Discussion Cricket Discussion

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I reckon they will just give it back to Smith, won’t they? The public seem to love him again, which was probably always the test as I see it.

Difficult call if they couldn’t hand it to him though, Paine has done a good job as a leader, but really isn’t up to it as a Test top 7 batsman.
I don't know to be honest, is he actually even a good captain ? a lot of good judges don't rate him tactically

does he even want it again ?

I think Paine will stay until at least April,

hard for the public not to love him again when he is a run machine, I wonder what it was like watching Bradman bat, although he was scoring doubles and centuries at will

I have always been GS Chappell and Punter as the best since Bradman, but geez Smudge does not look like failing

at this stage I am more worried about finding some batsmen again that are up to test standard

start of the Shield season will be extremely interesting for the likes of Burns, Handscomb, Patterson, Pucovski , Renshaw then I am at a blank, Doran and Sangha don't appear ready
 

Darkie

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I don't know to be honest, is he actually even a good captain ? a lot of good judges don't rate him tactically

does he even want it again ?

I think Paine will stay until at least April,

hard for the public not to love him again when he is a run machine, I wonder what it was like watching Bradman bat, although he was scoring doubles and centuries at will

I have always been GS Chappell and Punter as the best since Bradman, but geez Smudge does not look like failing

at this stage I am more worried about finding some batsmen again that are up to test standard

start of the Shield season will be extremely interesting for the likes of Burns, Handscomb, Patterson, Pucovski , Renshaw then I am at a blank, Doran and Sangha don't appear ready
Some good points here. In one sense I think this is a difficult question, but because of a lack of options I think it arguably becomes quite straightforward:

- Smith was the captain prior to Newlands and was only banned from playing, and captaining, for a period of time. The consensus seems to be that he’s a welcome addition as a player - he’s done his time, etc etc. The public have even accepted Warner back, and he was more responsible, less liked and worse performing both pre- and post-Newlands. The public seems relatively forgiving. I appreciate that the captaincy is somewhat different, but I think a (somewhat smaller) consensus would still accept Smith as a returning captain, especially given his performances on return, his concussion etc. I don’t think I’ve heard a bad word about him in some time.

- I do think that Paine has done a good job, both on and off the field, with the Test side, and that should be respected. With that said he was always an interim appointment in my view. His batting is not of Test standard. He might be okay in a much stronger batting side where he could play more aggressively (he can be a good T20 batsman, which is amazing given that he doesn’t seem to even understand one day cricket, at least when he’s batting). I’m pretty sure Darren Lehman still has a more recent FC century than Paine. I can’t think of the last good side that played a pure keeper who wasn’t a good batsman. He only averages 5 more than Healy, and he turns 35 soon.

- Other than that the cupboard is almost bare. Warner obviously can’t do it. Khawaja is apparently good for Queensland, but he needs to get his batting sorted (now averaging 41 and dropped), and I’m not confident that he’s the type of person that improves under pressure (a lot of people do not). It’s not going to be Harris, and I don’t think they’d even consider Wade. I don’t know much about Labuschagne although I think he has been impressive recently. Head seems by far the most likely batsman, but I don’t know that he’s ready yet - he’s basically averaging 30s each series, except when he smoked a weak Sri Lankan side at home. For some reason bowlers aren’t allowed to do it, even though keeping and captaining has got to be more mentally demanding than bowling and captaining. I suspect Cummins would be quite good at it, albeit he does have an injury history, and our new rotation policy for the quicks probably makes it difficult. He would likely have to miss a bit more white ball cricket to make it viable, which they’d probably be reluctant to do. Lyon might be a possibility, but I’m not 100% sure about him as a potential leader ... his judgment has at times seemed a bit questionable based on some of the things he has said (I know Smith’s hasn’t been perfect!).

It’s not a great situation when only 7 players in the side are in a position to captain (no bowlers), one of them is banned from captaining forever, and only one other is an obvious lock to even be picked in the side long term ... but that seems to be where we find ourselves. Smith is also our best batsman, and that’s who we tend to give the captaincy to.

My guess would be: Paine remains captain until Smith’s ban ends, with a transition back to Smith shortly thereafter (Smith was already moving fielders earlier in the series). Paine may or may not play on, but transitioning to Carey fairly soon likely makes sense, especially if Carey can make FC runs. Then they groom Head as Smith’s replacement, while avoiding a Michael Clarke situation where he’s the obvious successor with negative consequences. He is already co vice captain, has captained SA since 2015, and appears to have performed when given more responsibility, so he seems like a natural successor once he has had more time to mature ... unless someone else establishes themselves before Smith’s time is done (which I suspect could be quite a few years off yet).
 
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@OzRulesFootball you would have been around in Bradman's time :)

is Smith mania even close ?
I was around for Greg Chappell time.
There was more aura to Greg Chappell in how classy he was.
This feels like a different appreciation of same sport in different times of internet, smaller boundaries, different bats etc etc.
The mania of Smith actual stats is more manic as far as us fans now that communicate our following of game through internet that did not happen in those times.

I wish I saw Bradman but I have his letters...lol.. I not even sure if I like the man too much himself after all I read and heard about him.

I do think Smith is a genuine freak. His mannerisms and everything take him in a different headpsace and physical hand eye co-ordination to even most Test cricketers. He probably has the same hand eye co-ordination of a Mark Waugh but a total intense internally character and super driven to achieve so much and sense his overall life is not normal even for world class cricketers. Freak is word keep coming back to more and more recently.
 
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I think it is do or die for the Aussies today. If they can’t get it done tonight then I don’t fancy their chances of generating another opportunity in the final test (like the 3rd and 4th) with our brittle batting lineup.
 
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Stumps Day 4

Afghanistan 342 , 260
Bangladesh 205 , 136/6

only Shakib & rain can stop Afghanistan from winning

Nabi has announced his Test retirement
 
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They're coming (back) home!

Not overly convincing, struggled to get wickets near the end, but was good to see the Aussies to retain the Ashes. Even if they should have wrapped it up last match.
 
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They're coming (back) home!

Not overly convincing, struggled to get wickets near the end, but was good to see the Aussies to retain the Ashes. Even if they should have wrapped it up last match.
they actually don't leave England.

great effort , well captained by Paine
 
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I’ve come to the realisation that is unlikely to ever happen with so many games going on around the world.
I’m torn for the Ashes, I think putting some English and Australian umpires in wouldn’t be the source of bias. It would worry me in other regions with a history of corruption...
 

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I’m torn for the Ashes, I think putting some English and Australian umpires in wouldn’t be the source of bias. It would worry me in other regions with a history of corruption...
I’m not sure we can be certain that the English and Australians would be above corruption, but I agree. Local umpires should be able read conditions best, and if they are the best available, they should be used.
 
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Very happy for Tim Paine. Given the nonsense he copped from a few mistakes last game was good to see soon after he fixing any fluff ups and make sure Aussie come back from England with the Ashes for first time in 18 years.

Always sensed when saw Marnus out getting lessons from Warney before the match on day one, that he would be used at some point for his bowling. Beautiful to see that worked a treat when Poms were fighting so bloody well to survive. Leach full of character in this series and the single Test v Ireland.

Been wonderful Test series to watch everyone tested to nth degree. Not everyone can pass these Tests. A few like Warner, Roy, Buttler, Bancroft, Khwaja and Ali have come up very short. Others like Smith, Stokes, Cummins and Broad have only enhanced their standing in Test cricket.
 
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