General Discussion

[benderiffic]

So I was having a chat with my footy coach after our game last weekend and the topic of Trent Cotchin got brought up. Now, this is a great site with a lot of varying opinions, so I thought I would ask the question here. I hope none of our Richmond supporters take this the wrong way.

Where do you think Cotchin ranks in the top midfielders in the competition? He does not believe he is in the top 20!!! Players obviously ahead of him Ablett, Swan, Pendles, Rockliff, Watson, JPK, McVeigh, Jack, Mitchell, Boak etc and we haven't even touched on the blokes out west in purple!

I thought he was out of his mind when he first mentioned it considering he almost won a brownlow a couple of years ago, but when you look at it, I think he may just be right.

Go!

 

[IDIG]

Final score 8 - 12
Great game!

Ripper of a game!

 

[IDIG]

So I was having a chat with my footy coach after our game last weekend and the topic of Trent Cotchin got brought up. Now, this is a great site with a lot of varying opinions, so I thought I would ask the question here. I hope none of our Richmond supporters take this the wrong way.

Where do you think Cotchin ranks in the top midfielders in the competition? He does not believe he is in the top 20!!! Players obviously ahead of him Ablett, Swan, Pendles, Rockliff, Watson, JPK, McVeigh, Jack, Mitchell, Boak etc and we haven't even touched on the blokes out west in purple!

I thought he was out of his mind when he first mentioned it considering he almost won a brownlow a couple of years ago, but when you look at it, I think he may just be right.

Go!

I reckon it's a combination of two things with Cotch. Expectations have been set so high after that brownlow year and Richmond are a youngish and inconsistent side.

He needs to kick more goals and win more games off his own boot like the other premier midfielders who do it 5-10 times a year (if not more!).

I'd have him in the top 20 mids but at the back end of it. When he's on though, he can be very damaging.

 

[Athomas]

So I was having a chat with my footy coach after our game last weekend and the topic of Trent Cotchin got brought up. Now, this is a great site with a lot of varying opinions, so I thought I would ask the question here. I hope none of our Richmond supporters take this the wrong way.

Where do you think Cotchin ranks in the top midfielders in the competition? He does not believe he is in the top 20!!! Players obviously ahead of him Ablett, Swan, Pendles, Rockliff, Watson, JPK, McVeigh, Jack, Mitchell, Boak etc and we haven't even touched on the blokes out west in purple!

I thought he was out of his mind when he first mentioned it considering he almost won a brownlow a couple of years ago, but when you look at it, I think he may just be right.

Go!

Not the best midfielder at his club which makes it hard to be in the top 20 of the comp.

(Play nice Richmond fans! )

 

[DoggyODFL]

Not the best midfielder at his club which makes it hard to be in the top 20 of the comp.

(Play nice Richmond fans! )

It probably becomes a bit of a roadblock in terms on midfielders in that top 15-25 or even 30 range (where Cotchin probably fits right now) which would make it easy enough to list 20 top end midfielders with Cotchin not one being one of them.

 

[Nathan]

It probably becomes a bit of a roadblock in terms on midfielders in that top 15-25 or even 30 range (where Cotchin probably fits right now) which would make it easy enough to list 20 top end midfielders with Cotchin not one being one of them.

Personally think he would be back end of top 50 mids.

 

[IDIG]

Personally think he would be back end of top 50 mids.

Wow! That works out to be about 2-3 midfielders per team rated higher than him lol

Anyway, it's fair to say he's out of the form at the moment but if we rated players off form we'd have Swan/Griffen, etc in a similar position and they'd be top 10-20 midfielders for most (i think )

 

[anfa18]

So I was having a chat with my footy coach after our game last weekend and the topic of Trent Cotchin got brought up. Now, this is a great site with a lot of varying opinions, so I thought I would ask the question here. I hope none of our Richmond supporters take this the wrong way.

Where do you think Cotchin ranks in the top midfielders in the competition? He does not believe he is in the top 20!!! Players obviously ahead of him Ablett, Swan, Pendles, Rockliff, Watson, JPK, McVeigh, Jack, Mitchell, Boak etc and we haven't even touched on the blokes out west in purple!

I thought he was out of his mind when he first mentioned it considering he almost won a brownlow a couple of years ago, but when you look at it, I think he may just be right.

Go!

Personally think he's in the top 50 mids so far this year, when playing at his best he's definitely top 20. This year he really has struggled for any sort of consistency in a struggling team. I agree with all those players you mentioned being above him this year, add in to the mix Stevie J, Selwood, Beams, Fyfe, Libba, Dal Santo, Harvey, Sloane, Ward, Montagna and a list of others who have had better 2014s... So far. I do think he can bounce back, whether or not it is this year or next remains to be seen.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I'd have him in the top 20 mids but at the back end of it. When he's on though, he can be very damaging.

Yeah definitely has the potential to go top 20 mids but would have to disagree that he can be damaging. Seems to be one of those players that accumulates but doesn't impose himself on the match like Watson, Pendles, Danger, Ablett, Stevie J, Selwood and Fyfe do. Kicking goals is a lot to to with that being "ranked 11th in scoreboard impact last year for his club". I beleive he gets so many cheap kicks from handball receives and short uncontested marks. Most of his kicks are also pretty short and not that damaging with an "efficiency of 39% while under pressure". A far cry from his 2012 form where "32% of his clearances resulted in tiger goals! the highest of the top 22 clearance players" that year.
Writing this I have no idea why I picked him, but I was drawn to the fact he is probably the most Ablett like player in the AFL, unfortunately not anywhere near that level.

Quoting all of this from the AFL Prospectus.

 

[johno686]

Personally think he would be back end of top 50 mids.

you always make me smile

 

[IDIG]

Yeah definitely has the potential to go top 20 mids but would have to disagree that he can be damaging. Seems to be one of those players that accumulates but doesn't impose himself on the match like Watson, Pendles, Danger, Ablett, Stevie J, Selwood and Fyfe do. Kicking goals is a lot to to with that being ranked 11th in scoreboard impact last year for his club. I beleive he gets so many cheap kicks from handball receives and short uncontested marks. Most of his kicks are also pretty short and not that damaging with an "efficiency of 39% while under pressure". A far cry from his 2012 form where "32% of his clearances resulted in tiger goals! the highest of the top 22 clearance players" that year.
Writing this I have no idea why I picked him, but I was drawn to the fact he is probably the most Ablett like player in the AFL, unfortunately not anywhere near that level.

Quoting all of this from the AFL Prospectus.

Yeah damaging was probably the wrong word come to think of it. His clearance work is what always sticks in my mind and what i always notice as a non owner. Interesting stats though, i haven't watched him as closely as (burnt) owners lol and only brought him in two weeks ago so hoping he returns to his 2012 form as well...or i might just join the never again crew haha

 

[Nathan]

Wow! That works out to be about 2-3 midfielders per team rated higher than him lol

Anyway, it's fair to say he's out of the form at the moment but if we rated players off form we'd have Swan/Griffen, etc in a similar position and they'd be top 10-20 midfielders for most (i think )

you always make me smile

Had a quick skim in my brain this morning going through each team and Cotchin was about 35/36 for me.

 

[Tamuhawk]

Personally think he would be back end of top 50 mids.

There is some merit to that. If we looked at this supercoach wise: Trent Cotchin is currently 48th on averages of the players at the start of Round 11. Top 50 averages. (Note Players have played 5+ games and also included DPP's, therefore no rucks):

1. Ablett 143
2. Pendlebury 132
3. JP Kennedy 123.67
4. Beams 120.67
5. Fyfe 120
6. Rockliff 119.71
7. Selwood 119.11
8. Johnson 116.12
9. Liberatore 116.11
10. Dangerfield 115.56
11. Boyd 114.56
12. Dal Santo 114.11
13. Watson 113.44
14. Treloar 111.5
15. Ward 110.11
16. Sloane 109
17. Montagna 109
18. Murphy 108.78
19. N Jones 108.44
20. K Jack 108.12

21. Gray 107.89
22. Bartel 107.89
23. Swallow 107.89
24. Prestia 107.11
25. McVeigh 106.44
26. Barlow 106.2
27. Harvey 106.11
28. Priddis 105.67
29. Sidebottom 105.67
30. Gibbs 105.44
31. Ebert 105.33
32. Stokes 105.12
33. Hayes 105.12
34. Hannebery 104.78
35. Heppell 104.44
36. Parker 104.22
37. Wines 104.22
38. Matt Thomas 103.83
39. Boak 103.67
40. O'Meara 103.11
41. Mundy 103.11
42. Burgoyne 103
43. Goddard 102.57
44. Redden 102.22
45. Macrae 101.78
46. Curnow 101.4
47. Deledio 101.2
48. Trent Cotchin 101.11
49. Douglas 99.67
50. Duncan 99.44

Daniel Jackson 96.43 (but if you take out his injury effected sub game... his average bumps up to 109.5)
Swan 96
Griffen 93.25

As we can see Trent Cotchin is at the back end of the Top 50 which amazes me. At the start of the year I had him pegged in Top 10 for the year and was planning on bringing him in at round 9. His scores pre-bye were 118, 84, 125, 65, 134, 84, 95. Looking at those scores, he had only hit the ton 3/7 times which for me I saw as a fail. So I had to re-assess. I saw that the tigers were playing Melb & GWS, but told myself I would just have to forgoe those big 2 rounds and think long-term as I didn't think Cotchin could score a 110+ from that point onwards. He then went on to score 112 & 93. I had estimated he would score much bigger in round 9 & 10 being against Melb & GWS. Also note that 3 of Cotchin's teammates: Daniel Jackson 109.5 (taking out his injury-effected game), Matt Thomas 103.83 & Brett Deledio 101.2 have all been averaging above him which currently makes him the 4th best midfielder at Tigerland. I am glad I don't currently have him in my team. Only reason I can see is that the tigers struggling to win games has effected Cotchin scores significantly. Let's hope the tigers can win more games so Cotchin's scores get his score up into Top 20 midfielders by the end of the year.

Wow! That works out to be about 2-3 midfielders per team rated higher than him lol

Anyway, it's fair to say he's out of the form at the moment but if we rated players off form we'd have Swan/Griffen, etc in a similar position and they'd be top 10-20 midfielders for most (i think )

With Swan, I just think he has been spending a bit too much time forward... could it be that father time has caught up with swanny? I really hope not especially for those who have him. Swan is a champion and I hope he comes back strong in the back end of 2014. The pies draw does open up quite a bit now.

We all know Griffen had a back problem preseason and I believe he has started to gain some match fitness and has picked up some form evident in his last two games with scores of 111 & 132. His finals draw does look extremely tasty. I would strongly consider Griffen for those looking for a POD, currently in 4.69% of teams.

 

[IDIG]

Great post Tam and love the use of sc averages as an indicator of performance but i'm weary of putting too much focus on 10 rounds worth of sc scores when ranking players. I guess it depends what we're ranking Cotchin on? if it's for the year, career, recent period, etc.

 

[Nathan]

Great post Tam and love the use of sc averages as an indicator of performance but i'm weary of putting too much focus on 10 rounds worth of sc scores when ranking players. I guess it depends what we're ranking Cotchin on? if it's for the year, career, recent period, etc.

I was working on his current form

 

[Tamuhawk]

Great post Tam and love the use of sc averages as an indicator of performance but i'm weary of putting too much focus on 10 rounds worth of sc scores when ranking players. I guess it depends what we're ranking Cotchin on? if it's for the year, career, recent period, etc.

I was working on his current form

Thanks IDIG

Yeah I should have put more emphasis on current form as Nathan pointed out. I was purely just basing it on the games played so far this year. I still do believe Cotchin can get back into the Top 20 for this year provided the tigers can get the wins. Career wise, I'll prob rank him only after he retires haha seeing as he's probably got another good 10 years in him.

 

[IDIG]

I was working on his current form

Yeah I thought that might’ve been the case. Tbh I probably wouldn’t have him too far ahead (if at all) this year either. Has definitely struggled and well below what he is capable of.

Thanks IDIG
Yeah I should have put more emphasis on current form as Nathan pointed out. I was purely just basing it on the games played so far this year. I still do believe Cotchin can get back into the Top 20 for this year provided the tigers can get the wins. Career wise, I'll prob rank him only after he retires haha seeing as he's probably got another good 10 years in him.

Looking through that list again, it’s quite amazing to think Swan/Griffen aren’t in the top 50 at the half way stage of the year, although the role/health factors are definitely a consideration.
What’s also interesting is that top of the table Port’s highest ranked player is not even in the top 20 (or a pure midfielder!). I wonder if they will eventually become a fantasy powerhouse like Collingwood and Geelong of yesteryear

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Zac Obrien has been upgraded by Brisbane this week.
Has averaged 29 disposals, 4 tackles and six marks and 108 DT points this year.
Listed as a mid at 102k. (No swing eligibility)

 

[Demolished]

Thoughts on Watson? Priced at 551K, averaging 113.4. The only reason I don't want him, is his ability to play forward for large time periods at times.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

Thoughts on Watson? Priced at 551K, averaging 113.4. The only reason I don't want him, is his ability to play forward for large time periods at times.

Gun, Gun, Gun. Has scored well this year by not doing too much (for his standards). Kicks goals and I am expecting a 115-118 average for the remainder of the year. Would not be worried about him playing large periods of time forward. Bellchambers is back which means another big man up forward and our second tier midfeilders behind Jobe/Heppel/Goddard are pretty average with the likes of Melksham/Zaharakis/Myers/Stanton/Merret.

However Id honestly splash cash on a Fyfe is you don't have him. Averaging 120, with a phenomenal draw ahead as a Rowsus acclaimed FTB. Basically untaggable I would do anything to get this guy in my team.

I'll be choosing between Fyfe and a discounted Stevie J as my last upgrade leaving me with a Pendless midfeild (Huge Risk) if I decide to keep Cotchin.