General Discussion

[OzRulesFootball]

Who's everyone tipping tonight? Tough tough tough one imo.

Hawks. Hopefully do better in Rowsus Spread Tipping Comp for this round.
I had some ordinary tipping form of late.

 

[blue dreamer]

Who's everyone tipping tonight? Tough tough tough one imo.

Hawks, less than two goals.

 

[benderiffic]

Hawks, less than two goals.

So you've taken the coll line?

 

[Goodie's Guns]

Anybody else see the celebration of a Zorko goal tonight where it looked like the Lions players were shaking hands sarcastically and nodding their heads?? What was the go there??

 

[av1jme]

Anybody else see the celebration of a Zorko goal tonight where it looked like the Lions players were shaking hands sarcastically and nodding their heads?? What was the go there??

They were celebrating a vossing

 

[Bomber18]

RIP essendon

Shocked at the new claims. Beyond what I imagined.

Lost for words, 25,000 jabs, I really fear for the long term effects on players.

 

[av1jme]

I think the question now is whether the Bombers can concentrate on their finals preparation.
Both Hird and Thompson have a lot of things on their mind and on game day, whether they can just bring it on.

i think if they beat Carlton this week, might just give the entire club a bit of a boost.

RIP essendon

Shocked at the new claims. Beyond what I imagined.

Lost for words, 25,000 jabs, I really fear for the long term effects on players.

 

[Dynamo]

I think the question now is whether the Bombers can concentrate on their finals preparation.
Both Hird and Thompson have a lot of things on their mind and on game day, whether they can just bring it on.

i think if they beat Carlton this week, might just give the entire club a bit of a boost.

Do you mean boost or shot in the arm.

 

[av1jme]

Do you mean boost or shot in the arm.

LOL .... I should have mentioned no pun intended.

 

[Impromptu]

Just reading the letter/claim/charge sheet, this could get very ugly, very very ugly.

Let's all be diplomatic with our views, however this is the charge sheet: http://www.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/EssendonFC-notice-of-charges.pdf

I'm an Essendon supporter, but let allow due process take its path.

 

[PC]

Sorry if I seem naive, but surely all the stuff Essendon was trying out has been done somewhere else in the world before? Anyone know of other similar situations?

I find it hard to believe Australia was the first place in the world where sporting clubs 'may' have pushed the limits with these kinds of substances.

EDIT - I just read the charge sheet in full.

Oh. dear.

 

[Bomber18]

Three way war here.
ASADA, AFL, EFC

Court is now inevitable. I obviously concede EFC have had major shortcomings in their governance, ie: not following their own protocols, allowing Dank/Robinson to do as they please.
BUT AFL and ASADA have also had major shortcomings in their conduct. AFL's knowledge of AOD's status, ASADA's failure to give adequate advice. All three parties have acted in a way that is blameworthy.
AD's position should be heavily scrutinised, in my opinion.

As an Essendon supporter, I'm not sure whether I can continue to support a club that was so ignorant and idiotic in such a high risk program. I can only hope there is more to the story than what has been alleged by the charge sheet.

 

[OzRulesFootball]

I posted this over 6 months ago. Feb 8th to be exact :

Yes, that "Whatever it takes sign" infamous now. This is bigger than just worrying about one club. I'm really ****ed off any football club lets sports dieticians and so called scientists dictate to them any form of what a player can digest or in take into their bodies for the purposes of changing the build on a player. The moment any and all clubs started investing and employing people from outside the normal football club culture they should have made sure they were extremely careful not be be delving into an area of directing or providing players any form of supplements. Pain killing injections and headache tables is one thing. Vitamins and any chemical compounds for purposes of changing a players biochemistry is something complete different. The first worrying sign was when some clubs started looking into cycling guys running the fitness regime of a playing group. It is clearly the most tainted sporting industry along with Weight lifting with regards to performance enhancing dodginess and most of us were making comical jokes about Essendon soft tissue issues last season and the Wheapon. Now it does not seem so funny anymore. I just hope for everyones sake the Essendon group get a clear slate on this and all the clubs are shaken up and review their whole area of delving into fitness gurus, dieticians, so called pharmacy experts and *high performance management*. Clubs have been making a big deal in recent seasons of investing in these areas big time to outdo each other to get some edge. It is a wake up call for everyone.

A week later I was already sick of the off field crap :

God I hate how the off field stuff just drags on and on and on in the last couple of years via the media. Was so sick of hearing about bloody Cloke contract crap, then the ongoing Demons tank crap, then ongoing media speculation on Ratts, now just as we are about to bury all the tank speculation crap we now have to deal with a dark cloud hanging over Essendon for months on end into the season and the bloody media will go and and on about it and barely focus on the actual games. If it is not that you can be sure it will make a mountain out of a molehill about clubs simply discussing and reviewing equalisation funds. It is sad how the media politics gets more of the attention than the actual matches and players.

1 Originally Posted by Nk29 I reckon that even if the players get off, the management (James Hird, Bomber Thompson et al) will be screwed if there are illegal supplements involved.

Can't believe after the 6 months not much has changed since I wrote this :

Irrespective of whether there is anything unapproved officially in the supplements, the fact that they've got themselves in a situation where they are not even sure, is a massive balls ups and someone needs to take responsibility for how things got out of control to be in this ridiculous situation now for their club. Looking from the outside it is hard to pinpoint where it has gone wrong but it seems the their has been some confusion within themselves as to some "chain of command" so to speak, which probably means someone higher up needs to take responsibility for allowing their football department to get into this mess. The whole vagueness of how Bomber Thompson kind of just turned up at training one day and become part of their club again without any clear cut defined appointment to his role is telling me the leadership in that club from the top is not strong and clear enough.

Most of this lack of governance crap begun with how Bomber just walked off the street returning to Windy Hill at training one day with no real defined official appointment I can recall.... When you read the charge sheet regarding how no real due diligence was followed soon after with high performance coach and so called sports scientist joins the club it is clear to me how this culture just evolved around this time. A lack of professionalism in how some people joined the football department and clearly defined roles and chain of comman not in place.

Originally Posted by Drew
Dean Bailey got 16 weeks for "not tanking", the AFL will bend Essendon over the table if there's anything untoward been going on.

I was not even talking about what the AFL will or won't do. First and foremost within the Essendon club themselves they need to get their **** in order and someone show some balls and take responsibility for getting in this mess. So far there is no clear leader in their club doing that from what I can see.

The whole Melbourne situation is another issue altogether. That mess in itself was created by the AFL priority pick rules in the first place and thankfully that rule about winning less than 25% of your games to get a priority pick is gone. It would have been better if a year or two ago the AFL just admitted that rule was not good for the league as a whole then Connolly and Bailey would not have to pay such a hefty price for being a bit loose with their language.

By 1st of May nothing much new heard from important figures but I was convinced by then some people need to go:

CEO of club and football department head need to go I would suggest. Just plain sad that players in a position where they trust the environment is looking out for them and they've been let down massively on so many levels. At the same time I'm amazed more of the players did not question whether this was good for them.

Zim had his own funny sum up of his read on this as they stood at 1st July

The Essendon story so far;

1. We're shocked to be sitting here 2. We don't know what we've taken 3. We've taken nothing illegal 4. We can't comment during the investigation. 5. No one outside Dank and the Weapon knew what was going on 6. Those invoices? What invoices? Oh, you mean the ones we signed and paid. 7. We don't know what we've taken 8. We've taken nothing illegal 9. We can't comment during the investigation. 10. What consent forms? 11. Oh. those consent forms. They don't prove that the substances named were actually taken. 12. The coaches and doctors didn't know about the forms or the program. Its all Dank and the Weapon's fault. 13. Oh yeah. Hirdy was in the room when the Consent forms were signed 14. And oh yeah - Hirdy had a six month text fling with Dank raving on about the program 15. We can't comment during the investigation. 16. We don't know what we've taken 17. We've taken nothing illegal 18. But wait! We have a letter 19. No we don't 20. We can't comment during the investigation. 21. The forms state AOD-9604 22. But look! it's not in Section S2 of the WADA banned substances list 23. Oh, but it is in section S0. Damn! 24. But look there have been some cosmetics use! All clear! 25. Damn... WADA says banned for athletes 26. But it's OK to use AOD if you have a prescription and obtain it from a compounding pharmacist. Oh damn, that only applies for medications approved for Human use. 27. We can't comment during the investigation. 28. Yeah but... we aren't saying we took AOD-9604 29. But if we did take it, we think we're fine 30. Jobe admits he took a banned substance. 31. Doc Reid knew about it after all 32. But we're still fine. Jobe and Timmy say so. 33. We can't comment during the investigation.

Finally on 27th July David Evans resigned.

The AFL said that Melbourne didn't tank, yet it fined them half a million for "bringing the game into disrepute" and suspended both Connolly and Bailey.

So I guess they can say that although they may not have definitive proof that certain Essendon players took certain drugs, the cir***stantial evidence surrounding the case has damaged the reputation of the AFL.

Certainly has done damage. They will have to pay some consequences as a result. August 26 will get us closer what is the consequence.

I'm not disputing what your saying here, but I want to know, in your opinion, what Essendon has done wrong.

Creating an unhealthy culture of experimentally altering the biochemistry of players in such a way which involves injections with supplements of questionable nature and uncertainty. There appears to be no real clarity and accountability for what took place exactly. It has lead to a unhealthy culture of pushing boundaries in such a way that young players have been asked to sign waiver forms. This is not the type of sporting atmosphere a football club should be encouraging. It takes the emphasis of what players are ingesting into your body system to grey areas to such a point the club themselves were not 100% sure themselves if they could mistakenly ingested players with substances that move in a direction as to be performance enhancing.
Not a good look at all for a professional Australian Rules football club which should be about promoting playing our great game. These guys involved in this football department that allowed this to go on need to be held accountable for letting a program of such questionable nature to take place whereby they felt the need to self report their own club. They are positions where they should see themselves as custodians of our game. It is not an image and environment our game and clubs should be creating where us onlookers question whether players could have gone down a path where performance enhancing substances could have been unwittingly been taken. The AFL need to make a stand and show this is not what we want our clubs and game to be engaging in programs of this nature where injections and off site ingesting of substances are encouraged to players to take part in.

The sooner this is over the better. Unfortunately I sense some people will want to involve lawyers into all this and it might get messy and into next year sadly. Hope not. Lets hope some appropriate level of accountability for what took place is accepted by those involved and we can get on with football clubs being more about playing football rather than worrying about the biochemistry of players.

Now AFL finally released their own take on things Essendon club face as doing wrong by the game.
Funny how what I wrote in answer to Damoz basically sums it up without needing to go into specifics.

Unfortunately over 6 months not much I've heard in all that time has shed much more substantial difference to my first impression sadly. What a waste of half a year of so much media speculation. For mine I mainly listened to what key people involved have said and none of it has ever made me think players were cheats but geez the sloppy nature of how things were done should have meant more people stood up and took responsibility rather than let their egos get in the way Sad, Sad, Sad!!!

 

[PC]

The letter from Doc Reid to Hird is a particularly bad look.

 

[OzRulesFootball]

The letter from Doc Reid to Hird is a particularly bad look.

Probably feel most sorry for him of the people directly involved. Maybe he should of resigned when he felt his concerns were not adequately addressed but he has served the club for so long hard to give up on it so easily I guess. Hard to imagine being in his shoes and knowing exactly what you would have done.

 

[Nk29]

I honestly think its time that James Hird and his band of cronies man up and step down. I think that Bruce Reid's letter is particularly damning and that any sympathy the public had with them is no more. Sick of this now.

 

[OzRulesFootball]

Hoping sanity prevails and Hird realizes he was the guy a few weeks ago that said this all has to end soon. Time to pull the head in and show your ego and image is not all that matters here. Still time for him to probably take some craziness out of this situation. I'm expecting by tomorrow night he at the very least takes the weekend off or rest of the season as coach and lets things settle down. Seems like the AFL would be willing to give ground on taking two years draft picks off Essendon if they accept being removed from the remainder of this season once home and away is finished. That is a big let off if that was part of penalty speculated by some in press to be in the winds. Essendon only losing premiership points for this season would be best case scenario for them. As Hutchy said mid season, they should have jumped at that chance as least then all the drama cut clean at end of this season.

It would be an anti-climax though for Port and Carlton fighting out for 8th spot these remaining two rounds if Essendon removed from finals as we then don't have a big last round clash which would have been more interesting if the loser missed finals. I prefer we made it by winning our last two games and making 8th spot. Fizzer last round clash if Essendon get removed from finals race. Frustrating this saga effects whole league season.

 

[Goodie's Guns]

Anyone see Nathan Grima on Before the Game tonight ?? Gee he is a classic.

 

[OzRulesFootball]

Bugger! No Kruezer or Walker.

 

[Bomber18]

@Goodies

Yea!!! I saw him. He's amazing! Need to see him in more TV interviews