for injury/suspension in the rucks.
7. King - JS is just better than anyone else and at this point you're chasing spike scorers, Suns a much better side than when he last played and he has a lot more help up forward.
8. Phillipou - Not too different to Sheezel only in a team that will at least be trying to win early on and will select and play as such. They lack class though so should get chances and can play.
9. Ugle-Hagan - I'm actually very bullish on him, will get the 3rd best defender, even 4th at times, dominant midfielder and should be free to roam where he can use his size as an outlet target. He's a spike score play though still but think he can push towards 70 as an average.
10. Windhager - Hard to judge him, scoring is the big question, especially if tagging but JS looks really good and his role has potential above others.

Davey (JS/scoring), Humphrey (JS), Sturt (JS), Berry (scoring/JS), Stone (JS/scoring), Chandler (JS/scoring), A. Jones (JS/scoring), Bruce (JS), Menzie (JS/scoring), Caminiti (scoring/JS), Clarke (price/JS), Walla (Fitness/scoring/price), Henry (price/scoring/JS), Davies (price/scoring/JS), Fantasia (price), Owens (price/scoring), Pedlar (price/scoring) and Comben (scoring)
 
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It's actually kind of a redundant scenario.

The best scoring will also generate the most cash so really you're picking the same thing, yes the cheaper guys don't need to score as much to generate cash but realistically if you're making more cash, you've got better scorers and if they're premium priced they're only scoring even more than the cheaper guys they're outcashing.

I do agree that now with so many extra trades the final teams are far more ****genous and that the start is far more important than it used to be, you're just not going to come swooping in unless there is a year with catastrophic injuries that punish teams who traded too hard.
It’s not - because he was talking about cash generation on the bench so the rookie score isn’t contributing to the weekly score
 
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So have gone through my annual process of rating the rookies, tweaked it a bit this year but same basic system...

Essentially I give my personal projection, this is generally on the "things go right" end of things, which I then compare to their starting price, generally anything above 30 is very good, anything above 20 is pretty decent option, especially if they show some kind of spike scoring ability.

Alongside this I table their job security and their scoring potential, the potential is more their ceiling than expected score, so guys I think can produce in the 70+ range from their starting price would get a 10 here, those I think aren't very likely to go big rank lower. Job security is basically a 5 out of 10 indicates they're a chance to play, 10 is for injury is their only obstacle, most will be 3 or better here because I've already filtered those who aren't at all likely, it's also somewhat forward looking, McVee for example would be a 7.5 for round one but is a 2 because I doubt he plays when Salem is back.

By position (DPP are in DEF/FWD in that order), will do my top 10 for each. With a brief explanation.

I've set the rookie cutoff at 280k, this is much higher than most will use but there were several very important guys that I look at purely as cash generators that I wanted to fit in.

DEF
1. Constable - Has my highest variance between projected and starting and highest scoring potential given role and propensity to seek the pill. Long term JS is his issue but has a few weeks most likely to cement a best 22 spot and do his job for us.
2. C. McKenna - Proven scoring history bumps his projection certainty and has solid job security and scoring potential.
3. Li. Jones - I have a couple with higher projection gaps but he's got the 10 for JS and has a very high ceiling for price spikes.
4. Ginbey - JS is probably more about the vest right now, he looks the goods but scoring projection unsighted is always more unreliable.
5. Bowes - I think his JS will be good if he's fit for round one, elite scoring potential especially for spike scores separates him but will likely be relying on it.
6. Crozier - Assuming he's fit, dislocated finger normally minor but can be severe also, proven scoring potential again a big helper.
7. Goater - Scoring potential is hard to rate, job security is among the better here.
8. Cole - Job security again the strength as well as some proven scoring to bank on.
9. Chesser - I think he'll play early but probably cop his share of vests, is going to take a while to make cash most likely
10. Cowan/Cincotta - Only one looks likely, whoever loses will be breathing down the neck but possession and laws. They're cheaper than the next two, so ahead but I think all 4 are similar prospects.
11. Wilmot/Fahey - They tied for mine, if they're playing round one I think they're both pretty equal prospects.

Others included Darcy, La. Jones, Perez, Parnell, Stocker and McKenzie (scoring gap issues) and then the McVee, Michalanney, Weddle, Young and Bergman group with job security issues. Coffield is the wild card.

MID
1. Ashcroft - I think some of the others have higher projection gaps but he's got JS and a big ceiling.
2. Mackenzie - Hard to project but such a talentless midfield and he was brilliant, showing serious scoring ability.
3. Callaghan - Basically just needs so many more points at his price but JS and scoring potential both very high.
4. Phillips - Job security strong again, scoring potential is good in his role, also cheaper.
5. Baker - Job security falls off rapidly in this group, he's cheaper than most of the group and has good scoring potential. JS his issue but should get a shot after his game.
6. O'Halloran - Role was great, no one obviously missing to change it, there's always a bolter with new coach, this is the point where a lot of the DPP guys are better, imo.
7. Duursma - Most wouldn't be looking here I'm sure, but he's averaged 74 multiple times and with Amon gone there's a spot to be had. (I didn't see his latest game but numbers are even better than I projected). It's his spot to lose which is ahead of the rest where they need to get a spot.
8. Hollands - He shoots up a bit here if he wins the job as he should score well in it but will be an all or nothing choice because he either kills it or is out of the side.
9. Culley - Has to win a spot, has to score amazing, not for mine after his preseason, durability an early question.
10. C. Stephens - The fact he's even here says it all about this group. Same as Mackenzie basically, any team that's playing Worpel as a main midfielder has multiple openings for a guy like him to slot into and he'll score well. Don't pick him :LOL:

Bytel the best of the rest but I don't see him playing with a decent role, they had multiple guys out and it still took an injury. Hustwaite, Johnson, Roberts, Wardlaw, Green, Tunstill and Clark I can't see playing, the last two the most likely but roles will be temporary.

FWD
Honestly, there's so many options here I'm going to list my top 10 and then I'm just naming everyone else I considered as I think they're all roughly equal and it's basically a decision between JS, scoring potential and price for who you prefer, issues in order in the (). Honestly from 4 onward I think they're all much of a muchness, which should make it chaotic and fun.

1. McLean - He's scored well in every role he's played, his JS is better than most and he's cheaper than basically everyone who beats him on either criteria.
2. Sheezel - He's hard because he's got multiple roles and they're very different, if they go with the "get him near the ball" approach he's probably first. I think he plays as many games as possible and they will largely get him near the ball.
3. Allen - Job security is important, he has the best of anyone. More of a spike score pick than a reliable push.
4. Flanders - His job security looks sound, his role is questionable but he scored well in his likely role, difficult though.
5. Greene - Job security should be good, can play but the role is pretty terrible in a bad side. Like Allen, spike score chasing.
6. Ratugolea - JS is an issue, scoring could be also, his R/F adds a lot of value though, imo, as he can save trades for injury/suspension in the rucks.
7. King - JS is just better than anyone else and at this point you're chasing spike scorers, Suns a much better side than when he last played and he has a lot more help up forward.
8. Phillipou - Not too different to Sheezel only in a team that will at least be trying to win early on and will select and play as such. They lack class though so should get chances and can play.
9. Ugle-Hagan - I'm actually very bullish on him, will get the 3rd best defender, even 4th at times, dominant midfielder and should be free to roam where he can use his size as an outlet target. He's a spike score play though still but think he can push towards 70 as an average.
10. Windhager - Hard to judge him, scoring is the big question, especially if tagging but JS looks really good and his role has potential above others.

Davey (JS/scoring), Humphrey (JS), Sturt (JS), Berry (scoring/JS), Stone (JS/scoring), Chandler (JS/scoring), A. Jones (JS/scoring), Bruce (JS), Menzie (JS/scoring), Caminiti (scoring/JS), Clarke (price/JS), Walla (Fitness/scoring/price), Henry (price/scoring/JS), Davies (price/scoring/JS), Fantasia (price), Owens (price/scoring), Pedlar (price/scoring) and Comben (scoring)
Outstanding work mate 👏👍
 
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It’s a balance IMO, cash gen doesn’t mean much if you’re so far back in the pack 6 rounds in. You’re not talking that much difference with regards to cash gen, maybe one or two players between the top 5k teams. You need to utilise the points on field whilst still having cash gen Early.
Agreed @NT.Thunder points on field as equally important as cash gen, both required….

By round 4-5 if your too far behind its game over and difficult to pull it back, especially now teams are upgrading faster than ever before…
 
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So have gone through my annual process of rating the rookies, tweaked it a bit this year but same basic system...

Essentially I give my personal projection, this is generally on the "things go right" end of things, which I then compare to their starting price, generally anything above 30 is very good, anything above 20 is pretty decent option, especially if they show some kind of spike scoring ability.

Alongside this I table their job security and their scoring potential, the potential is more their ceiling than expected score, so guys I think can produce in the 70+ range from their starting price would get a 10 here, those I think aren't very likely to go big rank lower. Job security is basically a 5 out of 10 indicates they're a chance to play, 10 is for injury is their only obstacle, most will be 3 or better here because I've already filtered those who aren't at all likely, it's also somewhat forward looking, McVee for example would be a 7.5 for round one but is a 2 because I doubt he plays when Salem is back.

By position (DPP are in DEF/FWD in that order), will do my top 10 for each. With a brief explanation.

I've set the rookie cutoff at 280k, this is much higher than most will use but there were several very important guys that I look at purely as cash generators that I wanted to fit in.

DEF
1. Constable - Has my highest variance between projected and starting and highest scoring potential given role and propensity to seek the pill. Long term JS is his issue but has a few weeks most likely to cement a best 22 spot and do his job for us.
2. C. McKenna - Proven scoring history bumps his projection certainty and has solid job security and scoring potential.
3. Li. Jones - I have a couple with higher projection gaps but he's got the 10 for JS and has a very high ceiling for price spikes.
4. Ginbey - JS is probably more about the vest right now, he looks the goods but scoring projection unsighted is always more unreliable.
5. Bowes - I think his JS will be good if he's fit for round one, elite scoring potential especially for spike scores separates him but will likely be relying on it.
6. Crozier - Assuming he's fit, dislocated finger normally minor but can be severe also, proven scoring potential again a big helper.
7. Goater - Scoring potential is hard to rate, job security is among the better here.
8. Cole - Job security again the strength as well as some proven scoring to bank on.
9. Chesser - I think he'll play early but probably cop his share of vests, is going to take a while to make cash most likely
10. Cowan/Cincotta - Only one looks likely, whoever loses will be breathing down the neck but possession and laws. They're cheaper than the next two, so ahead but I think all 4 are similar prospects.
11. Wilmot/Fahey - They tied for mine, if they're playing round one I think they're both pretty equal prospects.

Others included Darcy, La. Jones, Perez, Parnell, Stocker and McKenzie (scoring gap issues) and then the McVee, Michalanney, Weddle, Young and Bergman group with job security issues. Coffield is the wild card.

MID
1. Ashcroft - I think some of the others have higher projection gaps but he's got JS and a big ceiling.
2. Mackenzie - Hard to project but such a talentless midfield and he was brilliant, showing serious scoring ability.
3. Callaghan - Basically just needs so many more points at his price but JS and scoring potential both very high.
4. Phillips - Job security strong again, scoring potential is good in his role, also cheaper.
5. Baker - Job security falls off rapidly in this group, he's cheaper than most of the group and has good scoring potential. JS his issue but should get a shot after his game.
6. O'Halloran - Role was great, no one obviously missing to change it, there's always a bolter with new coach, this is the point where a lot of the DPP guys are better, imo.
7. Duursma - Most wouldn't be looking here I'm sure, but he's averaged 74 multiple times and with Amon gone there's a spot to be had. (I didn't see his latest game but numbers are even better than I projected). It's his spot to lose which is ahead of the rest where they need to get a spot.
8. Hollands - He shoots up a bit here if he wins the job as he should score well in it but will be an all or nothing choice because he either kills it or is out of the side.
9. Culley - Has to win a spot, has to score amazing, not for mine after his preseason, durability an early question.
10. C. Stephens - The fact he's even here says it all about this group. Same as Mackenzie basically, any team that's playing Worpel as a main midfielder has multiple openings for a guy like him to slot into and he'll score well. Don't pick him :LOL:

Bytel the best of the rest but I don't see him playing with a decent role, they had multiple guys out and it still took an injury. Hustwaite, Johnson, Roberts, Wardlaw, Green, Tunstill and Clark I can't see playing, the last two the most likely but roles will be temporary.

FWD
Honestly, there's so many options here I'm going to list my top 10 and then I'm just naming everyone else I considered as I think they're all roughly equal and it's basically a decision between JS, scoring potential and price for who you prefer, issues in order in the (). Honestly from 4 onward I think they're all much of a muchness, which should make it chaotic and fun.

1. McLean - He's scored well in every role he's played, his JS is better than most and he's cheaper than basically everyone who beats him on either criteria.
2. Sheezel - He's hard because he's got multiple roles and they're very different, if they go with the "get him near the ball" approach he's probably first. I think he plays as many games as possible and they will largely get him near the ball.
3. Allen - Job security is important, he has the best of anyone. More of a spike score pick than a reliable push.
4. Flanders - His job security looks sound, his role is questionable but he scored well in his likely role, difficult though.
5. Greene - Job security should be good, can play but the role is pretty terrible in a bad side. Like Allen, spike score chasing.
6. Ratugolea - JS is an issue, scoring could be also, his R/F adds a lot of value though, imo, as he can save trades for injury/suspension in the rucks.
7. King - JS is just better than anyone else and at this point you're chasing spike scorers, Suns a much better side than when he last played and he has a lot more help up forward.
8. Phillipou - Not too different to Sheezel only in a team that will at least be trying to win early on and will select and play as such. They lack class though so should get chances and can play.
9. Ugle-Hagan - I'm actually very bullish on him, will get the 3rd best defender, even 4th at times, dominant midfielder and should be free to roam where he can use his size as an outlet target. He's a spike score play though still but think he can push towards 70 as an average.
10. Windhager - Hard to judge him, scoring is the big question, especially if tagging but JS looks really good and his role has potential above others.

Davey (JS/scoring), Humphrey (JS), Sturt (JS), Berry (scoring/JS), Stone (JS/scoring), Chandler (JS/scoring), A. Jones (JS/scoring), Bruce (JS), Menzie (JS/scoring), Caminiti (scoring/JS), Clarke (price/JS), Walla (Fitness/scoring/price), Henry (price/scoring/JS), Davies (price/scoring/JS), Fantasia (price), Owens (price/scoring), Pedlar (price/scoring) and Comben (scoring)
Cracking work as always, entertainment plus incredible insights. Interesting to see rankings too.

Very keen to have a D2 in my team which means a little sacrificing on 1-2 pricey rookies.

Don’t have Mclean due to two weeks of deep forward role it seems and whilst Phillipou has been in my side most preseason, feels I need to cut him to Essendon’s Davey to afford Doc (for Mckenna) in back line and Esava R3.

Partly driven by adding Flanders and Sheezel who I think either have better roles (may not just be HFF). Phillipou JS good, think scoring vs price and bit short of making my team now. Chesser in side too, agree, may be slow burn yet has good upside.

Have spent up on rookies it feels, although 6 rookies on bench at 123k plus Constable on field.

Cash gen is a priority but cannot run too many roomies in defence if they are scoring on field at 40-60 risk.
 
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Yep. The main point of the pricier rookies is to eliminate the 20s and 40s you get on field sometimes from the 117k - 123k types. That benefit comes at a cost at the top end though. Maybe you only get 1 of those 130ppg players and have to run a 115 instead

Si the cost of having a premium rookie on your bench: does it justify that mid downgrade? Maybe. A 20 will kill cash gen for 3 weeks in that spot - worse if it's followed by time in the 2s "to work on some things". A 2nd 20 and it's pretty well lights out for that rookie as they will be out of the 22 before they get a chance to get their cash moving again. The states our benches have sometimes been in by round 5 or 6 have been horrific. And if you're chasing rucks or chasing rookies, trade churn will chop you up

It's such a situational thing that it defies a blanket approach like "GnR is better than MPM".
 
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