Discussion 2025: AFL SuperCoach Discussion - OPEN

Do you start a $669k Gawn?

  • Yes

  • No


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Also worth noting that the change to the DPP this year to not require trading to do it is a huge bonus with the flexibility. Being able to effectively switch a D/M, M/F and D/F however you like is very liberating. You don't really need to use the flex for this, although it probably removes one of the moving parts out of the equation. Would take some serious planning to find the right flex for this role.

There's very few D/F though right now, someone like Tauru or Paton may be the key on this. It's even worse because the main guys slated for DEF moves that are forwards in Daniel and Maric are already locked into the F/M DPP. Maybe Curtin at Adelaide could be a contender depending how they want to use him.



Will come down to rookies but I'm not sure many will have a lot of players missing in those early byes. Only guys I'm really seeing that look likely to be there round 1 are Smith and Mills and a few will probably gamble on a premium or two, maybe a couple of other guys emerge as well but given it's mostly top sides that had little change I'm not sure if there will be a lot of names that pop up from them.

I'm not a fan of the loop in general in early rounds, largely because I'm awful at it, because of the lost cash generation. With essentially unlimited trades these days, the cash generation is the most important part, almost everyone is going to have 24+ premiums at the end of the season, so it comes down to the quality of those premiums and a few hundred k can make a huge difference there.
Definitely love the DPP change for my plan to work I think it is requiring the flex spot, at least early until you get enough DPP additions. Because all my mids are mid only, I wouldn’t have any way of moving a forward or defender to another spot if I didn’t have the flex.
Eg, if my forward E tons up and I want that score, I need to move one of those players out to get the donut in. If I had mid DPP I could probably make it work but until then being able to move a player to the flex spot opens up the possibility of looping 2 Es against each other.
Will need to really look at the fixture to see if it’s workable though, as I need the right DPP donut and the ability to loop the weaker rookies.
 
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That's also the exact same period that Lloyd pushed up onto a wing. Worth noting that Lloyd stayed on that wing even after JMc returned in the finals, JMc was pretty underdone though so that could be a significant factor in that.

It's definitely something to watch in preseason and see how the roles line up. Personally I'd love if Lloyd and JMc are on the wings to free Gulden to play in the guts where he's far and away his most impactful and much harder to take out of games for the opposition.


I'm not sure Roberts can hit premium though as Blakey and Florent will eat a lot of the points, albeit that finish to the season from round 18 is very impressive. The round 0 bye definitely hurts but he's cheap enough to be worth picking despite it if he is going to average 110+ like he did for those 7 weeks. I'd think he's probably more likely to settle in a similar region to what Short has historically done in that high 90s region which is right on the borderline of pickable at his price. Without the bye he'd be much higher on my radar. He's a very good little player.

From a training report on Swans match sim on Friday. Mills in the middle. But your good friend Rowbottom still getting a gig. Jmac in the "B" team.

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Got a question around the MN, now that everyone copped their 3% discount.

Does this mean the MN has changed and if so, what will that do to price fluctuations?

3% doesn't sound like much but it does, for instance, have Bont at an attractive 688k instead of the 708k he would have been at. At $500k, 3% is a very noticeable (and annoying) $15k price difference

So does a changed MN make Bont's price drops slower making it harder for us ti get him at discount? Does it make the potential price rises of your Green/Holmes/JHF types slower, making them less likely to get away from us if the break out? These differences could add up over the course of 12 positional upgrades
 
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Yeah the value is pretty tempting this year but remember there is a trap.

At the end of the year, you want to be running full premium or you will be losing ground in the overall and losing finals in your leagues.

The 10 MPs You mention with 7 having a view to being permanent is a concern. (Not having a go at you. I've got the same dilemma)

Fact is, it's majorly unlikely that you'll get 7 out of those 10 being best 6 or 8 in their line and that means they'll need upgrading. As a rule of thumb, it's 3 to upgrade a rookie to a premium and 2 to upgrade an MP.

In your example, if I read it right, you've started 6 premos, meaning you are at least 17 premos short of your desired end game. So immediately, that's a minimum of 2 * 17 = 34 trades up to 3 * 17 = 51 of your 40 trades.

As you mentioned, some of those MPs will be keepers so that drops those numbers a bit. However, you'll also note that we haven't yet earmarked any trades for corrections (4) and injuries (8).

So yep... heaps of value there but I reckon we could easily get trapped taking too much of a good thing
Most of that list are cheap enough to be picked for cash generation.

I'm personally looking like loading up in the forwards for the DPP as the keeper threshold is so much lower there that it greatly increase the keeper threshold.

Looking at the names available though:

Mills - Definitely has keeper potential, at his best he has #1 DEF potential.
Doedee - No keeper potential, imo but priced at 48 with 3 seasons of 80+ and a fourth at 77 has him capable of making 200k if the role is right. I'm not sure it will be as, imo, Andrews is a far better version of his best role, but we'll see.
Coleman - Keeper potential but I'd be surprised if he's available for round 1 the way things are looking. Similar to Doedee, he's got 200k potential though, which just makes him an expensive above average rookie type.
Bergman - I haven't seen his name mentioned a lot but he's very high on my radar, someone has to replace Houston and he's got the bonus of also being an excellent intercept marker. Evans also worth a mention here potentially.
Roberts - Posted above but there's some indicators he could put up keeper numbers.

There's a few others here as well.

Oliver - Obviously keeper potential.
Peatling - Very low keeper potential. He's awkwardly priced where the cash generation is also tough to pull off. Will be a big watch in preseason though, if he shows 100+ potential then that changes the equation.
Cumming - Borderline keeper potential as a DEF. Fitness the big question here but he's been mid 90s a couple of times when fit in teams with a lot of other strong rebounding options at GWS, at the Crows he'd be by far their clear best rebounder alongside Laird. Whether he can be fit enough to actually get on the park is the huge question here, price is fine.
Reid - Prodigious talent, I will be watching very closely in the preseason, if his engine is improved he could definitely push towards 110+ as early as this season. I'd put him in that Bont/Oliver category who went 103 and 111 in their 2nd seasons, I think he's a fair bit more refined than either of them were as well. In short, I rate him very highly.

My major concern on the mids is that there's very few bailout options popping up right now, albeit the rookie group looks strong so that's always an option.

Flynn - No keeper potential, imo, but if he's playing and fit he's got 200k in him and will outscore just about any other option at that price. No guarantee though.
Conway - Not as well priced and has the bye issue that Flynn doesn't but he's another to watch, very good ruckman who I think could push towards the 90s if he gets the #1 gig and none of the Cat's ruck shenanigans, I think the first is likely but the second might be even more likely unfortunately. Would really need to be cemented at that price.

Rucks are high risk because there's no way out of it when it fails. If Boyd is playing, starting him in the flex could be worthwhile as #1 ruck is a fairly good pathway to 80. The Marshall factor really makes me question that. Barnett playing as a KPD could be another option here but in a pretty good rookie crop I'm not sure you'd want him on field, albeit does provide a bit more security at least if you were to go Flynn/Boyd at R2/Flex.

Forwards are an absolute gold mine...

Macrae - #1 forward potential, he could be washed but if he's not then he's likely to be #1. Has had just one season outside of last season in his last 11 that wouldn't be the #1 forward on starting numbers and that was still good enough for 4th.
Daniel - #1 forward potential. 102 his best season as a rebounding defender.
Smith - Keeper potential. Has pushed close to 100 before. Mid 90s should probably do it.
Parker - Keeper potential. Will depend greatly on role and how they use him, their midfield is actually loaded so it was an odd team for mine for him to choose but if he's in the first 4 mids, he's probably a 90+ guy.
Maric - Keeper potential. Very much worth watching. Good ball using HB in a team that desperately needs that is the projected role. If he has it, no reason he can't put up 90s.
Phillipou - #1 forward potential. Elite talent that should have a pure midfield role this year and good protection around him with Steele and Macrae.
Bolton - Keeper potential, I'm not sure he's worth it over the less expensive names above given similar or even lower upside but do expect him to either flame out completely or push back towards the 90s of his past. Just depends on whether his head is in it, with some early bad signs but we'll see.
Greene - Keeper potential. Had a mare last year but one to watch.
Wood - Ditto.
Baker - Keeper potential. Role the question. I have no idea how they use him but as either a mid or HB, he's definitely got keeper potential. If it's forward then he's overpriced.
Kennedy - Keeper potential. I don't expect he gets the midfield role but if he does, then he scores very well.
Graham - Keeper potential. Always scored well as an inside mid, rarely used there as his role at Richmond was always to cover defensively for Martin after Lambert was done doing that. If he's in the first midfield group he could score very well. Eagles have big decisions there, to me it's Yeo and Reid and then a cluster of different types, Kelly is a butcher that runs well, Baker is classy but unproven, Graham is grunt (probably least needed alongside Yeo/Reid) and then there's a few of the kids who could put hands up also.
Thilthorpe - Keeper potential. This one is less likely, imo, but it's there. Was very limited last year after horrendous preseason but if he's fit he could take the league by storm, tremendous abilities.
Lukosius - No idea how they're using him. Given some of the forward injuries, that's seeming more likely now. As a defender though he's worth watching.

There's another 5 or 6 as well but basically, you've got a ton of options. Somehow almost none of the list above have the r0 bye either, it's actually crazy to rattle off 14 names and only 2 have the bye.

Obviously not all of that list will work. There's almost certainly only room for 2 of the 3 Eagles for example. Many are positional related and are probably less likely than likely to get the ideal roles but I'd personally be surprised if that list of 14 (and the other 5 or 6) don't produce 4 or 5 keeper options. The only way I really see it would be if there were some extreme DPP changes that change the landscape, for example Sheezel, Petracca, Bont, Heeney and Rozee types getting forward status and then unleashed into the mids. I'd bet good money that one of Macrae or Phillipou is a keeper (I'd bet on both also heading into the preseason).

My latest draft actually has 5 of that list in my team and I'm definitely open to another 3 of them if it works out that way. Doesn't hurt that many are DPP. A pretty sizeable chunk are also well and truly cheap enough to make 150k+ if they do only manage to move into the 80s region.
 
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From a training report on Swans match sim on Friday. Mills in the middle. But your good friend Rowbottom still getting a gig. Jmac in the "B" team.

View attachment 83229
Was Florent injured? I really like Paton at HB and he'd be an automatic pick if he won the gig, but surprised to see no Florent (who I'm very meh on).

No comment on Rowbottom, obviously his compromising pictures are of the board not the coach :mad:

McCartin forward is very interesting and seems stupid, not sure why you get rid of one of the best KPD although if it meant only one of McLean and Amartey I could live with it!

Got a question around the MN, now that everyone copped their 3% discount.

Does this mean the MN has changed and if so, what will that do to price fluctuations?

3% doesn't sound like much but it does, for instance, have Bont at an attractive 688k instead of the 708k he would have been at. At $500k, 3% is a very noticeable (and annoying) $15k price difference

So does a changed MN make Bont's price drops slower making it harder for us ti get him at discount? Does it make the potential price rises of your Green/Holmes/JHF types slower, making them less likely to get away from us if the break out? These differences could add up over the course of 12 positional upgrades
I'll stand corrected from one of the math geniuses around here but pretty sure it's proportionate. Basically deflation has hit SC and your 708k is now worth 688k but you get the same product!

Prices are now set across 31 positions and the magic number adjusts to account for that. It will move a bit throughout the season but more or less, this is the new normal.
 
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Was Florent injured? I really like Paton at HB and he'd be an automatic pick if he won the gig, but surprised to see no Florent (who I'm very meh on).

No comment on Rowbottom, obviously his compromising pictures are of the board not the coach :mad:

McCartin forward is very interesting and seems stupid, not sure why you get rid of one of the best KPD although if it meant only one of McLean and Amartey I could live with it!



I'll stand corrected from one of the math geniuses around here but pretty sure it's proportionate. Basically deflation has hit SC and your 708k is now worth 688k but you get the same product!

Prices are now set across 31 positions and the magic number adjusts to account for that. It will move a bit throughout the season but more or less, this is the new normal.

Not sure if the "switch at half time" means Florent was on the B team and switched to A team or he wasn't on at all and just came on for a half. Did not see a B team list.
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Yep. 100% agree with what you re saying, wogi. There is a stack of keeper potential and most of those names have a claim to it.

But by August, they will be up against Sheezel, Flanders, Bontempelli, Butters, Gawn and so on, all the way down to D6/M8/F6/R2 and now Flex.

By all means, we should be starting with copious amounts of value but there is a limit. We still have a limited number of trades. The extra ones haven't made life easier at the top, they have just reinforced the need for perfection. When deciding your starting premium/value mix, you should run a ruler over how many trades it will take you get that perfect squad

(Edit - I didn't address the 200k to be made with those MPs)

Again, it's a point well made. Can't argue with a player making you 200k. There needs to be nuance though. Remember that a 100k rookie making you that 200k is better than the one starting at 200k because the cheaper rookie allowed you to start with a better premium player elsewhere

I'm not saying that a $200k MP is a bad thing but too much of it necessitates you compromising your structure elsewhere forcing more trades on you later. There has to be a balance struck

In the land of the blind the one eyed man is king. In round 24, the man with 2 trades wins his cashy.
 
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Yeah the value is pretty tempting this year but remember there is a trap.

At the end of the year, you want to be running full premium or you will be losing ground in the overall and losing finals in your leagues.

The 10 MPs You mention with 7 having a view to being permanent is a concern. (Not having a go at you. I've got the same dilemma)

Fact is, it's majorly unlikely that you'll get 7 out of those 10 being best 6 or 8 in their line and that means they'll need upgrading. As a rule of thumb, it's 3 to upgrade a rookie to a premium and 2 to upgrade an MP.

In your example, if I read it right, you've started 6 premos, meaning you are at least 17 premos short of your desired end game. So immediately, that's a minimum of 2 * 17 = 34 trades up to 3 * 17 = 51 of your 40 trades.

As you mentioned, some of those MPs will be keepers so that drops those numbers a bit. However, you'll also note that we haven't yet earmarked any trades for corrections (4) and injuries (8).

So yep... heaps of value there but I reckon we could easily get trapped taking too much of a good thing
shot down from 50,000 feet without a parachute 😢

may as well not even bother about entering a team and playing hahaha

2 premium defenders
2 premium mids
2 premium rucks

+

McKercher - possibly doesn't score at keeper level , unless he loses a heap of cash he should be a easily enough sideways trade to fix

Mills & Coleman , no idea what they need to average to make that $ 100-150k profit before being upgrading

Oliver - IF he can return to his 110+ days obviously a no brainer (at worse maybe he ends up as Flex) - no guarantee the similar priced Ashcroft , Cerra , Day etc can average more

Based on last season's averages , the 6 highest players we can pick as Forward's are :-

JHF 99.7
Moore 97.7
Rankine 96.8
Jackson 94.5
Hogan 92.4
Daniels 90.0

Do they maintain or improve that this season I have no idea.

Maybe 90.0 will be to low

Macrae , Smith , Parker , Philippou , Daniel are all priced considerably less than that.

Macrae (new club , point to prove) 90+ 10 times - is his best behind him though 🤔

Smith (new club , returning from injuries) 90+ 2 times

Parker (new club , point to prove) 90+ 10 times does he get enough mid time 🤔

Philippou being picked on 4 games in the midfield last season so hoping he reached 90+

Daniel (new club , point to prove) 90+ 4 times returns to the most lucrative role in SC

High risk/high reward on maybe 4 but I won't be Robinson Crusoe in starting them

Maybe the rookies will prove to be better so perhaps bypass all 5 and go JHF , Moore + Lynch , SPP , J Martin (?) , Curtin (?) , Kako (?) , Spargo , Hewett , Stone etc , still need trades to upgrade the rookies

How will they score ? we don't know (yet) do they all make that magic $ 100k-$150k profit ?

I have been playing this game for years and getting worse and worse so maybe my decision making and judgement are way off.

So I am hoping that 6 premiums + McKercher , Oliver , Macrae , Smith , Philippou , Parker & Daniels all do work out = 13 premiums

Upgrade Mills (1-2 trades)
Upgrade Coleman (2 trades)
Upgrade D6 (3 trades)

Upgrade M5 (3 trades)
Upgrade M6 (3 trades)
Upgrade M7 (3 trades)
Upgrade M8 (3 trades)

Upgrade F5 via Smith (3 trades)
Upgrade F6 (3 trades)

Upgrade Flex (Flynn) 1-2 trades

I won't nail every rookie (who does) so that might be 27 trades all going well

Plus a allowance for corrections and LTI/suspensions

Hopefully it's a high risk/high reward ride and not all over by Round 6-8 like it is normally

Great post btw , might need a spreadsheet to work out possible/potential cash growth and how many trades I will actually need to get to full premium and if too many of them go pear shaped
 
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Let's do the exercise then

GnR's + Oliver

Sheezel , Sinclair , Clark

Bont , Butters , Serong + Oliver

Gawn , Xerri

JHF , Moore

Gives 10 premiums + Oliver

12 onfield rookies to upgrade @ 3 per trade = 36 trades

Leaves 4 trades for corrections , LTI' & suspension

Would need to nail every single rookie player for maximum dollar growth

or take the chance on the mid priced/value players on offer to start

interesting
 
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Yeah the value is pretty tempting this year but remember there is a trap.

At the end of the year, you want to be running full premium or you will be losing ground in the overall and losing finals in your leagues.

The 10 MPs You mention with 7 having a view to being permanent is a concern. (Not having a go at you. I've got the same dilemma)

Fact is, it's majorly unlikely that you'll get 7 out of those 10 being best 6 or 8 in their line and that means they'll need upgrading. As a rule of thumb, it's 3 to upgrade a rookie to a premium and 2 to upgrade an MP.

In your example, if I read it right, you've started 6 premos, meaning you are at least 17 premos short of your desired end game. So immediately, that's a minimum of 2 * 17 = 34 trades up to 3 * 17 = 51 of your 40 trades.

As you mentioned, some of those MPs will be keepers so that drops those numbers a bit. However, you'll also note that we haven't yet earmarked any trades for corrections (4) and injuries (8).

So yep... heaps of value there but I reckon we could easily get trapped taking too much of a good thing
Very good analysis. Seems like the sort of mix you need is 9-10 premiums, 7-8 mid pricers and 14 rookies. That would mean if you upgraded 6 mid pricers, that’s 12 trades. Assume that gives you 16 premiums. That would leave 7 spots. 7x3 =21 trades. That leaves 7 trades for injuries and potential sideways trades. really good food for thought. Thanks.
 
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Like I started English over Xerri last year to give me a guaranteed elite C option, only for Xerri to be by far the better option over the course of the season.
How many 2024 Xerri’s do we get each season do you reckon?

If you think you’ve abided by arguably the most important rule of all then no need to change a thing.
 
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