2014: Retirements, Delistings and Trade Rumours

[Creeker]

Happy to get Giles and Coons to the Bombers can see our round 1 side (if fit and no asada)

Def- Baguley Hooker Gwilt
Hibberd Hurley Dempsey

Mids- Stanton Watson Zaharakis
Goddard Giles Heppell

Fwds- Chapman Carlisle Cooney
Bellchambers Daniher Kommer

Bench - Z.Merrett Hocking Myers Colyer

was actually harder then i thought to pick a side guys like fletch, howlett & Winderlich missing out

How about the Marty (party) Gleeson. Will be a tough team to break into Maso !

 

[Maso]

How about the Marty (party) Gleeson. Will be a tough team to break into Maso !

lol i know right

 

[Rowsus]

Ridiculous trade by the Bulldogs. On what they're giving away it is like Boyd is guaranteed to be a "Buddy" or NRoo. He's not!
They were like the guy at the carnival that keeps paying $5 for 3 balls, and ends up paying $40 for a $20 teddy bear!
I think they got too focussed on the prize, and forgot to keep track of the price!

The logic to your post is all there and correct.


The way I see Boyd is we have an up and down straight draw after already having the 2nd highest pair on the table, and also have a flush draw. There are about 15 cards left in the deck to make our hand. GWS have gone all in and we have called with still an ok sized stack to work from if the card does not drop lol.

It's a pretty fair analogy.
I will compare it to Tiger Woods first contract with Nike in 1996.
Just before the 19yo Woods turned professional he was offered a 5 year, $40 million contract by Nike.
At the time everyone ridiculed Nike. Woods was an amateur with some commercial value, but $40 million for 5 years for someone who hadn't played one pro-tournament was considered ridiculously excessive. $1 million a year for 2 or 3 years for an amateur was considered "high risk" back then.
Nike responded to all the ridicule and finger pointing with something along the lines of "Hey, we know we payed overs, but if he becomes the player we think he will, we have got him for a steal!". No one in the media swallowed that for a moment.
Flash forward 5 years to 2001. Woods has won 25 professional tournaments including 5 majors. Woods next contract with Nike was signed for $100 million for 5 years, making him the highest paid sponsored player in the history of all professional sports. No one said Nike paid overs in that contract.
In retrospect, Nike's first contract was a bargain! Looking forward from 1996 it was a ridiculous amount for an unknown commodity. Looking back from 2001 it was considered one of the biggest bargains of sports branding, ever! Nike had managed to secure the number 1 player in the world, and moved it's golf equipment and sportswear business from comparatively insignificant to the top companies, to being one of, if not the top company in golf!
I begrudge the Bulldogs and their supporters nothing, and I hope when Boyd is 25, they will look back on this trade and contract and say "Everyone said we went too far, and paid him too much. Now they're all wishing they'd had the guts to do it too!"
Good luck Boyd, and Bulldogs. I hope it turns out to be another Tiger Woods story (minus the sex scandals!)


addendum - my favourite Tiger Woods quote goes back to 1995. John Daly had just won the British Open, and Tiger was starting to get people talking with his feats as an amateur. Daly was asked "What do you think of Tiger Woods?" to which he responded. "I've never played there, but I have heard it is a helluva golf course!"

 

[freowho]

My take on all this overs talk is well derrrrrr lol. How else do you get something in high demand? Very rare to get unders like Brisbane and christensen. Even in your luke ball scenario you get unders by using the PSD but then probably go overs in the contract.

How many soccer players are actually worth 100 million?

We pay overs for a house
We pay overs for a car
We pay overs for a pie and coke at etihad
We pay overs for everything.

I personally dont see it as overs on the trade table. It's overs on the contract. If he turns out as good as EVERY expert thinks, it will only be overs for a year or two of his contract. BUT Carlton and St Kilda were preparing for an overs move next season too.

As for the trade itself, Griffen weakened our position by stating it was move or retire. Cameron and GWS knew this. Meaning his value to us was 0. Essentially it cost us pick 6 to get last seasons #1 pick and thats it. Because Griffen is basically a retired player talked out of retirement.

Tom Boyd is a big risk at that price but he looks like a natural leader with a bit of swagger. I don't think the doggies have had a great leader for some time. Nothing against the nice blokes like Matthew Boyd, Brad Johnson, Chris Grant etc but I want my football captain to think his team is the best on the planet like Ted Whitten, John Nicholls, Wayne Carey, Jonathon Brown, Luke Hodge.
One of Malthouse's first comments when he got to Carlton was how quiet the group was.
I also think the dogs only have themselves to blame for losing Griffin. A good coaching group should know their players well enough to work out if they can handle the captaincy or not.

 

[Mr Young]

Final trade was an exchange of picks:

Cats get 10 and 47
Ade gets 14 and 35

Suggests to me Adelaide will probably draft a South Australian kid at 14 that they are confident that Geelong, Eagles, Richmond and Fremantle won't pick up in the few picks now before them.

I agree... Phil Walsh presser "the player they want at that pick will still be there at 14" (referring to an assurance from the recruiting team) source: the very very last sentence here: https://audioboom.com/boos/2567379-phil-walsh-press-conference-16-10-14#t=5m40s

 

[Nathan]

In terms of the bulldogs paying overs for Boyd what player he becomes is irrelevant, surely they could have got him cheaper and on a shorter contract.

 

[OzRulesFootball]

Glad Cooney gone to Danks Dons. Was scared the other week he end up with us.

 

[BigRuss]

Huh, Griff is now a Giant...

Welcome to Team PC 2015 Mr C Ward!!

And with those words young Libba slides into SC irrelevancy. Ward a lock for me too next year, scary midfield if Mummy can stay fit.

 

[Zim^zuM]

In terms of the bulldogs paying overs for Boyd what player he becomes is irrelevant, surely they could have got him cheaper and on a shorter contract.

IMO thats and even bigger risk than the one we have taken. Firstly he would be vulnerable to being lured away very quickly. Carlton and st kilda were preparing massive offers. Meaning if we waited a year we could have easily missed out or paid more. We have paid him market value IMO because he would have gotten a massive deal from the blues. They are filthy as atm.

A massive contract means it will be really hard to poach him. Its hard to go beyond a million a season on a player. Amd extra few 100k wont tempt him. When it comes to resigning he will be greatful to us and less likely to expore FA.

Of course there is the risk we pay 7 million to a dud. But you need to trust the research. He is so higly rated for a reason. He was #1 for a reason.

If he flops what do we lose? Front ended contract means ot wont affect later on. We dont have enough guns to use our cap anyways. The money we spend now will be returned through equalisation one way or another. And if it is really that bad I have no doubt Gordon himself will square the books. You dont get the best without paying overs.

Also to add lol. This is the way I see it.

Ryan Griffen retired.
We traded pick 6 for Boyd.
Cameron/Ward lured him out of retirement.

Griffen IMO did not hold the value of pick 7. He was set to retire. So we done well in only losing pick 6.

 

[DeliciousJedi]

Of course the Boyd trade was ridiculous. Saying it is ridiculous doesn't rationalise it into something that is ok.

If they couldn't have gotten him without trading pick 6 and a captain/all-australian away then ok, but a 7-year multi-million dollar deal, where the first year is at base price (so how inflated would the other 6 years be...) is just wrong, sheer wrong for a player that HAS NOT been in the AFL for even a year. It's a horrible deal which will have ramifications league-wide, it's unprecedented.

This myth about needing a #1 draft pick KPF to win grand finals is preposterous. Franklin himself was #5 (same selection Grant was taken at), Swans won in 2012 with Sam Reid ***. Cam Mooney was taken when in the draft? The point is a top KPF isn't not the crux it is made out to be, nor if it is a problem, should a team be unable to draft a good one. This year for example anyone from McCartin, Wright, McKenzie, Keitel, Finlayson, Hammelman could all end up as a leading key forward for whomever drafts and develops them.

Boyd's not even a Scully-type. He's now getting paid more money than a Cloke, Roughead, Tippett, Walker, Hawkins, JRoo, Kennedy...all for potential, all for leaving the club he was drafted to so soon.

As for Bulldogs having the money to spend, well I'm shocked at the limited creativity. Offer the cheque-book to 3-4 other youngsters with that sort of money, improve the contracts of current players who deserve it (what Hawks did after Buddy).

How would you feel being a player at an already destabilised club knowing the the board/coaches thought you and your peers didn't rate good enough to get a better slice of the salary cap that they need to throw money around on 1 player and two others not even at the club, or that you now have a peer that's done nothing and is earning more money than anyone ever did at his age?

I like the Doggies list and youngsters coming through, but that doesn't mean in any way I like this trade and contract.

 

[Nathan]

IMO thats and even bigger risk than the one we have taken. Firstly he would be vulnerable to being lured away very quickly. Carlton and st kilda were preparing massive offers. Meaning if we waited a year we could have easily missed out or paid more. We have paid him market value IMO because he would have gotten a massive deal from the blues. They are filthy as atm.

A massive contract means it will be really hard to poach him. Its hard to go beyond a million a season on a player. Amd extra few 100k wont tempt him. When it comes to resigning he will be greatful to us and less likely to expore FA.

Of course there is the risk we pay 7 million to a dud. But you need to trust the research. He is so higly rated for a reason. He was #1 for a reason.

If he flops what do we lose? Front ended contract means ot wont affect later on. We dont have enough guns to use our cap anyways. The money we spend now will be returned through equalisation one way or another. And if it is really that bad I have no doubt Gordon himself will square the books. You dont get the best without paying overs.

Also to add lol. This is the way I see it.

Ryan Griffen retired.
We traded pick 6 for Boyd.
Cameron/Ward lured him out of retirement.

Griffen IMO did not hold the value of pick 7. He was set to retire. So we done well in only losing pick 6.

He would not have been poached if he'd signed a 3-4 year contract

 

[Zim^zuM]

He would not have been poached if he'd signed a 3-4 year contract

If he is peforming of course he would have. Also what people forget is there is a minimum spend on your salary cap. We lost Griffen, gia, jones, tutt, higgins and whoever else. That is huge to fill back to minimum. Hence a front loaded contract and paying wages for 2 players at other clubs.

I find it odd that offering lonergan 1.5 million to fill no purpose got hardly any negative comments in the media.

For the last 20 years its always been. The dogs lack a key fwd. If they had one they would have flags etc. Year after year the same comments. Same thing this year. They need a fwd. Repeat repeat. We go and get the most highly rated fwd while we have ridiculous cap room and get slammed lol. Dont need key fwds to win flags lol.

 

[Zim^zuM]

At least when he retires we wont have to still pay him 1 million a year for 5 more years lol

 

[OzRulesFootball]

Must say pretty fascinated by the controversy it seems to stir up. As a Carlton supporter that was about 70% certain Boyd would have gone to Carlton in 2016 I say well played Doggies. Whilst I completely agree a premiership side does not need some champion key forward to win a premiership. A club with no target at all getting their man when opportunity presented itself have signed a guy up for 7 years and chances are he will be very very good for them and Dogs can build forward line around him to build a team to get them where they want to go

 

[DeliciousJedi]

Boyd is on peanuts first year (his second year) as per the AFLPA CBA that dictates all salaries for draftees.

 

[OzRulesFootball]

Keep in mind Jaksch is not established as a key position player but to only lose 10 or so spots down in draft it seems an ok deal. Hopefully he becomes a quality key defender or key forward. We need a least 2 more so one of them might end up handy trade in long term. Know very little about the other guy.

Mark Whiley could very well be the Anthony Miles of 2015. Won the NEAFL Player of the Year in 2013. He's a tough inside midfielder at around 190cms and great around the stoppages. Has also tagged some big names and performed very admirably. He'll provide much needed midfield depth. "He is a player that was being sought for a trade in his own right and so while he is an add-on to the Jaksch deal he is more than an irrelevant "steak knives" sweetener to getting the other deal done".

Thanks for that mate, was wondering who this Whiley kid was myself.
Well explained!

Yeah, thanks again. Erich. I just had a look at video footage of him. Actually very impressed with what I saw

I don't expect immediate week in, week out and awesome output from Jaksch next year, but the underlying talent is there and we needed someone else on the list that truly allows us to be flexible with Henderson going forward without sacrificing quality at either end. I'm optimistic Jaksch won't be a bust for the club, great long kick and was spoiling balls against Henderson all game when they beat us this year. Hopefully he can take a great contested mark - it's one thing we strongly value so I'm assuming he has it in him.

Yeah, having seen his kicking in the game against us, it stood out then he was a good kick. But now looking back at video footage of his contested marking ability and spoiling I'm even more excited that we got him for only a few spots later in draft. He looks the goods what you want in key position player and we avoid having to wait for him to develop up in size for 2 or 3 years. He'll be ready for senior footy next season for sure.

I noticed Whiley in their game against Collingwood this year - looks like we really have someone to work with there. If he develops as rapidly away from GWS as Miles, we really have done well in the trade.

Oh, I basically not even seen him play before now. I caught the video highlights of his work in midfield. I must admit surprised how much he impressed me. Very impressed we got 3 players we can work with straight away for giving up very little. I probably knew more about Tutt. I actually drafted him myself in FDL earlier this season in one of our mini-drafts when wanting another forward. I like his ability to snag a goal and got a bit of toe too. We do not have Tutt yet but the plan I heard is to pass on one of our later picks in National Draft and pick him up in Pre-Season Draft. Think it is 95% going to happen so really happy about that. All these guys are also in age group we need so happy with our trading. We lost an immediate quality contested mark in Waite with no compensation which was horrible considering he is way more talented than Frawley or Higgins that clubs got compensated for losing. However, we got Jaksch which damn happy about for next season and many years to come. We also got another key position player in Liam Jones for not much but I'm less confident in him. However, he is an ok kick for goal and hopefully he learns how to improve his marking being around the likes of Casboult, Henderson, Rowe and Jaksch at training.

Hopefully with our first two picks in National Draft we aim for the young midfield types we need to get too. We actually seemed to have traded smartly two seasons in a row. Almost shocked. We did not trade Mitch Robinson or Kane Lucas. Given that I think we need to consider keeping Robinson now. He did stuff up but hopefully learned a lesson. He is still AFL relevant and got too much going for him to be not playing at AFL level. We would be silly to let another club get him for nothing. Hopefully the club and him having a chat in coming days and they work out a way to go forward together and not de-list him. I do however think Lucas is not worth holding onto. If another club want to pick him up for nothing as a de-listed free agent then good luck to them.

 

[Zim^zuM]

There is whispers (no one I know) (someone claiming to be mates with boyds brother) That Boyd and Kelly are best mates. And he will also be making a move at the end of his contract.

hehe hope this sort of stuff happens

 

[IDIG]

We'll have Robbo

No direction home? The players who may still switch clubs

FOR THOSE players who failed to find a new home during the NAB AFL Trade Period, there are still multiple chances left to continue their careers in 2015.

From November 1-12, players who have been cut adrift can be signed by the club of their choice in the first delisted free agent window.

There is a second window from November 14-19 and a third from November 28 to December 1, immediately after the 2014 NAB AFL Draft.

The traditional way for players to find a new home – in the era before free agency – was via the NAB AFL Pre-Season Draft, which this year will be held electronically on Wednesday, December 3.

Only those clubs with list space remaining can take part in the pre-season draft, with Jed Lamb the only player selected (by GWS) in last year's PSD.

This year's crop of hopefuls would be expected to find their way to new clubs as delisted free agents if they attract interest.

There are a number of players, however, who may head to the pre-season draft after trade negotiations between clubs proved fruitless.

Tim Membrey
The Sydney Swans forward is guaranteed to make his way to St Kilda, most likely through the PSD, after a trade couldn't be arranged. The Swans' first live selection in the draft is pick No.39, so St Kilda needed to offer a pick higher than that to immediately land Membrey.

Taylor Hunt
Squeezed out at Geelong, a trade couldn't be orchestrated for the run-with midfielder once it was telegraphed that he would be available as a delisted free agent. It is unclear whether he will find another home after 63 matches with the Cats.

Mitch Robinson
Another player who was clearly not going to be at his club in 2015, making him a delisted free agent prospect from early in the trade period. Clubs weren't going to hand over compensation to Carlton once they knew they could secure Robinson for free. That being said, there has been little interest in the midfielder.

Kane Lucas
Labelled a wanted player by Carlton early in the trade period, the out-of-favour midfielder is now without a guaranteed home for 2015. Lucas explored opportunities and was linked to both WA clubs, but they weren't prepared to trade for him. Could find a new home as a delisted free agent if the Blues let him go.

George Burbury
The Geelong forward attracted little interest in the trade period after briefly being linked to West Coast early in the piece. Managed just seven games with the Cats, suffering a broken jaw during the 2014 NAB Cup and a serious hamstring injury early in the season.

Elliott Kavanagh
Put himself on the trade table by declaring he would like to explore other opportunities after a lack of exposure in three seasons with the Bombers. Contracted for 2015, he is now likely to stay with Essendon after a lack of offers came his way.

Kieran Harper
The 22-year-old was open to a trade after struggling with injury and form over the past two seasons. He met with the Western Bulldogs and was part of the proposed trade that would have sent Adam Cooney to Arden Street. That didn't eventuate, however, and he may well remain at the Roos.

Jason Tutt
The speedster flagged his intention to leave the Western Bulldogs in the lead-up to the trade period but Thursday's 2pm deadline passed without any movement. Carlton is confident it can secure the 23-year-old via the pre-season draft.

Daniel Gorringe
The young ruckman requested a trade home to South Australia and nominated Port Adelaide as his preferred club, but he will remain at Gold Coast after a trade couldn't be arranged. The Power's ability to secure Paddy Ryder from Essendon effectively ended their chances of trading for Gorringe, who has been described by the Suns as a required player for 2015.
The views in this article are those of the au

 

[Grant]

Must say pretty fascinated by the controversy it seems to stir up. As a Carlton supporter that was about 70% certain Boyd would have gone to Carlton in 2016 I say well played Doggies. Whilst I completely agree a premiership side does not need some champion key forward to win a premiership. A club with no target at all getting their man when opportunity presented itself have signed a guy up for 7 years and chances are he will be very very good for them and Dogs can build forward line around him to build a team to get them where they want to go

Andrew McKay basically indicated he thought this would happen and was shocked the Bulldogs got him. Said Boyd was a huge Carlton fan and was given a corporate box to watch a few games last year.

 

[PC]

Some talk to Robbo may be headed to the Hawks next season - I am unsure on that idea atm...