Analysis SuperCoach Scoring Explained, Observations & Complaints On Scoring

Joined
6 May 2013
Messages
1,244
Likes
245
AFL Club
Carlton
But was the quarter worth 53 points overall? Absolutely IMO.
Above and beyond Phil.
End of conversation.
Lock this thread now...
Make a note to myself : Don't ever blindly challenge Philzsay unless I'm pretty sure of what I'm talking about, or risk being made to look a little silly.
Yoda has spoken!

(translated from "53 points overall was the quarter worth? Yes. Yesss. You will be. You will be. Your father, he is")
 
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
4,890
Likes
11,150
AFL Club
West Coast
Yoda has spoken!

(translated from "53 points overall was the quarter worth? Yes. Yesss. You will be. You will be. Your father, he is")
Will consider this closed when I see Darth Vader cross to the light side - I await that response.
 
Joined
5 Apr 2012
Messages
434
Likes
349
AFL Club
Geelong
OK I have just gone through the tape, pausing, rewinding etc to make sure I got everything. Here are all of the pieces of play in the third quarter that Luke Dahlhaus was involved in that could be picked up on TV. I have placed a line gab between each separate piece of play:


Defensive pressure act.

Uncontested possession
Effective handball
Score assist

Handball receive
Effective handball

Handball receive
Immediately tackled, free paid against for holding the ball

Tap received from ruckman at centre bounce
Kick to a contest.
(Maybe scoring chain bonus? Not sure if would be considered part of a scoring chain as North player touched it before Doggies got a goal from forward movement).

Had hand on North player as he received ball, not sure if it would count as a defensive pressure act, personally I'd say no.

Again, sad hand on North player as he received ball, not sure if it would count as a defensive pressure act, personally I'd say no.

Contested possession
Effective Handball

Contested possession of ball, immediately tackled as grabbing ball, ball up.

Again, contested possession of ball, immediately tackled as grabbing ball, ball up.

Handball receive
Effective long distance (40m+) kick.

Defensive pressure act

Handball receive
Kick to a contest

Contested ball possession
Effective handball
Score assist.

Ball received from punch, possession
Effective handball
Part of a scoring chain

Contested possession
Effective handball
Score assist.

Contested possession
Effective kick
Goal
Scaling for putting the Dogs into the lead.

Touch of ball as it ran out of bounds


So in summary Dahlhaus was involved in the play 18 times during the third quarter, including:
1 Goal (Which gave them the lead)
3 Score assists, plus another piece of play which was part of a scoring chain (and a maybe on a second scoring chain)
6 Contested possessions of the ball
7 Uncontested possession of ball
4 Effective kicks
6 Effective handballs.
1 free against
2 defensive pressure acts, 2 more acts unlikely but may be considered defensive pressure acts.
Another touch of the ball.

Watching the replay specifically looking out for him made me appreciate what a brilliant quarter he had. He was constantly involved in the play, only the five odd minutes he was on the bench in the middle of the quarter was he not involved. Now we can't exactly say what each individual piece of play was worth in terms of SC points, but was the quarter worth 53 points overall? Absolutely IMO.
Stirling work by Phil.

Perhaps someone can answer this for me, but CD do this in real time (no replays), and so it seems to me that each game must be scored by the one person in the moment or there will be conflicts to be sorted out and resolved..Technology will help but a lot of it will still fall back to an individual's training, judgement and competence on the day. So there will inevitably be differences of opinion coming into the ranking because it involves humans. The speed with which they finalise the scores means there is no chance for review or correcting mistakes.

Finally, it seems to me useful to remember that CD is not only part of the AFL behemoth but ultimately depend on a group of people possibly part-time employees every game day that are paid to be professional and accurate in what they do. If there is favouritism it is probably due to the methodology rather than anyone in CD having preferences.
Disclaimer: I have nothing at all to do with CD and if you review my posts you may see a few rants at the scoring in there! :). There is a guy at work who does game day work for the AFL and he is reluctant to discuss exactly what he does which makes me wonder if he is employed by CD. He does it as a second job to pay off his house. I'll grill him further when I next see him.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
 

IDIG

Leadership Group
Joined
8 Mar 2012
Messages
35,325
Likes
20,501
AFL Club
Essendon
Last edited:
Joined
6 Jul 2012
Messages
2,301
Likes
1,721
AFL Club
North Melb.
Stirling work by Phil.

Perhaps someone can answer this for me, but CD do this in real time (no replays), and so it seems to me that each game must be scored by the one person in the moment or there will be conflicts to be sorted out and resolved..Technology will help but a lot of it will still fall back to an individual's training, judgement and competence on the day. So there will inevitably be differences of opinion coming into the ranking because it involves humans. The speed with which they finalise the scores means there is no chance for review or correcting mistakes.

Finally, it seems to me useful to remember that CD is not only part of the AFL behemoth but ultimately depend on a group of people possibly part-time employees every game day that are paid to be professional and accurate in what they do. If there is favouritism it is probably due to the methodology rather than anyone in CD having preferences.
Disclaimer: I have nothing at all to do with CD and if you review my posts you may see a few rants at the scoring in there! :). There is a guy at work who does game day work for the AFL and he is reluctant to discuss exactly what he does which makes me wonder if he is employed by CD. He does it as a second job to pay off his house. I'll grill him further when I next see him.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
I'm pretty sure they have another person watching the game a couple of minutes delayed. That's why some scores go up or down by more or less in post-match scaling. Generally I find they get it about right anyway.
 
Joined
23 Jan 2014
Messages
663
Likes
186
AFL Club
Geelong
With all respect to everyone, if anyone has an issue with CD scoring then surely the correct thing to do is stop playing Herald Sun Supercoach (it's a game after all) and play AFL Fantasy where scoring is easily identifiable.
 

Bomber18

Leadership Group
Joined
11 Nov 2012
Messages
27,409
Likes
65,138
AFL Club
Essendon
Stirling work by Phil.

Perhaps someone can answer this for me, but CD do this in real time (no replays), and so it seems to me that each game must be scored by the one person in the moment or there will be conflicts to be sorted out and resolved..Technology will help but a lot of it will still fall back to an individual's training, judgement and competence on the day. So there will inevitably be differences of opinion coming into the ranking because it involves humans. The speed with which they finalise the scores means there is no chance for review or correcting mistakes.

Finally, it seems to me useful to remember that CD is not only part of the AFL behemoth but ultimately depend on a group of people possibly part-time employees every game day that are paid to be professional and accurate in what they do. If there is favouritism it is probably due to the methodology rather than anyone in CD having preferences.
Disclaimer: I have nothing at all to do with CD and if you review my posts you may see a few rants at the scoring in there! :). There is a guy at work who does game day work for the AFL and he is reluctant to discuss exactly what he does which makes me wonder if he is employed by CD. He does it as a second job to pay off his house. I'll grill him further when I next see him.
Just my thoughts on the matter.
This is a bar _________

This is Phil o->-<

This is Phil raising the bar ----------

For those who haven't seen how CD call the live match play, this is a clip from a few years ago. I suspect it's probably changed somewhat over the years though but gives you an idea of how it all works.

https://youtu.be/ZURJqa2WNdM
https://youtu.be/i_mePwh_02M?t=2m6s

This is a good one too that's from last year. They have a team of people collecting stats.
 
Joined
9 Feb 2015
Messages
492
Likes
357
AFL Club
Hawthorn
One thing I've always been curious about is when a player is under duress and kicks the ball directly to the opposition or out on the full. Is this counted as a clanger or an ineffective kick? Similarly, when a player kicks the ball down the line to a teammate, and through no fault of the kicker, his teammate is outmuscled/falls over himself/trips, and the opposition marks or gathers the ball, is this too counted as a clanger?
 

Philzsay

Leadership Group
Joined
21 Mar 2012
Messages
10,447
Likes
14,962
AFL Club
Essendon
One thing I've always been curious about is when a player is under duress and kicks the ball directly to the opposition or out on the full. Is this counted as a clanger or an ineffective kick? Similarly, when a player kicks the ball down the line to a teammate, and through no fault of the kicker, his teammate is outmuscled/falls over himself/trips, and the opposition marks or gathers the ball, is this too counted as a clanger?
I'm not sure.

The one I've been wondering about is when a player takes a mark in the goal square and has a gimme shot directly in front, no distance, totally shanks the kick missing the goal but still scores a point. Is it an ineffective kick, or is it an effective kick because it actually registers a score for his team?
 
Joined
14 Jun 2013
Messages
1,781
Likes
2,685
AFL Club
Melbourne
I'm not sure.

The one I've been wondering about is when a player takes a mark in the goal square and has a gimme shot directly in front, no distance, totally shanks the kick missing the goal but still scores a point. Is it an ineffective kick, or is it an effective kick because it actually registers a score for his team?
A behind is definitely counted as an ineffective kick.
 
Joined
9 Feb 2015
Messages
492
Likes
357
AFL Club
Hawthorn
I'm not sure.

The one I've been wondering about is when a player takes a mark in the goal square and has a gimme shot directly in front, no distance, totally shanks the kick missing the goal but still scores a point. Is it an ineffective kick, or is it an effective kick because it actually registers a score for his team?
I actually think this is a clanger. Can't remember where I read it but for shots directly in front, 15m out or closer, under no pressure, if the player misses what would be a "gimme" goal then its counted as a clanger. Someone can correct me if I am wrong! Same applies for dropped marks under no pressure.
 
Joined
9 Feb 2015
Messages
492
Likes
357
AFL Club
Hawthorn
Found this quote from Champion Data which would also suggest behinds in certain rare circumstances could be considered clangers:

"Clangers are generally turnovers or other skill or decision-making errors. They do include free kicks against, but rarely behinds (unless the kick should never have missed the goal).

We capture about 70 different statistics, each with well-defined criteria. Statistics like clanger kicks and clanger handballs (giving the ball directly to the opposition) count as clangers, as do things like simple dropped marks.

As you would understand, the exact definition is considered confidential and kept within Champion Data and client clubs."
 
Joined
13 Apr 2012
Messages
6,024
Likes
15,759
AFL Club
Port Adelaide
OK I have just gone through the tape, pausing, rewinding etc to make sure I got everything. Here are all of the pieces of play in the third quarter that Luke Dahlhaus was involved in that could be picked up on TV. I have placed a line gab between each separate piece of play:


Defensive pressure act.

Uncontested possession
Effective handball
Score assist

Handball receive
Effective handball

Handball receive
Immediately tackled, free paid against for holding the ball

Tap received from ruckman at centre bounce
Kick to a contest.
(Maybe scoring chain bonus? Not sure if would be considered part of a scoring chain as North player touched it before Doggies got a goal from forward movement).

Had hand on North player as he received ball, not sure if it would count as a defensive pressure act, personally I'd say no.

Again, sad hand on North player as he received ball, not sure if it would count as a defensive pressure act, personally I'd say no.

Contested possession
Effective Handball

Contested possession of ball, immediately tackled as grabbing ball, ball up.

Again, contested possession of ball, immediately tackled as grabbing ball, ball up.

Handball receive
Effective long distance (40m+) kick.

Defensive pressure act

Handball receive
Kick to a contest

Contested ball possession
Effective handball
Score assist.

Ball received from punch, possession
Effective handball
Part of a scoring chain

Contested possession
Effective handball
Score assist.

Contested possession
Effective kick
Goal
Scaling for putting the Dogs into the lead.

Touch of ball as it ran out of bounds


So in summary Dahlhaus was involved in the play 18 times during the third quarter, including:
1 Goal (Which gave them the lead)
3 Score assists, plus another piece of play which was part of a scoring chain (and a maybe on a second scoring chain)
6 Contested possessions of the ball
7 Uncontested possession of ball
4 Effective kicks
6 Effective handballs.
1 free against
2 defensive pressure acts, 2 more acts unlikely but may be considered defensive pressure acts.
Another touch of the ball.

Watching the replay specifically looking out for him made me appreciate what a brilliant quarter he had. He was constantly involved in the play, only the five odd minutes he was on the bench in the middle of the quarter was he not involved. Now we can't exactly say what each individual piece of play was worth in terms of SC points, but was the quarter worth 53 points overall? Absolutely IMO.
Jesus Phil, I can imagine the lengths you'd go to to prove a point after a few beers. Top work mate. I think the term they use for a gather of the ball without disposal eg. Immediately tackled, a hard ball get? Not sure if they're scored for it though.
 
Joined
25 Jun 2015
Messages
1,695
Likes
3,409
AFL Club
Essendon
Jesus Phil, I can imagine the lengths you'd go to to prove a point after a few beers. Top work mate. I think the term they use for a gather of the ball without disposal eg. Immediately tackled, a hard ball get? Not sure if they're scored for it though.
I think THINK, judging from previous discussions here and elsewhere, you *certainly* get points for a 'ground ball get', irrespective of whether or not a following disposal is made. Don't know about generally. Would doubt it.
 
Joined
22 Jan 2013
Messages
3,858
Likes
1,652
AFL Club
Collingwood
Marchbank- have barely sighted him in the last quarter barring one handball and just then getting pushed out of bounds but still his score climbs 1 point in nearlly every refresh of fan footy has scored 15+ for virtually nothing. Not complaining though he's in my side
 
Top