Position Midfielder Discussion

randomcliche · 10 Feb 2020

I wouldn't trust historical averages. New coach back in the drivers seat.

Ben's Beasts · 10 Feb 2020

Did a bit of an analysis over lunch today while looking for some midfielders outside of the top tier priced players.

Wanted to see which players in the 500k - 600k bracket finished off last season well.

Here’s the top 7 midfielders and their averages from their last 7 games of the home and away season with any injury affected games removed.

1. Jarryd Lyons (124.7)
2. Stephen Coniglio (117.6)
3. James Worpel (115.7)
4. Dion Prestia (115.3)
5. Elliott Yeo (114.9)
6. Dayne Zorko (114.4)
7. Seb Ross (114.0)

Will be interesting to see how many of the above can carry their end of season form into this season.

Herbie66 · 10 Feb 2020

randomcliche said:

I guess historical averages are only their as a guide.

Nah might just pick the Scottish Suitcase instead.

New coach might change after being appointed full time as well ?

Zagbag · 10 Feb 2020

Herbie66 said:

If every player just went at their historical averages, this wouldn't be a competition at all. All the racehorces would finish at the same time, due to the perfect handicap.

Our job is to look beyond the numbers, and see what might change.

manyproblems · 10 Feb 2020

Manikato1 said:

A few weeks ago there was a story in the paper that started out as Fyfe being asked about Ross Lyon getting another coaching gig and Fyfe saying sure-why not. But then it kind of morphed into a discussion about new coach JLo. I think some of the quotes used were also from SEN radio interview which I found online (below) but I did not find the tone of the newspaper article very positive.

While Fyfe is forever indebted to former coach Ross Lyon who he spent eight years with, the two-time Brownlow Medallist is relishing a fresh start.
“I’m trying to be as open-minded as I can. He (Longmuir) comes in with new language and philosophy on culture, preparation and game plan,” Fyfe told SEN Drive.
“For someone who has done it one way for eight years, it is quite invigorating to have a fresh look at things and it’s quite important that we get on the same page quickly.”
“It is different … Justin is a connector,” Fyfe said.
“He (Longmuir) is a person who likes to build relationships, move between player groups, staff, coaches, physios to get to know everyone, build that culture and build that environment.
“His view on the game is different to what Ross’ was. Justin has a view that really looks at opportunity and ways to score and potentially a bit freer flowing (football).
“There’s a lot of good elements about what we’re doing, and I guess the proof in the pudding will be once we start playing games.”

Fyfe does say he is relishing a fresh start and it is invigorating to look at things differently but I don't see that interview as a ringing endorsement of whatever JLo has in mind.

I would emphasise this was purely my interpretation of the article (and radio interview) but I did not get a very positive vibe from it. I might be looking at the glass half empty instead of half full but I am wondering if JLo has told Fyfe his role will be different and Fyfe is yet to come to terms with it.

Will be tough to fill the shoes of Lyon, Fyfe loved him clearly, as did all the top dogs at the Saints. May have some effect on Fyfe but we'll see, hard to tell if this coach is good or not but signs could be better.

Herbie66 · 10 Feb 2020

Zagbag said:

I guess it is hard to judge historical averages over a 9 year career anyway as the player is at different stages of his career/development etc etc.

Doesn't show if he was injured , role restricted , TOG etc etc

I do find TooSerious very useful for the stats they have on players though.

Good luck if Curnow does achieve 105+ in his 10th season at the age of 30 , think I will look elsewhere.

THCLT · 10 Feb 2020

Ben's Beasts said:

I know that one Ed Curnow doesn't quite make your 500k threshold, but he went 115.1 during his last 7 games as well.

Just putting his name in the mix as there are some robust discussion around him.

Hasnoshoes · 10 Feb 2020

Ben's Beasts said:

I always like to look at who they played in that bracket before calling it a "trend". Example - Coniglio went 207 vs GC so it's more likely who he played rather than a prediction of his future scoring.

Grundogging · 10 Feb 2020

Bermi said:

Perhaps it could have been a bit more of a back-hander for the Saints coaching and development staff?

Connoisseur · 10 Feb 2020

Leroy said:

Avg at Venue:
Domain Stadium: 111.39 from 64 (19/64 below 100, 25/64 120+)
2011: 106.92 from 12
2012: 95.5 from 6
2013: 109.27 from 11
2014: 128.1 from 10
2015: 117 from 10
2016: 108.33 from 3
2017: 107.92 from 12

Optus Stadium: 118.72 from 18 (4/18 below 100, 12/18 120+)
2018: 117.88 from 8
2019: 119.4 from 10

Interstate: 112.86 from 64 (17/64 below 100, 26/64 120+)
2011: 109.56 from 9
2012: 88.67 from 3
2013: 102.63 from 8
2014: 115.13 from 8
2015: 133.38 from 8
2016: 101 from 2
2017: 109.89 from 9
2018: 109.29 from 7
2019: 120.6 from 10

Domain Stadium Wins: 114.98 from 42 (11/42 below 100, 18/42 120+)
2011: 124.6 from 5
2012: 95 from 5
2013: 107.3 from 10
2014: 127.44 from 9
2015: 116.88 from 8
2016: 0 from 0
2017: 115.2 from 5

Optus Stadium Wins: 129.4 from 10 (1/10 below 100, 9/10 120+)
2018: 139.25 from 4
2019: 122.83 from 6

Domain Stadium Losses: 104.55 from 22 (8/22 below 100, 7/22 120+)
2011: 94.29 from 7
2012: 98 from 1
2013: 129 from 1
2014: 134 from 1
2015: 117.5 from 2
2016: 108.33 from 3
2017: 102.71 from 7

Optus Stadium Losses: 105.38 from 8 (3/8 below 100, 3/8 120+)
2018: 96.5 from 4
2019: 114.25 from 4

Professor · 10 Feb 2020

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1226778969824845826

NT.Thunder · 10 Feb 2020

Professor said:

Lockity lock, lock, lock for me all going well to round 1

Rumbler · 10 Feb 2020

Wanted to get some of your thoughts on the below players. Why or why not?

T.Kelly?
H.Bennell?
Cripps or Dangerfield to start off with?
Dunkley or Bontempelli?

NT.Thunder · 10 Feb 2020

Rumbler said:

Kelly I’d be happy to start, more spec though really.
Bennell not for me
Cripps and Danger - hell yes!
Dunkley or Bont - case to start either but a real coin toss there and hence why I’m happy to watch them both early.

Goodie's Guns · 10 Feb 2020

Rumbler said:

Tim Kelly - No for me, can see a slight increase potentially, but not enough to see him into the uber MID premium level that you would want to nail from the get go as a starting selection.

Harley Bennell - I'm a huge Harley fan footy wise, loved watching him play and have had him in SC back when he was a good/decent pick at the Suns. Can't see him playing seniors Round 1, hopefully gets himself 100% right and can put together some solid VFL form to press for a senior game. Will want to see him get through his first two games in the seniors before jumping on, but provided he does that then I have no further hesitations.

Patrick Cripps & Patrick Dangerfield - Currently have Cripps in my side, should be a lock for that 115+, some indifferent scoring patterns last year, but did have that injury and the whole coaching changeover, etc. Still scope to improve his scoring particulalry if the Blues can start to win some more games. Dangerfield probably fighting it out for the final premium spot in my midfield at the moment, think he averaged 120 last year when you take out his injury impacted game, age the only concern for me at the moment. Does he slightly tapper off? Or does he even get back to that 130 mark in going hell for leather at a premiership medal which he doesn't yet have?

Josh Dunkley or Marcus Bontempelli - Dunkley for me, think Bevo finally realised that his best position is in the guts, the kid is an absolute star. With Bontempelli there is always the fear that he could be thrown forward if the Dogs need something extra down there, even with the addition of Bruce, where's I think Dunkley moves down the list of 'throw forward' options now with the Bruce addition. Also, the tag will go to Bontempelli and Macrae before Dunkley which is an absolute gift given if put in most other midfielders Dunkley would definitely be tagged first, and if not then definitely second.

Tails · 10 Feb 2020

Goodie's Guns said:

Tim Kelly - No for me, can see a slight increase potentially, but not enough to see him into the uber MID premium level that you would want to nail from the get go as a starting selection.

Harley Bennell - I'm a huge Harley fan footy wise, loved watching him play and have had him in SC back when he was a good/decent pick at the Suns. Can't see him playing seniors Round 1, hopefully gets himself 100% right and can put together some solid VFL form to press for a senior game. Will want to see him get through his first two games in the seniors before jumping on, but provided he does that then I have no further hesitations.

Patrick Cripps & Patrick Dangerfield - Currently have Cripps in my side, should be a lock for that 115+, some indifferent scoring patterns last year, but did have that injury and the whole coaching changeover, etc. Still scope to improve his scoring particulalry if the Blues can start to win some more games. Dangerfield probably fighting it out for the final premium spot in my midfield at the moment, think he averaged 120 last year when you take out his injury impacted game, age the only concern for me at the moment. Does he slightly tapper off? Or does he even get back to that 130 mark in going hell for leather at a premiership medal which he doesn't yet have?

Josh Dunkley or Marcus Bontempelli - Dunkley for me, think Bevo finally realised that his best position is in the guts, the kid is an absolute star. With Bontempelli there is always the fear that he could be thrown forward if the Dogs need something extra down there, even with the addition of Bruce, where's I think Dunkley moves down the list of 'throw forward' options now with the Bruce addition. Also, the tag will go to Bontempelli and Macrae before Dunkley which is an absolute gift given if put in most other midfielders Dunkley would definitely be tagged first, and if not then definitely second.

Cripps to me is an upgrade target for exactly what you have mentioned ... not sure yet though ... can't pay 600k+ for maybes ...

Bomber18 · 11 Feb 2020

Bomber18 said:

@GrainFedBeef @Manikato1

It may be that you guys have more access to the WA news, but I must admit after digging a bit deeper into BF I did find poster comments suggesting Fyfe had spent more time fwd during training/match sim. I personally find it silly and hard to believe that the new coach plans to plonk the best inside mid in the comp up forward but seems like it could happen. Will follow closely in preseason games, Fyfe probably still averages 110 with say 60/40 splits but not 120. I am reconsidering Fyfe as well.

Manikato1 · 11 Feb 2020

Bomber18 said:

Like I said before it was only the vibe from those reports that I did not like. If JLo plays him more forward maybe it is because he wants to give him the best chance of extending his playing career. Thats's purely spec by me but perhaps at 28 JLo wants another 5 years out of a top player and club leader and this is his way of getting it. The pre season games will be very interesting.

I don't have in my team but not because of any possible change in his role. I left him out because he is always a risk of missing games. I think he is one of those guys you start or you stay right away. Nothing worse than seeing him blitz it for the first 10 rds you traded him in and then he gets a 3 week inj.

GrainFedBeef · 11 Feb 2020

Bomber18 said:

Manikato1 said:

Hard to gauge and with Fyfe he always makes comments about being a team player (do whats best for team), think because he is perceived to not be. Expect if he does play forward it is only for 10-20% more. Hogan out robs them up forward and doesn't help. Sounds like Hogan will not return.

Not in Perth, just have seen similar comments.

THCLT · 11 Feb 2020

I've moved posts relating to @NT.Thunder starting teams from previous seasons to a dedicated 'new' thread, link below for those wishing to follow the discussions like myself.

NT.Thunder Starting Team From Previous Seasons

Position Midfielder Discussion

Who are your likely 3 starters post Marsh 1...?

Macrae

Neale

Fyfe

Kelly

Cripps

Dunkley

Titch

Danger

Bont

Oliver

randomcliche

Ben's Beasts

Leadership Group

Herbie66

Zagbag

manyproblems

Herbie66

THCLT

BBL|05 Winner

Hasnoshoes

Grundogging

Connoisseur

Leadership Group

Professor

NT.Thunder

Rumbler

NT.Thunder

Goodie's Guns

Leadership Group

Tails

Bomber18

Leadership Group

Manikato1

GrainFedBeef

THCLT

BBL|05 Winner