Discussion 2025: AFL SuperCoach Discussion - OPEN

Do you start a $669k Gawn?

  • Yes

  • No


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Jayden Short just got married on weekend,can't find any stats on whether that's a SC positive?
Tough to differentiate but likely regressive with a type 1 error, a limited degree of freedom and the line of best fit indicates no correlation.

Typically results in a decrease in attacking stats with score involvements, score launches and metres gained set to suffer along with tackle efficiency and a greater loss of one-on-one contests.

Another factor to consider is whether an indoor or outdoor venue, as this time of season sees structures and material more prone to falter?

Therefore, not as σ an option in comparison to others.
 
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Leaves me with $33,000 to shift around rookies/ changes over the coming 1000 iterations of this side.
Rd 12 Bye the obvious challenge which will likely see a few tweaks occur as a result.
A lot of watch list in the preseason but happy with where it's sitting currently.

Screenshot 2025-01-07 at 1.21.29 pm.png
 
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Anyone else's budget change last couple of days?
I logged into my saved team to see that it's now $481,000 over the limited - strange.
 
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Amazing analysis @freowho, much kudos (y)

Just on Bont, he is the most reliable VC/Capt option every week & is so durable - rarely misses a game/ can play through niggles.

Average of 126.4 last year & 129.7 the previous year - to me he is the modern day GAJ. Just has the perfect SC game & champion data love him.

No early bye & just 1 bye overall in round 12 - that ticks another box for me when looking at super premiums.

First 4 games are v North, Collingwood, Carlton & Freo

Last 3 v North :- 123,157 + 169

Last 3 v Coll :- 186,123 +125

Last 3 v Carl :- 108, 112 + 105

Last 3 v Freo :- 162, 102 + 114 (scored 182 4th last game v Freo btw)

So his record v the teams he plays to start the season is excellent, Carlton the only one that is slighty unders.
Correct, but does Mr Magnets send him forward more the next few years yo try to get another 4 years from the Champion. Brave move if you dont start the Bont.
 
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It's a shame that Richmond don't have much to offer in SC.
They have the best bye of all teams as the only team in R14 that doesn't play in round 0.
Taranto Cheap not a keeper but thinking of flipping early to Daicos after the early bye.
Short
Lynch if he is fit
And then you have a couple of Rookies in the mix.
And i reckon someone could surprise when they are added to the midfield rotation.
 
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Flanders with the r0 is a huge issue. He's a sloot but 130 average is such a huge ask in a midfield that already has a couple of other sloots in Miller and Anderson and a guy who takes all the tackles and contested pill in Rowell. Especially for a coach who has never had players put up great midfield numbers, last year was already easily the best a midfield has scored under Dimma.

Even more so given the r2 bye makes it so avoidable as part of the correction trades and at his price point it only takes a couple of decent 105 type scores for him to be 50k+ cheaper in round 5 and as good as he was last year, he was much more boom or bust as a midfielder with 5 of his 9 games under 115 coming in the last 9 rounds after moving midfield, he cancelled them out with a couple of monster scores to average the same across the two roles but he was much more consistent at HB.

I would expect that most would be not starting him and targeting as one of the first upgrades. Definitely could be wrong but that's my expectation.
Pleased to hear this as PODs look like being few & far between this season with the fixture the way it is. My issue with taking him, and the other top line premos I look like starting, is how many I can afford seeing as I need 23 'premiums' by seasons end on field.

I'll certainly need to be scrupulous with my funds in finding value and getting the right players at the right time, but I suppose that's every season really.
 
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Taranto Cheap not a keeper but thinking of flipping early to Daicos after the early bye.
Short
Lynch if he is fit
And then you have a couple of Rookies in the mix.
And i reckon someone could surprise when they are added to the midfield rotation.
Wait and see on Short's role
Smillie and Lalor will debut early, both with minimal minutes in the midfield, Smillie predominately of HB, Lalor mainly forward. Blight will probably get a gig down back depending on Gibcus's rehab.
McAulliffe looks to be the one who'll spend a bit more time in the mid mix with Taranto spending more time forward.
 
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Taranto Cheap not a keeper but thinking of flipping early to Daicos after the early bye.
Short
Lynch if he is fit
And then you have a couple of Rookies in the mix.
And i reckon someone could surprise when they are added to the midfield rotation.
I don't think he is worth the early flip. If you believe in him going 105+ you just hold pushing him to M8-10 and fix later.

I believe he could do a similar job to Crouch from last season for a tad more of the budget.
 
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Pleased to hear this as PODs look like being few & far between this season with the fixture the way it is. My issue with taking him, and the other top line premos I look like starting, is how many I can afford seeing as I need 23 'premiums' by seasons end on field.

I'll certainly need to be scrupulous with my funds in finding value and getting the right players at the right time, but I suppose that's every season really.
Cash generation might have to be handled a bit differently this year in comparison to the last few years. We're not going to be gifted the Ashcroft, Daicos, Sheezel and McKercher types this year by the look of the crop. Lindsay, Travaglia, El-Hawli, Draper, Allan and Smillie look to be the best from a production POV, maybe Jagga as that pure ball pig, but I doubt he has the distribution skills to start off HB like the others. Whilst a lot of the other draftees could well debut early, their high prices and low production given the likely roles, will limit their price growth.

Rookies like, Lalor, FOS, Langford and Lombard will likely be stationed in the forward lines, Draper could well do the same. I currently have most of the aforementioned as placeholders but I'm not convinced yet of their ability to generate cash.

Mid Pricers are where I'm hoping (praying) that good cash gen will come from. Players like Mills, Coleman, Oliver, Peatling, Cumming, Fort, then the Fab4 in the forwards are the ones that will make or break my season. Some could well be keepers, others could be great stepping stones and some will fail. There's 7 MP's in my current lineup (not including Lynch who I'm classing as a rookie) combined with 6 on field rookies, leaving 8 keeper/Premos. So I really need 4 of those MP's to gain keeper status (or close to) and the other 3 to be stepping stones to those uber keepers.

I've (so far) spent up big on D1, M1, R1, R2 and Flex, hopefully giving me good C/VC options and a set n forget base.

Rookie rucks could be quite pivotal in the cash gen stakes and I'll be aiming to start and cycle through as many as I can, possibly using Flex where I might have to have two ruck only options like a Fort and Boyd for example.
 
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I wonder how Brisbane replace Daniher. Do they just plonk in Day or play Fort as a second ruck when Oscar is fit.
Henry Smith might get first dibs - he's the future, and Fort really isn't a forward. Indications are Day is purely a backup - but gut feel is that if he stays fit he'd be a smokey to grab the spot if Smith doesn't shine up forward (and he is really more of a ruck).
 
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Saw that AFL.com.au posted an article on every team's best 22 and thought I'd go through and try to pick out all the rookie priced players in there.

Here is a link to the article: https://www.afl.com.au/news/1260580/your-clubs-best-22-in-2025-whos-in-whos-out-whos-new

Clearly the best 22 exercise is a complete guessing game but gives us a guide at this stage.

From my count there is 38 rookie priced players name within the best 26 (including emergencies) with 24 of them making the 22 and 11 of them making it on field.

Note that positions here are very iffy but thought it would be fun for an exercise. Here is the list for anyone interested;

1736306446483.png

There is 7 defender eligible players, 16 midfield eligible players, 1 ruck eligible player and 20 forward eligible player.

Early days but would make for some interesting variations in teams if we had to go midfield and forward heavy with the rookies.
 
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Saw that AFL.com.au posted an article on every team's best 22 and thought I'd go through and try to pick out all the rookie priced players in there.

Here is a link to the article: https://www.afl.com.au/news/1260580/your-clubs-best-22-in-2025-whos-in-whos-out-whos-new

Clearly the best 22 exercise is a complete guessing game but gives us a guide at this stage.

From my count there is 38 rookie priced players name within the best 26 (including emergencies) with 24 of them making the 22 and 11 of them making it on field.

Note that positions here are very iffy but thought it would be fun for an exercise. Here is the list for anyone interested;

View attachment 82502

There is 7 defender eligible players, 16 midfield eligible players, 1 ruck eligible player and 20 forward eligible player.

Early days but would make for some interesting variations in teams if we had to go midfield and forward heavy with the rookies.
Interesting exercise.

I was a little surprised almost every club had rookie / cheap players in their best 22 (even if it should be best 23 with a sub as well, but what would you expect from the AFL), it's only Collingwood, Hawthorn and the Bulldogs not on this list.
 
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Saw that AFL.com.au posted an article on every team's best 22 and thought I'd go through and try to pick out all the rookie priced players in there.

Here is a link to the article: https://www.afl.com.au/news/1260580/your-clubs-best-22-in-2025-whos-in-whos-out-whos-new

Clearly the best 22 exercise is a complete guessing game but gives us a guide at this stage.

From my count there is 38 rookie priced players name within the best 26 (including emergencies) with 24 of them making the 22 and 11 of them making it on field.

Note that positions here are very iffy but thought it would be fun for an exercise. Here is the list for anyone interested;

View attachment 82502

There is 7 defender eligible players, 16 midfield eligible players, 1 ruck eligible player and 20 forward eligible player.

Early days but would make for some interesting variations in teams if we had to go midfield and forward heavy with the rookies.
Thanks for this very useful list. You can add Sam Powell Pepper (Fwd) and Josh Gibcus (def) to this list.
One thing I find interesting about the best 22 lists this year is that it is more rookie heavy than previous years. I remember looking at this when it comes out each year and not seeing so many rookies. My early team drafts tended to show more mid prices and less rookies, and as rookies genuinely emerged and were picked, I would adjust my team accordingly. But this year feels like a strong crop of rookies. Already there feels like a few more could push their way in - El Hawli, K Smith, Spargo, Laurie, Woewodin, Allen (Coll)
There was a good point made about cash generation of the higher priced mid rookies if their role is perhaps more forward. I can see a world where I start a few options like Philippou etc in the middle to allow more forward rooks.
 
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Saw that AFL.com.au posted an article on every team's best 22 and thought I'd go through and try to pick out all the rookie priced players in there.

Here is a link to the article: https://www.afl.com.au/news/1260580/your-clubs-best-22-in-2025-whos-in-whos-out-whos-new

Clearly the best 22 exercise is a complete guessing game but gives us a guide at this stage.

From my count there is 38 rookie priced players name within the best 26 (including emergencies) with 24 of them making the 22 and 11 of them making it on field.

Note that positions here are very iffy but thought it would be fun for an exercise. Here is the list for anyone interested;

View attachment 82502

There is 7 defender eligible players, 16 midfield eligible players, 1 ruck eligible player and 20 forward eligible player.

Early days but would make for some interesting variations in teams if we had to go midfield and forward heavy with the rookies.
Thanks for posting that

You'd think El-Hawli would at least be an Emergency option.
 
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Thanks for this very useful list. You can add Sam Powell Pepper (Fwd) and Josh Gibcus (def) to this list.
One thing I find interesting about the best 22 lists this year is that it is more rookie heavy than previous years. I remember looking at this when it comes out each year and not seeing so many rookies. My early team drafts tended to show more mid prices and less rookies, and as rookies genuinely emerged and were picked, I would adjust my team accordingly. But this year feels like a strong crop of rookies. Already there feels like a few more could push their way in - El Hawli, K Smith, Spargo, Laurie, Woewodin, Allen (Coll)
There was a good point made about cash generation of the higher priced mid rookies if their role is perhaps more forward. I can see a world where I start a few options like Philippou etc in the middle to allow more forward rooks.
Like everyone, I'm nervous about all rookies who play predominately forward, particularly the KPF's, so I'll be looking at those forward eligible rookies who look to be getting some mid minutes. I could be wrong, but Curtain, Hewett and one other will be filling F5 - Bench along with Lynch.

There's a heap of Mid only rookies that will get DPP status at round 6, Lalor, FOS, Langford, Draper, Jagga?, Lombard could all be M/F with Lindsay and Smillie likely M/Def.
 
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Agree entirely on the 400k. You're effectively sacrificing trades to try and catch up on early points sacrificed.

Magic number is 4389 this year. So you're sacrificing 74.2 points per round until you deploy that money, most will use ~3 trades in rounds 2/3, so you probably can only really deploy those trades in round 4 or 5, and have to have done it by round 6 or you're no longer making back ground. If you don't use it until round 4 you'd be basically 300 points down, I just can't see a situation where 4 rounds extra information is going to get you that much better knowledge, the amount of guys you'd target at round 4 that end up reverting to the mean as opposed to sustaining is very high, think a Rowell last year as a classic example.

To me the starting team and maximising points from it is way too important to leave that many points on the board, especially when everyone is effectively getting their worst score wiped out each round on top of loopholes. You've got to be in it to win it and this feels like a strategy that handicaps you significantly with minimal advantage.

To me, a few weeks information isn't enough. Just looking at 4 guys I remember who had cracking starts to last year in Serong, Rowell, Heeney and Tom Green, you'd have got a 111.25, 98.74, 111.53 and 101.5 average from round 4 onwards if you jumped on them, now Heeney probably still a win price wise but given he was a round 0 flyer, you had a pretty good shot at getting him anyway. You'd probably have been dumping a Nic Martin, LDU, Brayshaw, Treloar or Dunkley type that started poorly to grab them and you'd have cost yourself significant points by doing it. It's just a really small sample size to be willingly sacrificing 75 points a week to gamble on.

Just think you're way better gambling on your starting team and using a boost to fix it, especially this year where the flex position makes the correction far easier. This year you can gamble on a 350k MID but you can bail out into any other position through the FLEX, you don't need to have DPP setup to try and create the contingency plan. It's definitely going to make midprice options more juicy.



Absolutely could be a good pick. I worry that more midfield time means more hack kicks. A lot of his better games in 2023 were where he actually played more forward and was kicking goals, for a bad kick he's surprisingly good at goal and at least points are only ineffective rather than clangers.

He can definitely brute force a score though and you're spot on with the midfield, they're paper thin there. Definitely on the watch list to see if he looks fit.

Injury history is more concerning then you're letting on though. Shoulders, concussions and back issues are all potentially recurring problems and when you've had multiple collision injuries, it does become a worrying trend in and of itself. The odd/even year injury pattern sure is something though. Missed 0 games across the last 3 "odd" years and 25 games across the last 3 even years, the DT/SC correlation to "being healthy" is also startling with 110/102 in odd and 88/87.5 in even.



The byes are a genuine nightmare this year.

Round 13 with Freo and Saints is great but they severely overlap in defense where there is genuinely 4 of the best options and then two rucks. Even mids with Steele and the three Freo boys. Saints also loaded in forward bargain bin. Even this bye is dangerous though because there are almost too many great options and it could become a problem, albeit the best round to have the problem.

Round 14 has only Richmond with genuine starting options, I guess also Mills from Sydney. Round 2 and 3 byes do open up the trade options but even then you're left with basically Daicos, Flanders and Heeney as top options across all positions. Maybe some of Anderson, Rowell, Blakey and similar can also put their hands up. Still can see this being a pretty light bye.

Round 15 has some options with Adelaide, WCE and Melbourne but basically there's Gawn, Rankine and Flynn and then you've just got a bunch of midfielders, all of whom have genuine questions on them. Hawthorn are similarly basically a forward and a horde of midfield questions and Sicily down back, who may well be cheap enough to start despite the bye but has a gazillion questions around role and how much a new backline impacts him.

Round 16 has maybe Stewart, Ashcroft and Coleman as starting options. I might be missing someone else but it's incredibly thin. The round 3/4 bye will open them up in upgrade season but it's pretty risky to be planning on getting guys from that bye, the bye issue leads to sub-optimal trade targets being used for bye balance or completely tilting the bye balance out of whack. This bye at least is highly avoidable, so targeting this bye has that bonus.

Then there is round 12... the unavoidable bye is the one with all 4 teams live at round 1, basically the best value and super premium option at every line and even some good rookies. It's the one bye that's dreadful to overload and yet it's by far the bye that makes sense to overload purely on players.
I agree with most of what you said about the 400k leftover. My argument is that 74 points lost are in reality less than that. If the 400k is the difference between a rookie and a premium. That means I'll have to play an extra rookie rather than say a premium averaging 110. That rookie probably scores 50 and with the flex position it can potentially help this strategy given rookies scores are volatile and if my 'extra rookie's flops but time, then I can benefit more than your average team does with the flex position. In reality it's not a simple equation so it's very tough to quantify how many points are lost.

My strategy is to get a team with very few of the must have top priced premiums instead going for value picks which means that (putting the cash in bank aside for a minute) I am trying my best to maximise team value and seek value in every position. If I can get the right cheaper premiums then regardless of cash leftover, I should be in a decent position.

This strategy of cheaper premiums carries big risk given if they flop you are behind on points and trades but if you get it right there is potential. What the money in the bank does is offers some insurance for those potential premiums that flop but if most of them do, you are in struggle street regardless of money leftover.

I'm not saying it will work at all but if you can hit the sweet spot you can make a team below the full salary cap that averages more than lots of teams that use the full cap.

I'm banking on being behind early but with trades I'm hoping to start closing the gap. It's high risk but I think avoiding picking all the top guns is the way to get ahead, at the end of the day I'll go with a team I like and see if I can leave 300k+

Doubt it works but it's not a simple equation of losing 75points per week and having to overcome that. It can go wrong in many ways but it's not as simple as losing 'x' points early...I'm also not saying that that is your only point.

It can and probably will go wrong but it's not necessarily because of the 400k in the bank, it will be my combination of selections that let me down. If I get cold feet I will end up using some of that cash in the bank.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts. :)
 
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This table has been valuable in showing me the headache I'll have come Round 12 with 5 starters out and not owning Bont or JHF, who I'll have to look to get in after the round.

It's also highlighted to me how important having Daicos and Flanders will be for balance throughout the rest of the byes.

Finally, Nic Martin & Merrett may be early upgrade targets after their first bye to again help with balance throughout the bye rounds.
After reading this comment I came to the realisation that I didn’t have any Gold Coast or GWS players in my side… Now I have no GWS players and Flanders in my team & boy does it feel good :cool:

I’d love to start Naicos as well but Mills, Coleman and Smith who also have a bye in round three are locked into my side & I feel as though starting all four could be overkill.

For what it’s worth, my current midfield is:
Bont, Butters, Petracca, Oliver & Rookies :LOL:
 
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After reading this comment I came to the realisation that I didn’t have any Gold Coast or GWS players in my side… Now I have no GWS players and Flanders in my team & boy does it feel good :cool:

I’d love to start Naicos as well but Mills, Coleman and Smith who also have a bye in round three are locked into my side & I feel as though starting all four could be overkill.

For what it’s worth, my current midfield is:
Bont, Butters, Petracca, Oliver & Rookies :LOL:
Big chance that Coleman misses a couple of the early games, would make him an ideal target coming off his early bye. Would that then make Naicos more attractive?

I'm only asking as that is what I'm thinking of doing.
 
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