News Injuries & Suspensions

[Rowsus]

“The first thing you think is what society has conditioned you to think. The second thing is what defines you as a person.”.

And there in a nutshell, is what I'm saying is wrong with world/society today. The first thing you think, should be what YOU think, not some contrived, media driven idea what society might want you to think!!!
We should allow the Rupert's of the world to control and direct our thinking and responses? The game is over and lost, if that is the case!

 

[Montyjnr]

I'm not sure that it is. Both have no place in the game and if one is an actual ban, then they both are.

We should never have slurs on a sliding scale. It’s either a slur or it isn’t, and any slur should be punished harshly regardless of what it is.
Otherwise it just creates a perception that a little bit of slurring is acceptable and that should never be the case.

Yeah I probably see it differently.

Finlayson calling someone a is categorically ****phobic. The word is unmistakably a slur against gay men.

Whereas it is quite reasonable that Clarko just used as an alternative for or without having a thought for the ****phobic connection it may have.

I just don't see the situations to be the same really.

 

[Rowsus]

Guess we agree to disagree because this is pretty much victim blaming. I can say whatever I want and if people are offended that’s their problem?
Why have a swearing ban and rules around what people say on here then? Sounds like everything is fine and people just need to not be bothered by it?

Straw man. Look it up.

 

[Chumpion]

I think you need to Google the meaning of "straw man argument". Using your own example, in a similar straw man way, if I knick your ear lobe with a knife, I should be punished the same as if I plunged it into your heart. "We shouldn't view these things as a scale"? Where do we draw the line? Of course these things need to be scaled! Just like all penalties/suspensions in the AFL are scaled. Like my original point, how is this 3 times worse than a dangerous tackle? Why hasn't the media been suspended for 3 weeks? Because without them, the supposedly maligned group would never even be aware it happened, or what was said. You imply that gay people might feel marginalised by the use of the word. What caused this marginalisation?:The use, or the reporting of the use? Who did more damage here?:Finlayson or the media?

So if no one heard it then it’s ok? If the media doesn’t report it, it’s fine.. same as when a kid at school does it? It’s all fine? We need to draw a line and say it’s unacceptable, because the reality is people die from this. Bullying and harassment is a huge issue, and by allowing these things to be seen as ok, it ripples down society to the point that it has real impacts. Yes, in isolation the Finlayson situation doesn’t “look” bad but if you don’t draw a hard line on a visible, public, respected figure then you are signalling that it’s ok.
That road leads to bad ends, whether that is suicide, self harm, repression, or whatever.

I won’t stand here and say my examples are amazing or my points the most articulate, but I will 100% die on my stance that we shouldn’t never allow it to be seen as acceptable to use derogatory slur that marginalises or derides a particular group of people. People are people, and using words that make any one of them appear less than is unacceptable.

 

[Brookesy]

Yeah I probably see it differently.

Finlayson calling someone a is categorically ****phobic. The word is unmistakably a slur against gay men.

Whereas it is quite reasonable that Clarko just used as an alternative for or without having a thought for the ****phobic connection it may have.

I just don't see the situations to be the same really.

Unless we are telepathic we can't know Clarkson's actual intention or what he was thinking, and I'm not sure that matters; it's definitely a ****phobic slur.

Edit: Also is a way worse insult than the other two you likened it to.

 

[Montyjnr]

Unless we are telepathic we can't know Clarkson's actual intention or what he was thinking, and I'm not sure that matters; it's definitely a ****phobic slur.

Yeah I am probably more willing to give him the benefit of the doubt given I admittedly had never thought about its link to ****phobia until the media pointed it out with this incident (not that I ever use the word personally).

 

[Chumpion]

And there in a nutshell, is what I'm saying is wrong with world/society today. The first thing you think, should be what YOU think, not some contrived, media driven idea what society might want you to think!!!
We should allow the Rupert's of the world to control and direct our thinking and responses?;The game is over and lost, if that is the case!

The point of the saying is that it’s impossible to ignore the influence of society but you should be defined by what you think. If you go along with society then that defines you just as much.

But I disagree because saying it’s what you think allows for racist, ****phobic, hateful discourse to be common. We are seeing problems world wide because people are giving into base feelings. As a society we hold a standard of what is acceptable and we should 1. Be constantly striving for that to be of the highest standard, and 2. Challenging people who are not upholding that standard.

Part of how we've come as far as we have is because we have said “enough” to segregation, slavery, etc, and embraced woman’s rights, sexual rights, etc.

I’m a huge advocate for the ads where a guy is belittling his partner and the group stand up and tell him it’s not ok. That’s the only way to drive change.. and saying it’s a little ok isn’t enough because the pull from the base levels will be stronger than the desire to strive for good, unless we all collectively strive for good.

Mindful that this is well beyond the realms of footy discourse so maybe we need to drag all of these comments to a new thread, but I’m equally happy to just leave it there.

Also, I did look into the straw man argument. I can recognise your point and I’ll never say I’m the most eloquent person or best at crafting my arguments. But I’ll also standby my main point which is this stuff isn’t ok, and we can’t allow for levels of okayness if we truly want to drive change and be better.

You don’t have to want that, and you don’t have to agree with me that it’s better. But I strongly feel that any derogatory word that makes a marginalised group further marginalised is not ok, not ever.

 

[Rowsus]

So if no one heard it then it’s ok? If the media doesn’t report it, it’s fine.. same as when a kid at school does it? It’s all fine? We need to draw a line and say it’s unacceptable, because the reality is people die from this. Bullying and harassment is a huge issue, and by allowing these things to be seen as ok, it ripples down society to the point that it has real impacts. Yes, in isolation the Finlayson situation doesn’t “look” bad but if you don’t draw a hard line on a visible, public, respected figure then you are signalling that it’s ok.
That road leads to bad ends, whether that is suicide, self harm, repression, or whatever.

I won’t stand here and say my examples are amazing or my points the most articulate, but I will 100% die on my stance that we shouldn’t never allow it to be seen as acceptable to use derogatory slur that marginalises or derides a particular group of people. People are people, and using words that make any one of them appear less than is unacceptable.

While I agree in principle with most you say here, I do believe there is scale in wrong doings. This has been graded as 3 times worse than smacking a players head against the turf in a tackle, and but for media reporting, the people you'd have as becoming suicidal because Finlayson said it, would never know it happened. I truly believe a fine, and suspended sentence would have sufficed in this case.
You can only protect people so much, at some point, they need to take responsibility for themselves, and their own responses and reactions to the world around them. The world needs to stop seeing themselves through other people's eyes, words and deeds, because unfortunately, the default position for many is, "I can only rise myself, by dragging others down below me". We will never be rid of these people, so we all need to be armed with the tools to recognise and deal with them.

 

[eekraN]

It's thinking like this, that leads people to think the crazy ideas put out there like " We need to stop calling it breast feeding, because some can't do that. We need to call it chest feeding". Or worse still "We should ask a babies permission before we change a diaper". It's a slippery slope, and once you venture down it, there's no drawing a line, and no turning back!

I am with you on this and while stuff like this is actually going on, I think you have extended the boundaries beyond the discussion here i.e. sliding scale

We are a slowly evolving society and should be past slurs such as the one Finalyson used and rascism more generally. We have worked pretty hard as a society to get to the point at where we are today and stuff like this is a little disheartening. From memory, this is the first instance where an incident like this has resulted in a suspension? Hit it hard and hopefully it leaves our game. There are many other ways to get under the skin of players than reverting to primitive slurs.

 

[Rowsus]

The point of the saying is that it’s impossible to ignore the influence of society but you should be defined by what you think. If you go along with society then that defines you just as much.

But I disagree because saying it’s what you think allows for racist, ****phobic, hateful discourse to be common. We are seeing problems world wide because people are giving into base feelings. As a society we hold a standard of what is acceptable and we should 1. Be constantly striving for that to be of the highest standard, and 2. Challenging people who are not upholding that standard.

Part of how we've come as far as we have is because we have said “enough” to segregation, slavery, etc, and embraced woman’s rights, sexual rights, etc.

I’m a huge advocate for the ads where a guy is belittling his partner and the group stand up and tell him it’s not ok. That’s the only way to drive change.. and saying it’s a little ok isn’t enough because the pull from the base levels will be stronger than the desire to strive for good, unless we all collectively strive for good.

Mindful that this is well beyond the realms of footy discourse so maybe we need to drag all of these comments to a new thread, but I’m equally happy to just leave it there.

Also, I did look into the straw man argument. I can recognise your point and I’ll never say I’m the most eloquent person or best at crafting my arguments. But I’ll also standby my main point which is this stuff isn’t ok, and we can’t allow for levels of okayness if we truly want to drive change and be better.

You don’t have to want that, and you don’t have to agree with me that it’s better. But I strongly feel that any derogatory word that makes a marginalised group further marginalised is not ok, not ever.

Again. Agree with most of this. Just questioning who is setting the standard, and where the line is drawn. It will be different for everyone, so who decides where the line is?
Let's call a ceasefire, and say we agree on a lot of this, but disagree on some details.

 

[Chumpion]

Again. Agree with most of this. Just questioning who is setting the standard, and where the line is drawn. It will be different for everyone, so who decides where the line is?
Let's call a ceasefire, and say we agree on a lot of this, but disagree on some details.

I’m happy with that - I think we are broadly on the same side of the line but apart on exactly where.
Like a lot of things, this would have been much better in person over a beer than on a SC forum via written word.. a lot gets lost in the way it’s written and read that is much better verbally.

But I will say, regardless of agreement or disagreement, it’s always good to be able to debate a position from a respectful position without it becoming personal!

Consider my fire ceased.

 

[PC]

That's a whole lotta posts about one suspension

 

[scarfaceclaw]

I just feel like the suspension is a public relations exercise to protect future revenue streams and markets rather than a substantive moral stance. I'm not a big fan of punishments for show rather than with some substantial force behind them. Pretending an issue has been resolved is very different from acknowledging a problem exists and actively working on a positive outcome.

 

[donnybuang]

I just feel like the suspension is a public relations exercise to protect future revenue streams and markets rather than a substantive moral stance. I'm not a big fan of punishments for show rather than with some substantial force behind them. Pretending an issue has been resolved is very different from acknowledging a problem exists and actively working on a positive outcome.

That goes for everything with the AFL in reality. Reducing the violence in the game was done to make sure mums didn't stop their kids playing junior footy, not because of a moral stance against violent acts.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

I came for the injury reports, but stayed for the HR seminar ...

 

[scarfaceclaw]

It will be great when the afl stops saturating its telecasts with gambling ads! Finlayson out should be good for georgiades!

 

[BigRuss]

2 port players made an example of so far this year. There’s no room for slurs of any type in the modern world but the inconsistency continues to be the issue.

Pretty simple though, if you don’t want to be at risk of punishment - don’t do things worthy of punishment.

 

[7/11]

2 port players made an example of so far this year. There’s no room for slurs of any type in the modern world but the inconsistency continues to be the issue.

Pretty simple though, if you don’t want to be at risk of punishment - don’t to things worthy of punishment.

Great message for all walks of life. There’s a few parents around that would do well to remind their kids of this.

 

[BigRuss]

Great message for all walks of life. There’s a few parents around that would do well to remind their kids of this.

Mate I run a high school and am in charge of 1400 teenagers day to day. I could talk for hours about the issues that arise from group identity and degradation of the average parents ability to assume any sort of responsibility.

Common sense is dead and parents are the ones that killed it.

Wouldn’t mind this thread going back to talking about the footy though.

 

[NT.Thunder]

As a dinosaur living in the new world I will not be drawn into this conversation.