Discussion 2025: AFL SuperCoach Discussion
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Pretty lengthy write up with ads and photos in-between.
Sydney Swans track watch: Braeden Campbell, Corey Warner star in match sim as John Longmire looks on
With former coach John Longmire watching on, a number young Swans took it up to their more experience teammates in another high-intensity four-quarter hitout. Here’s how it all played out.
Lachlan McKirdy
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February 7, 2025 - 4:24PM
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Cox set to use Grand Final loss as fuel
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Former coach John Longmire watched on from a distance as the Swans were put through their paces in another absorbing intra-club match simulation.
Dean Cox was eager to see how his team solved problems on the fly, encouraging his coaches not to give too much feedback in the game and let the players fend for themselves.
And his former mentor would have liked what he saw, with a mix of standout performances from their experienced stars and young guns.
They played three 25-minute terms, with the final ‘quarter’ seeing the sides switched around so the first-team attack was lining up against the first-team defence.
A handful of players continued to be managed cautiously outside of the session, including Logan McDonald, Jesse Dattoli and Robbie Fox, who focused mainly on running. Harry Cunningham and Jake Lloyd also did not take part in the match but are not believed to be under any doubt for opening round.
McDonald and Cunningham even got involved in some of the warm-up drills before the session, kicking the ball and moving freely, before coming to the sidelines.
Former coach John Longmire, with CEO Tom Harley and chairman Andrew Pridham, was on hand to watch Sydney match in on Friday. Picture: Phil Hillyard
Peter Ladhams got the better of Brodie Grundy in the first bounce, grabbing the tap and breaking out of the stoppage for a slick clearance. The early pressure paid off for the blue side with Indhi Kirk catching Errol Gulden holding-the-ball and converting the ensuing free kick.
Callum Mills was playing across the ground, spending time in defence, midfield and in the half-forward line. He was managed throughout the session, coming off the ground during the second term.
Tom McCartin again looks to be improving his forward craft, reading the flight of the ball nicely for a strong early mark. He was finding separation nicely from Aaron Francis in what proved to be a good battle, with McCartin grabbing a goal to win the match-up.
Lewis Melican continued his strong form, taking a few intercept marks when the ball came in his direction. But Taylor Adams was also doing a great job of putting pressure on the 1s side and not allowing them to transition quickly out of defence.
Sydney Swans track watch: Braeden Campbell, Corey Warner star in match sim as John Longmire looks on
With former coach John Longmire watching on, a number young Swans took it up to their more experience teammates in another high-intensity four-quarter hitout. Here’s how it all played out.
Follow
@LMcKirdy7
7 min read
February 7, 2025 - 4:24PM
0 Comments
03:30
Cox set to use Grand Final loss as fuel
AFL: Incoming Sydney Swans coach Dean Cox is grateful for the... more
View more related videos
Former coach John Longmire watched on from a distance as the Swans were put through their paces in another absorbing intra-club match simulation.
Dean Cox was eager to see how his team solved problems on the fly, encouraging his coaches not to give too much feedback in the game and let the players fend for themselves.
And his former mentor would have liked what he saw, with a mix of standout performances from their experienced stars and young guns.
They played three 25-minute terms, with the final ‘quarter’ seeing the sides switched around so the first-team attack was lining up against the first-team defence.
A handful of players continued to be managed cautiously outside of the session, including Logan McDonald, Jesse Dattoli and Robbie Fox, who focused mainly on running. Harry Cunningham and Jake Lloyd also did not take part in the match but are not believed to be under any doubt for opening round.
McDonald and Cunningham even got involved in some of the warm-up drills before the session, kicking the ball and moving freely, before coming to the sidelines.
Former coach John Longmire, with CEO Tom Harley and chairman Andrew Pridham, was on hand to watch Sydney match in on Friday. Picture: Phil Hillyard
Peter Ladhams got the better of Brodie Grundy in the first bounce, grabbing the tap and breaking out of the stoppage for a slick clearance. The early pressure paid off for the blue side with Indhi Kirk catching Errol Gulden holding-the-ball and converting the ensuing free kick.
Callum Mills was playing across the ground, spending time in defence, midfield and in the half-forward line. He was managed throughout the session, coming off the ground during the second term.
Tom McCartin again looks to be improving his forward craft, reading the flight of the ball nicely for a strong early mark. He was finding separation nicely from Aaron Francis in what proved to be a good battle, with McCartin grabbing a goal to win the match-up.
Lewis Melican continued his strong form, taking a few intercept marks when the ball came in his direction. But Taylor Adams was also doing a great job of putting pressure on the 1s side and not allowing them to transition quickly out of defence.
The structure is fine, but double pies n the DEF Line is ambitious. Both players will perform well this year but with the early bye need to be a consideration. Three PIES missing in one week you will effect your early points standings. Perryman is better value assuming he rolls through the MID rotation. Also Just think you need a stronger player in the flex position that has the potential to pump out 100 + pts to cover those players you have selected with the early bye.
Good Luck
Good Luck
Anyone else considering just tanking in round 12 ?
My initial team consisted of Sheezel, Bont, Butters, Xerri, TDK, JHF, Luke Parker, and Caleb Daniel.
Also 3 rookies Powell-Pepper, Berry and Davidson but they should be cashed out by round 12.
I've now swapped out Butters for Brayshaw, JHF for Will Ashcroft, and TDK for Gawn, but prefer my initial squad.
My initial team consisted of Sheezel, Bont, Butters, Xerri, TDK, JHF, Luke Parker, and Caleb Daniel.
Also 3 rookies Powell-Pepper, Berry and Davidson but they should be cashed out by round 12.
I've now swapped out Butters for Brayshaw, JHF for Will Ashcroft, and TDK for Gawn, but prefer my initial squad.
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Have certainly thought about it. Essentially you still have the same amount of players overall through the byes. Will hurt the ranking in 12 but you should make it up through the other bye rounds. Unless people slingshot their way through the byes. But then you'll be up on them in trades. I'm sure someone cleverer than me could do the maths behind it.
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Agreed! The cash cows will be well and truly ready for culling by then & all of Sheezel, Bont, Butters, Xerri, TDK, JHF and even Parker & Daniel could/should all be top 10 in their respective positions.
As long as you keep an eye on the bye and try to avoid trading in anyone with the round 12 bye, you should be fine and as @donnybuang mentioned, there’s every chance you’ll make up the difference by (potentially) having less players effected by the earlier bye rounds!
As long as you keep an eye on the bye and try to avoid trading in anyone with the round 12 bye, you should be fine and as @donnybuang mentioned, there’s every chance you’ll make up the difference by (potentially) having less players effected by the earlier bye rounds!
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In relation to Round 12, I have a different point of view. I think carrying too many R12 players could see you lose too much ground.
My theory goes like this:
Assume the big 5 MP become keepers. Then people’s starting sides are something like 13 premos plus 2-3 stepping stones, or 14 strong premos.
between rounds 5-11, let’s assume you can upgrade 5-6 premos. so the most probable shape of your side is 18 premos plus 2 stepping stones or 19 premos. If you are running 8 from R12, then your team is 10 premos plus 2 stepping stones plus 6 rookies. R13. You had 3, but add one more premo from R12. You are now running 16 premos plus 2 stepping stones, or 17 premos plus one rookie.
If you started 8 from R12 and 3 from R13, then you only had 3-4 from Rds 14-16. You added 6 from R5-11, so now you have 9-10 for R14-16. Add one in each of R14-16 and you have say 12 across those 3 rounds. Let’s say 3 each.
If you started with 8+3 from R12/13, R14 is 21 premos less 3 on the bye = 18 premos. R15 is 22 premos less 3 on the bye is 19 premos. R16 is 23 premos less 3 on the bye = 20 premos.
So my theory is that you almost have a waste of premos in R15 and R16 and having to use 6 rookies in R12.
Someone who starts with only 3 from R12 could basically go through all the byes with no rookies onfield. Would having 20 vs 18 premos in R16 gain you the points lost of having 6 rookies versus no rookies in R12. My view is no.
the other point here is that the rookies you would be relying on in R12 are third wave rookies, or at best some second wave rookies.
this theory has led me to believe 3 from R12 is ideal, but 4 with 1 rookies would be ok. I would start to feel uncomfortable at starting 5 and having 3 rookies onfield in R12.
whole lot of theory and suppositions going on here. I know. Best laid plans etc. but I really think this extra bye round has changed things. We have been previously used to having 14 premos plus 4 rookies as a passing mark, with 16+2 as a good bye round. I think it all changes this year when it’s actually feasible to be running no rookies in the byes.
Time will tell if this is just another BS theory or something real, but planning and strategy is actually the fun part of this game for me.
My theory goes like this:
Assume the big 5 MP become keepers. Then people’s starting sides are something like 13 premos plus 2-3 stepping stones, or 14 strong premos.
between rounds 5-11, let’s assume you can upgrade 5-6 premos. so the most probable shape of your side is 18 premos plus 2 stepping stones or 19 premos. If you are running 8 from R12, then your team is 10 premos plus 2 stepping stones plus 6 rookies. R13. You had 3, but add one more premo from R12. You are now running 16 premos plus 2 stepping stones, or 17 premos plus one rookie.
If you started 8 from R12 and 3 from R13, then you only had 3-4 from Rds 14-16. You added 6 from R5-11, so now you have 9-10 for R14-16. Add one in each of R14-16 and you have say 12 across those 3 rounds. Let’s say 3 each.
If you started with 8+3 from R12/13, R14 is 21 premos less 3 on the bye = 18 premos. R15 is 22 premos less 3 on the bye is 19 premos. R16 is 23 premos less 3 on the bye = 20 premos.
So my theory is that you almost have a waste of premos in R15 and R16 and having to use 6 rookies in R12.
Someone who starts with only 3 from R12 could basically go through all the byes with no rookies onfield. Would having 20 vs 18 premos in R16 gain you the points lost of having 6 rookies versus no rookies in R12. My view is no.
the other point here is that the rookies you would be relying on in R12 are third wave rookies, or at best some second wave rookies.
this theory has led me to believe 3 from R12 is ideal, but 4 with 1 rookies would be ok. I would start to feel uncomfortable at starting 5 and having 3 rookies onfield in R12.
whole lot of theory and suppositions going on here. I know. Best laid plans etc. but I really think this extra bye round has changed things. We have been previously used to having 14 premos plus 4 rookies as a passing mark, with 16+2 as a good bye round. I think it all changes this year when it’s actually feasible to be running no rookies in the byes.
Time will tell if this is just another BS theory or something real, but planning and strategy is actually the fun part of this game for me.
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I must admit, I hadn’t thought about the extra bye round from this perspective and it definitely makes sense!
It’s such a shame that I have so much confidence in all of Sheezel, Bont, Butters, Xerri, TDK (Carlton supporter bias), JHF, Daniel (and Parker although I’m not starting him) being really good starting selections.
Id be kicking myself all season if I traded one of them out for someone I’m not as confident in, purely to even out the byes, only to be left with an underperforming premium that ends up costing me more points overall anyways!
It’s such a shame that I have so much confidence in all of Sheezel, Bont, Butters, Xerri, TDK (Carlton supporter bias), JHF, Daniel (and Parker although I’m not starting him) being really good starting selections.
Id be kicking myself all season if I traded one of them out for someone I’m not as confident in, purely to even out the byes, only to be left with an underperforming premium that ends up costing me more points overall anyways!
It certainly sounds extremely interesting (in theory) and well explained.
I would have to write it all down and map it out up to Round 12-15 to fully understand how it could work.
My initial reaction would be if you only start 2 Round 12 premiums + 1 of Daniel/Parker who do you sacrifice from the start and then wait until Round 13 to bring them (or alternatives in)
Based on last season points
D : Sheezel (5th on aggregate) , Newman (10th - injured) , Dale (12th)
M : Bont (1st) , Butters (2nd) , Treloar (9th - injured to start) , Cripps (10th) , LDU (12th)
R : Xerri (1st) , English (6th)
F : Horne-Francis (4th)
Throw in Rozee who offers value as a starting pick + TDK (if no Pittonet)
McKercher possibly as well
I guess then if it is 2 from Sheezel/Bont/Butters/Xerri it comes down to finding a alternative that can score similar on the 2 that you don't start
Early byes for alternative premiums doesn't make things any easier.
Round 13 could be a long wait to bring them in though.
Certainly extremely interesting to think about and work through though.
I would have to write it all down and map it out up to Round 12-15 to fully understand how it could work.
My initial reaction would be if you only start 2 Round 12 premiums + 1 of Daniel/Parker who do you sacrifice from the start and then wait until Round 13 to bring them (or alternatives in)
Based on last season points
D : Sheezel (5th on aggregate) , Newman (10th - injured) , Dale (12th)
M : Bont (1st) , Butters (2nd) , Treloar (9th - injured to start) , Cripps (10th) , LDU (12th)
R : Xerri (1st) , English (6th)
F : Horne-Francis (4th)
Throw in Rozee who offers value as a starting pick + TDK (if no Pittonet)
McKercher possibly as well
I guess then if it is 2 from Sheezel/Bont/Butters/Xerri it comes down to finding a alternative that can score similar on the 2 that you don't start
Early byes for alternative premiums doesn't make things any easier.
Round 13 could be a long wait to bring them in though.
Certainly extremely interesting to think about and work through though.
Well, you certainly confused me with that post
Might be because I've had a couple of beers after a large day
I think the key to what you're saying is to minimise round 12 premos missing to 3, considering that the aim is to have just the one rookie score to count if you've got to the stage of having 20 premos/MP's. That's my aim with just the five rookie priced players in my starting side. There's the distinct possibility (and one that I'm aiming for) of having no rookies and a squad of 23 premos/MP's come round 12.
It's a bit like a Fantasy style strategy, get the rookies off the field then concentrate on luxury upgrades. Obviously different with limited trades and the fact that we probably need 23 premos, dropping the accessibility, or the amount of trades available for those luxury upgrades.
There's a few players in the team expressly for the purpose of upgrading before their byes to players that have had theirs, Peatling, Rivers and Maric, hopefully they can hold down their spots. Sanders is slated to be traded to Phillipou, when and if that happens, Parker probably in the same boat getting traded to JHF or Rankine (depending on stuff)
It's not going to be easy considering the plans for those already mentioned, but upgrading 4 or 5 rookies to players with those later byes should see me fielding pretty strong sides over each of the mid season byes.
Might be because I've had a couple of beers after a large dayI think the key to what you're saying is to minimise round 12 premos missing to 3, considering that the aim is to have just the one rookie score to count if you've got to the stage of having 20 premos/MP's. That's my aim with just the five rookie priced players in my starting side. There's the distinct possibility (and one that I'm aiming for) of having no rookies and a squad of 23 premos/MP's come round 12.
It's a bit like a Fantasy style strategy, get the rookies off the field then concentrate on luxury upgrades. Obviously different with limited trades and the fact that we probably need 23 premos, dropping the accessibility, or the amount of trades available for those luxury upgrades.
There's a few players in the team expressly for the purpose of upgrading before their byes to players that have had theirs, Peatling, Rivers and Maric, hopefully they can hold down their spots. Sanders is slated to be traded to Phillipou, when and if that happens, Parker probably in the same boat getting traded to JHF or Rankine (depending on stuff)
It's not going to be easy considering the plans for those already mentioned, but upgrading 4 or 5 rookies to players with those later byes should see me fielding pretty strong sides over each of the mid season byes.
Something you also need to factor in is the difference between the premium you start and the R12 premium you fade. Currently the appeal of the R12 guys is their ceiling and perceived security, so if you end up with 2-3 premiums that average 10 points less, that could be between 220-330 points you are behind just getting to R12.
Often with bye round there are injuries to key guys where teams with the best laid plans don’t field the optimal amount, so it it could be that you fade the best R12 guys and still end up with rookies on field late in the byes.
Often with bye round there are injuries to key guys where teams with the best laid plans don’t field the optimal amount, so it it could be that you fade the best R12 guys and still end up with rookies on field late in the byes.
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You are right. So many variables and no one right answer. This game moves so much that me even trying to predict R12 is foolish arrogance. But, like backing in a Pod or an anti-pod, you gotta go with your gut. Or in this case my over-analyzing over-emotionally invested brain.
But there is a grain of truth in the fact that the different bye structures this year might mean we have to think slightly differently about them. Probably hindsight will be our best teacher.
But there is a grain of truth in the fact that the different bye structures this year might mean we have to think slightly differently about them. Probably hindsight will be our best teacher.
It's actually extremely interesting to look at :-
I have the fab 6 (Daniel , Parker , Macrae , Mills , Oliver , Smith)
If you then limited yourself to a maximum 5 keepers from Round 12 to start so 3 premiums from C/NM/PA/WB
Can't see myself going without Bont & Sheezel until Round 13.
Bont ✓ Sheezel ✓ + let's say Cripps
Finding a starting mid (without the early Bye to match Butters) , let's use Brayshaw for arguments sake
Finding a starting ruck (without the early Bye to match Xerri) , let's use Marshall for arguments sakes
D: Sheezel , Clark (?) , Wanganeen-Milera (?) , Mills
M: Bont , Cripps , Brayshaw (?) , Dawson (?) , Oliver
R: Gawn , Marshall (?)
F: Macrae , Smith * , Parker * , Daniel *
= 15 keepers
NOTE : The non Round 12 players are a guide only
Might have created a issue for Round 13 with 5 on that Bye (more thought required)
$ 2,363,300.00 for 16 remaining players = approx $ 147k per player , possibly achievable depending on Round 1 rookies
8 onfield rookies to upgrade between Round 5 - 11 , not sure if that's achievable or not.
All going well we would enter Round 12 with :-
Clark , Wanganeen-Milera , Mills
Brayshaw , Dawson , Oliver
Gawn , Marshall
Macrae , Smith
= 10
+ 8 onfield starting rookies that we have been upgrading along the way (if we have upgraded at least 4 it might end up being 14 keepers + 4 rookies)
Might need the bench for cover just in case.
I guess a lot would come down to who we can upgrade to in Round 5 - 11 or do we wait until Round 13 , 14 & 15 to bring in premiums bye free.
Are the likes of Butters , JHF , Rozee in our plans for Round 13 onwards ?
Obviously a lot can and will change before then.
I have the fab 6 (Daniel , Parker , Macrae , Mills , Oliver , Smith)
If you then limited yourself to a maximum 5 keepers from Round 12 to start so 3 premiums from C/NM/PA/WB
Can't see myself going without Bont & Sheezel until Round 13.
Bont ✓ Sheezel ✓ + let's say Cripps
Finding a starting mid (without the early Bye to match Butters) , let's use Brayshaw for arguments sake
Finding a starting ruck (without the early Bye to match Xerri) , let's use Marshall for arguments sakes
D: Sheezel , Clark (?) , Wanganeen-Milera (?) , Mills
M: Bont , Cripps , Brayshaw (?) , Dawson (?) , Oliver
R: Gawn , Marshall (?)
F: Macrae , Smith * , Parker * , Daniel *
= 15 keepers
NOTE : The non Round 12 players are a guide only
Might have created a issue for Round 13 with 5 on that Bye (more thought required)
$ 2,363,300.00 for 16 remaining players = approx $ 147k per player , possibly achievable depending on Round 1 rookies
8 onfield rookies to upgrade between Round 5 - 11 , not sure if that's achievable or not.
All going well we would enter Round 12 with :-
Clark , Wanganeen-Milera , Mills
Brayshaw , Dawson , Oliver
Gawn , Marshall
Macrae , Smith
= 10
+ 8 onfield starting rookies that we have been upgrading along the way (if we have upgraded at least 4 it might end up being 14 keepers + 4 rookies)
Might need the bench for cover just in case.
I guess a lot would come down to who we can upgrade to in Round 5 - 11 or do we wait until Round 13 , 14 & 15 to bring in premiums bye free.
Are the likes of Butters , JHF , Rozee in our plans for Round 13 onwards ?
Obviously a lot can and will change before then.
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Not a great C for Rd 1 actually as they play first up, better off as a VC unless you are super confident nothing can go wrong / have no way to loop. Guessing you haven't looked at that in detail yet though.
Love seeing your teams Professor, I used to think I was good at picking a POD or two, but like always, there's someone here far better than me at everything fantasy sports related, and I can't come close to that. All the best.
Love seeing your teams Professor, I used to think I was good at picking a POD or two, but like always, there's someone here far better than me at everything fantasy sports related, and I can't come close to that. All the best.