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Montyjnr

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#9,641
whiteTiga2k said:
Not if your bench consists of Chesser, Cowan and Constable as well as Madden. No cash gen at all. I'm trading Roberts this week and trying to forget how I wasted 2 trades
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I also have Chesser, Cowan, Constable, Madden and I’m not considering trading Roberts at all.

It’s a sideways trade that does nothing for your team while others are downgrading a rookie to release cash or bringing an extra premium into their team with that same trade.

Unless you are looking at a donut, trading Roberts now puts you behind the pack - I’d cut Cowan ahead of him.
 
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dlanod

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Montyjnr said:
Unless you are looking at a donut, trading Roberts now puts you behind the pack - I’d cut Cowan ahead of him.
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I'm seconding this and putting my money where my mouth is.

Roberts is a bit of a nothing trade, unless there's a must have rookie to bring in - which I really don't think there is this week. Even Mitchell is more above average than must have.
 
Wheedus

Wheedus

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#9,643
Montyjnr said:
I also have Chesser, Cowan, Constable, Madden and I’m not considering trading Roberts at all.

It’s a sideways trade that does nothing for your team while others are downgrading a rookie to release cash or bringing an extra premium into their team with that same trade.

Unless you are looking at a donut, trading Roberts now puts you behind the pack - I’d cut Cowan ahead of him.
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You don't want to be accumulating donuts this side of the byes. You may be able to cover them now but not through the byes. Obviously there is some scope to hold fire for the right rookie leading into Rd 12 but if you're already carrying Madden, Chesser, Constable with no guarantee of any of them playing come the bye rounds, you may be left scrambling. Essentially you're kicking the problem down the round. Every year I use the bye rounds to improve my side and you cant do that if you doing a whole bunch of sideways trades just to make 18 on the field.
 
mike89

mike89

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Wheedus said:
You don't want to be accumulating donuts this side of the byes. You may be able to cover them now but not through the byes. Obviously there is some scope to hold fire for the right rookie leading into Rd 12 but if you're already carrying Madden, Chesser, Constable with no guarantee of any of them playing come the bye rounds, you may be left scrambling. Essentially you're kicking the problem down the round. Every year I use the bye rounds to improve my side and you cant do that if you doing a whole bunch of sideways trades just to make 18 on the field.
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Think the way I'm going to handle it is save shifting those kind of guys out for a double down round. Right now that's looking like next week for me. Depends how ripe the playing ones are for picking of course but - famous last words - hopefully I can get one more round out of the ones still playing.
 
Chumpion

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#9,645
Wheedus said:
You don't want to be accumulating donuts this side of the byes. You may be able to cover them now but not through the byes. Obviously there is some scope to hold fire for the right rookie leading into Rd 12 but if you're already carrying Madden, Chesser, Constable with no guarantee of any of them playing come the bye rounds, you may be left scrambling. Essentially you're kicking the problem down the round. Every year I use the bye rounds to improve my side and you cant do that if you doing a whole bunch of sideways trades just to make 18 on the field.
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I tihnk the byes are a lot different this year and far easier to manage - having that extra week where only 2 teams miss but it's best 18 and you can still use 3 (4 with a boost) trades mean we have a much easier time repositioning ourselves for the last 2 byes. In previous years you were limited in how many 1st bye players you could get in, where as this year you can theoretically bring in 6-8 while still fielding a super competitive team in the first 2 byes.
Totally agree in previous years, but I think this year you can get by carrying slightly more dead wood that normal.
 
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Montyjnr

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#9,652
Wheedus said:
You don't want to be accumulating donuts this side of the byes. You may be able to cover them now but not through the byes. Obviously there is some scope to hold fire for the right rookie leading into Rd 12 but if you're already carrying Madden, Chesser, Constable with no guarantee of any of them playing come the bye rounds, you may be left scrambling. Essentially you're kicking the problem down the round. Every year I use the bye rounds to improve my side and you cant do that if you doing a whole bunch of sideways trades just to make 18 on the field.
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It literally is a problem you should be kicking down the road though.

The earlier you can get a premium in, the more weeks you have their premium scoring in your team.

For instance, Team A could bring in Day, Coniglio & Sicily over the next 2 weeks with 6 trades doing 3 down/3 up. Team B can only bring in Day & Coniglio over the next 2 weeks because they did 2 down/2 up & a Roberts > Sturt sideways trade that generated no money and held them back from bringing in a 3rd premium. So Team A has an extra premium over Team B.

Sure, Team B just brings in another premium the following week - but Team A gets another premium too. So Team A is still ahead and Team B loses points to Team A again all because Team B fell behind sideways trading a rookie with no value during upgrade season when they should have made a proper downgrade instead.
 
Wheedus

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Montyjnr said:
It literally is a problem you should be kicking down the road though.

The earlier you can get a premium in, the more weeks you have their premium scoring in your team.

For instance, Team A could bring in Day, Coniglio & Sicily over the next 2 weeks with 6 trades doing 3 down/3 up. Team B can only bring in Day & Coniglio over the next 2 weeks because they did 2 down/2 up & a Roberts > Sturt sideways trade that generated no money and held them back from bringing in a 3rd premium. So Team A has an extra premium over Team B.

Sure, Team B just brings in another premium the following week - but Team A gets another premium too. So Team A is still ahead and Team B loses points to Team A again all because Team B fell behind sideways trading a rookie with no value during upgrade season when they should have made a proper downgrade instead.
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I get the argument but it's based on a lot of assumptions. Chiefly, it doesn't account for the possible adverse impact during the bye rounds. Team B brings in a viable rookie for Roberts who then generates additional cash to make further upgrades. 30 points per round upside for the next 3-4 rounds is pretty quickly eaten away when you cop a donut or are relying on a 40 for your 18th player in any of the bye rounds. So you kick one problem down the road and you end up with two.

For what it's worth, I won't be trading Roberts this round (I have other issues :LOL:) but I'll definitely be offloading him as soon as a viable and safe option presents itself.

This time last year I was ranked 10,383. Going into the byes, I'd made it to 7,406 and by the end of the bye rounds I was 1,579. A lot of ground can be made up over those rounds with careful planning and key part of that is ensuring team balance and minimising donuts. This year certainly makes things easier over rounds 12 and 13 but you've stil gotta deal with 14 and 15.
 
PC

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#9,654
Montyjnr said:
It literally is a problem you should be kicking down the road though.

The earlier you can get a premium in, the more weeks you have their premium scoring in your team.

For instance, Team A could bring in Day, Coniglio & Sicily over the next 2 weeks with 6 trades doing 3 down/3 up. Team B can only bring in Day & Coniglio over the next 2 weeks because they did 2 down/2 up & a Roberts > Sturt sideways trade that generated no money and held them back from bringing in a 3rd premium. So Team A has an extra premium over Team B.

Sure, Team B just brings in another premium the following week - but Team A gets another premium too. So Team A is still ahead and Team B loses points to Team A again all because Team B fell behind sideways trading a rookie with no value during upgrade season when they should have made a proper downgrade instead.
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Sure, but you got no coin gen happening from Roberts so isn't it better to get rid of him asap? (diminishing returns on trading him as time goes on)
 
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Montyjnr

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Wheedus said:
I get the argument but it's based on a lot of assumptions. Chiefly, it doesn't account for the possible adverse impact during the bye rounds. Team B brings in a viable rookie for Roberts who then generates additional cash to make further upgrades. 30 points per round upside for the next 3-4 rounds is pretty quickly eaten away when you cop a donut or are relying on a 40 for your 18th player in any of the bye rounds. So you kick one problem down the road and you end up with two.

For what it's worth, I won't be trading Roberts this round (I have other issues :LOL:) but I'll definitely be offloading him as soon as a viable and safe option presents itself.

This time last year I was ranked 10,383. Going into the byes, I'd made it to 7,406 and by the end of the bye rounds I was 1,579. A lot of ground can be made up over those rounds with careful planning and key part of that is ensuring team balance and minimising donuts. This year certainly makes things easier over rounds 12 and 13 but you've stil gotta deal with 14 and 15.
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The idea is that Team A would still get the viable rookie though - they just get them as a downgrade for a maxed out McKenna instead of a sideways for Roberts.

We generally find that most teams are almost completed by the time the byes start, so it can be hard to catch the leaders at that point even with a great bye run if you have been leaking points Round 6 - Round 11.

I've even found myself not trading in the first bye week in recent years (to avoid bringing someone in that has the bye ahead of them) - that seems like the perfect week to clean up the deadwood in my eyes.

PC said:
Sure, but you got no coin gen happening from Roberts so isn't it better to get rid of him asap? (diminishing returns on trading him as time goes on)
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You don't get coin gen from McKenna either if he keeps scoring 50-60, so you may as well prioritise the move that releases cash to help the rest of your team.
 
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dlanod

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#9,659
Wheedus said:
I get the argument but it's based on a lot of assumptions. Chiefly, it doesn't account for the possible adverse impact during the bye rounds. Team B brings in a viable rookie for Roberts who then generates additional cash to make further upgrades. 30 points per round upside for the next 3-4 rounds is pretty quickly eaten away when you cop a donut or are relying on a 40 for your 18th player in any of the bye rounds. So you kick one problem down the road and you end up with two.

For what it's worth, I won't be trading Roberts this round (I have other issues :LOL:) but I'll definitely be offloading him as soon as a viable and safe option presents itself.
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It's actually a selling point for deferring a Roberts trade until necessary - because then we'll have extra information when it's critical, i.e. which rookies are actually getting selected through the bye weeks to give you that 40-50 extra points. Whereas a sideways trade now (on top of the good points on cash + earlier keepers) is riskier, as Sturt (or whomever) could be on the outer or injured by the time byes come around, wasting a trade.
 
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