Discussion Cricket Discussion

[Herbie66]

finally play starts after tea and Rashid Khan takes 6-40 (11 WM) to bowl his team to a 224 run victory.

well done , hopefully they can get some more Tests.

 

[Herbie66]

Rashid first cricketer to take 10WM and score a 50 on his captaincy debut.

3rd captain overall after Imran Khan and Alan Border.

 

[Herbie66]

England have named a unchanged XIII for The Oval.

Stokes will play as a specialist batsmen if deemed unfit to bowl so Curran or Woakes would come in for Denly/Roy (or Buttler).

Surely they need to introduce 3-4 new batsmen in their next series against New Zealand.

 

[Herbie66]

Here's how the World Test Championship table looks as of September 9, 2019

1. India - 120 points (P - 2, W - 2, L - 0, D - 0)

2. New Zealand - 60 points (P - 2, W - 1, L - 1, D - 0)

3. Sri Lanka - 60 points (P - 2, W - 1, L -1, D - 0)

4. Australia - 56 points (P - 4, W - 2, L - 1, D - 1)

5. England - 32 points (P - 4, W - 1, L - 2, D - 1)

6. West Indies - 0 points (P - 2, W - 0, L -2, D - 0)

 

[Herbie66]

I was around for Greg Chappell time.
There was more aura to Greg Chappell in how classy he was.
This feels like a different appreciation of same sport in different times of internet, smaller boundaries, different bats etc etc.
The mania of Smith actual stats is more manic as far as us fans now that communicate our following of game through internet that did not happen in those times.

I wish I saw Bradman but I have his letters...lol.. I not even sure if I like the man too much himself after all I read and heard about him.

I do think Smith is a genuine freak. His mannerisms and everything take him in a different headpsace and physical hand eye co-ordination to even most Test cricketers. He probably has the same hand eye co-ordination of a Mark Waugh but a total intense internally character and super driven to achieve so much and sense his overall life is not normal even for world class cricketers. Freak is word keep coming back to more and more recently.

Interesting re your comments about Bradman, have read a lot of books over the years referencing very similar things how he was not that liked as a player, captain and administrator.

Think it stemmed from after the 1930 tour when he got a lot of the public attention (and money) when the team returned home , which upset the likes of Ponsford & Woodfull etc

Also bodyline being used to curtail him when the other players had to endure it as well didn't do him any favours.

Was the time of the catholic and protestant division in the dressing room as well, from all accounts players like Fingleton, Grimmett, O"Reilly, Richardson etc despised him and would barely speak to him (sounds like Michael Clarke), think the Chappell's have all held the grudge , especially Ian for how he and Richardson got on.

Certainly can't dispute his batting feats though , you are right though different time, different coverage etc etc

Forgot all about Smith and his mannerisms until the Ashes started, can't keep still, works though he makes batting look like he is at a different level to the others at the moment.

 

[Herbie66]

Some good points here. In one sense I think this is a difficult question, but because of a lack of options I think it arguably becomes quite straightforward:

- Smith was the captain prior to Newlands and was only banned from playing, and captaining, for a period of time. The consensus seems to be that he’s a welcome addition as a player - he’s done his time, etc etc. The public have even accepted Warner back, and he was more responsible, less liked and worse performing both pre- and post-Newlands. The public seems relatively forgiving. I appreciate that the captaincy is somewhat different, but I think a (somewhat smaller) consensus would still accept Smith as a returning captain, especially given his performances on return, his concussion etc. I don’t think I’ve heard a bad word about him in some time.

- I do think that Paine has done a good job, both on and off the field, with the Test side, and that should be respected. With that said he was always an interim appointment in my view. His batting is not of Test standard. He might be okay in a much stronger batting side where he could play more aggressively (he can be a good T20 batsman, which is amazing given that he doesn’t seem to even understand one day cricket, at least when he’s batting). I’m pretty sure Darren Lehman still has a more recent FC century than Paine. I can’t think of the last good side that played a pure keeper who wasn’t a good batsman. He only averages 5 more than Healy, and he turns 35 soon.

- Other than that the cupboard is almost bare. Warner obviously can’t do it. Khawaja is apparently good for Queensland, but he needs to get his batting sorted (now averaging 41 and dropped), and I’m not confident that he’s the type of person that improves under pressure (a lot of people do not). It’s not going to be Harris, and I don’t think they’d even consider Wade. I don’t know much about Labuschagne although I think he has been impressive recently. Head seems by far the most likely batsman, but I don’t know that he’s ready yet - he’s basically averaging 30s each series, except when he smoked a weak Sri Lankan side at home. For some reason bowlers aren’t allowed to do it, even though keeping and captaining has got to be more mentally demanding than bowling and captaining. I suspect Cummins would be quite good at it, albeit he does have an injury history, and our new rotation policy for the quicks probably makes it difficult. He would likely have to miss a bit more white ball cricket to make it viable, which they’d probably be reluctant to do. Lyon might be a possibility, but I’m not 100% sure about him as a potential leader ... his judgment has at times seemed a bit questionable based on some of the things he has said (I know Smith’s hasn’t been perfect!).

It’s not a great situation when only 7 players in the side are in a position to captain (no bowlers), one of them is banned from captaining forever, and only one other is an obvious lock to even be picked in the side long term ... but that seems to be where we find ourselves. Smith is also our best batsman, and that’s who we tend to give the captaincy to.

My guess would be: Paine remains captain until Smith’s ban ends, with a transition back to Smith shortly thereafter (Smith was already moving fielders earlier in the series). Paine may or may not play on, but transitioning to Carey fairly soon likely makes sense, especially if Carey can make FC runs. Then they groom Head as Smith’s replacement, while avoiding a Michael Clarke situation where he’s the obvious successor with negative consequences. He is already co vice captain, has captained SA since 2015, and appears to have performed when given more responsibility, so he seems like a natural successor once he has had more time to mature ... unless someone else establishes themselves before Smith’s time is done (which I suspect could be quite a few years off yet).

Great post

Cricket Australia will have a very interesting choice to make if Smith doesn't want the captaincy back.

I just wonder if their still is that feeling that Smith could've, should've done more at Newlands to stop what happened (although I am a big believer that it was (is) not the first time we have been ball tampering in recent years, TV broadcasters having a tip off before the game hence why they were following Bancroft's very move between balls leaves me still having a very suspicious mind that it had been going on beforehand.

Khawaja possibly if he gets back in the side, Head I am still not convinced on, something about Lyon that I don't think he would make a good captain, I can't see Cummins or Hazlewood getting it, I think the worry with a bowler is they may end up under bowling themselves.

The Labuschagne man might be in the front running, amazing to think if Smudge hadn't been KO'ed he probably would not even be playing.

As for Paine, in fact, the 215 that he scored while playing as a specialist batsman in his fifth Sheffield Shield game, back in October 2006, remains his only first-class century.

 

[Herbie66]

Series Averages - England

Burns 323 @ 40.37
Denly 204 @ 25.50
Root 247 @ 30.87
Roy 110 @ 13.75
Bairstow 178 @ 25.42
Stokes 354 @ 59.00
Buttler 130 @ 16.25

 

[OzRulesFootball]

Interesting re your comments about Bradman, have read a lot of books over the years referencing very similar things how he was not that liked as a player, captain and administrator.

Think it stemmed from after the 1930 tour when he got a lot of the public attention (and money) when the team returned home , which upset the likes of Ponsford & Woodfull etc

Also bodyline being used to curtail him when the other players had to endure it as well didn't do him any favours.

Was the time of the catholic and protestant division in the dressing room as well, from all accounts players like Fingleton, Grimmett, O"Reilly, Richardson etc despised him and would barely speak to him (sounds like Michael Clarke), think the Chappell's have all held the grudge , especially Ian for how he and Richardson got on.

Not sure Greg Chappell held the grudge so much. He apparently took advice from Bradman on way he was holding the bat and took it.
But Ian and Greg's mother refused to drive down some road in Adelaide with Bradman's name on it. Might have been something to the Catholic and Prods thing too back in those times. Funny you mention those surnames. I think Grimmett was the photographer at my parents wedding. I'll have to find the photos somewhere and check it out.

 

[Herbie66]

Not sure Greg Chappell held the grudge so much. He apparently took advice from Bradman on way he was holding the bat and took it.
But Ian and Greg's mother refused to drive down some road in Adelaide with Bradman's name on it. Might have been something to the Catholic and Prods thing too back in those times. Funny you mention those surnames. I think Grimmett was the photographer at my parents wedding. I'll have to find the photos somewhere and check it out.

You are spot on , think it was very much Ian , something to do with Richardson when he captained Australia on the South Africa tour when Bradman was ill , then many clashes when Chappelli was captain of South Australia & Australia and Bradman ran cricket.

Sir Donald Bradman Drive.

From memory now Ian kicked up a stink about the Chappell stands as well and wanted it facing away from the Bradman stand (or something along those lines)

never knew Grimmett was a photographer , please update.

 

[OzRulesFootball]

You are spot on , think it was very much Ian.

Sir Donald Bradman Drive.

From memory now Ian kicked up a stink about the Chappell stands as well and wanted it facing away from the Bradman stand (or something along those lines)

never knew Grimmett was a photographer , please update.

Don't think he was. Just did a search. Must have been his son taking the photos. Did a search and see Vic Grimmett is a photographer.

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/resource/PRG+1662/1/67/17

 

[Herbie66]

Don't think he was. Just did a search. Must have been his son taking the photos. Did a search and see Vic Grimmett is a photographer.

https://collections.slsa.sa.gov.au/resource/PRG+1662/1/67/17

still a pretty amazing coincidence

 

[OzRulesFootball]

Will Warner survive to play this final Test in the series ?

This has got to same level of Graham Gooch out to Terry Alderman in one Ashes series.

 

[Herbie66]

Will Warner survive to play this final Test in the series ?

This has got to same level of Graham Gooch out to Terry Alderman in one Ashes series.

interview with Langer on the ABC indicated very strongly that he won't be dropped

and famously changed his message on his answering machine “I’m out. Probably lbw to Terry Alderman”.

 

[Herbie66]

Steven Peter Devereux Smith currently has 671 runs in the series

only Bradman 974 in 1930 , Taylor 839 in 1989 & Bradman 758 in 1934 have scored more in England by a Australian

Smudge has batted 3 times at The Oval before:

138 * , 7 in 2013
143 , dnb in 2015

how close can he get to Don's 974 ?

 

[Herbie66]

Curran & Woakes into the England XI for Overton & Roy.

 

[Diabolical]

Mitch Marsh comes into the XI for the 5th test. Travis Head dropped.

A decision on Pat Cummins fitness will be made today with Peter Siddle, who has been named in the XII, his likely replacement.

 

[Diabolical]

Wow

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1171779751364763654

 

[Herbie66]

Mitch Marsh comes into the XI for the 5th test. Travis Head dropped.

A decision on Pat Cummins fitness will be made today with Peter Siddle, who has been named in the XII, his likely replacement.

Averages 3 at The Oval with the bat , BUT of the 21 Test grounds he has played on this is where he has taken his most wickets = 5.

3/30 & 2/56 in 2015.

 

[Ironhawk]

Seems odd to drop Head. I understand they want another bowling option but there are other batsman in much worse form.

 

[Herbie66]

Seems odd to drop Head. I understand they want another bowling option but there are other batsman in much worse form.

Think it came down to Head or Wade once they decided to go with Marsh.

Listening/reading yesterday from Langer , Warner was never getting dropped.

Surprised that Harris didn't get dropped for Khawaja though.

Banking on Smith to make the majority of the runs again.