Position Midfielder Discussion

[Connoisseur]

My 125 ave was a slight exaggeration then Still very good numbers none the less.

L Neale:
2020:
RD1: Haw= 106 from 6
RD2: NM= 111.75 from 8
RD3: Adel= 99.17 from 6
RD4: Coll= 107 from 6
RD5: WB= 104.86 from 7
RD6: Syd= 83.8 from 5
(Since 2015)

 

[BlueNwhiteHoops]

L Neale:
2020:
RD1: Haw= 106 from 6
RD2: NM= 111.75 from 8
RD3: Adel= 99.17 from 6
RD4: Coll= 107 from 6
RD5: WB= 104.86 from 7
RD6: Syd= 83.8 from 5
(Since 2015)

Yep, upgrade target for me post R12, he plays a few teams he goes well against in rounds 22-23 I think, good for SC finals

EDIT: Also, while you are here muahahahha, can I get Fyfe's ave vs first 6-8 opponents this year from you, I kind of feel like you did this to yourself by been overly helpful, eheheh.

 

[Connoisseur]

Yep, upgrade target for me post R12, he plays a few teams he goes well against in rounds 22-23 I think, good for SC finals

EDIT: Also, while you are here muahahahha, can I get Fyfe's ave vs first 6-8 opponents this year from you, I kind of feel like you did this to yourself by been overly helpful, eheheh.

Becoming a recurring problem.

 

[Connoisseur]

Yep, upgrade target for me post R12, he plays a few teams he goes well against in rounds 22-23 I think, good for SC finals

EDIT: Also, while you are here muahahahha, can I get Fyfe's ave vs first 6-8 opponents this year from you, I kind of feel like you did this to yourself by been overly helpful, eheheh.

N Fyfe:
2020:
RD1: Ess: 110.13 from 8
RD2: Haw: 109.86 from 7
RD3: Melb: 114.5 from 8
RD4: GC: 138 from 7
RD5: NM: 134.09 from 11
RD6: Geel: 108.44 from 9
(Since 2011)

 

[BlueNwhiteHoops]

N Fyfe:
2020:
RD1: Ess: 110.13 from 8
RD2: Haw: 109.86 from 7
RD3: Melb: 114.5 from 8
RD4: GC: 138 from 7
RD5: NM: 134.09 from 11
RD6: Geel: 108.44 from 9
(Since 2011)

Dead set Legend. I would suggest all of us members chip in and buy you a slab of your favourite for all your pre-season efforts, but then we would have to buy the Professor and Rowsus a slab too and I bet Rowsus drinks that fancy European stuff so the costs could get quickly out of hand

 

[Connoisseur]

Dead set Legend. I would suggest all of us members chip in and buy you a slab of your favourite for all your pre-season efforts, but then we would have to buy the Professor and Rowsus a slab too and I bet Rowsus drinks that fancy European stuff so the costs could get quickly out of hand

We can all share the below, as long as you pay for shipping.
http://instagr.am/p/BTTk_GvDhbv/
https://mashable.com/2017/05/03/1000-pack-beer/

 

[Bermi]

Yep, upgrade target for me post R12, he plays a few teams he goes well against in rounds 22-23 I think, good for SC finals

EDIT: Also, while you are here muahahahha, can I get Fyfe's ave vs first 6-8 opponents this year from you, I kind of feel like you did this to yourself by been overly helpful, eheheh.

Is 'muahahahha' English or Transylvanian?

 

[Bermi]

Dead set Legend. I would suggest all of us members chip in and buy you a slab of your favourite for all your pre-season efforts, but then we would have to buy the Professor and Rowsus a slab too and I bet Rowsus drinks that fancy European stuff so the costs could get quickly out of hand

I think @Connoisseur would prefer ice cream

 

[Bermi]

Tom Mitchell only got a 15% discount for missing a whole year, I didn't know that, I assumed it was 30%. That reduces my thinking that he will make money, hmmm.

 

[Hondo]

Tom Mitchell only got a 15% discount for missing a whole year, I didn't know that, I assumed it was 30%. That reduces my thinking that he will make money, hmmm.

Upgrade target. We have other good options who haven’t missed a whole year that we can start instead while we watch how Titch goes.

 

[Santoz]

I am glad you approve ?

Was always starting Bont , Macrae looks like he won't drop too much in price (whereas other premium mids should) & from reading here and elsewhere Dunkley could be anything.

I think I saw a stat that they average 118 together which I am happy to take.

Banking on getting Danger cheaper and Oliver after his Bye.

Now got doubts on Cripps re his tagged average and non tagged average so thinking of buying some Jelly from the start and see how that ride goes.

That was only last season. All 3 x Dogs mids went at a combined average of 118 over 22 games each.

 

[Herbie66]

That was only last season. All 3 x Dogs mids went at a combined average of 118 over 22 games each.

You are only good as your last innings , so I will take those.

 

[aps1]

Bont/Macrae over Dunks is very easy for me. Dunk does not have a proven elite scoring history. From my understanding, the names of players that improved their average by 20ppg to beyond 110+ for the first time and then further improved their average the following season, include Gary Ablett and Dane Swan. Oliver is there too but he’s been an exception to every rule as well. More often than not a player regresses after a breakout season for whatever reason (injury, role change, opposition coach analysis).

To be fair, Bont does not have proven elite scoring either, but does have a consistent 105+ base.

I get what you are saying about the 20ppg/110+ trend, and while very few do increase their average the following year (Libba is another to break it), there are quite a few that go close to matching their previous years average. Then again, what was the trend about ruckmen not backing up premium scores year to year....

I think I prefer Bont as well, and that may be going with my heart over my head (he will have an uber elite year at least once in his career), but i would expect both to be good selections.

 

[THCLT]

We know what Macrae & Bontempelli are capable of as SC players, maybe Bontempelli has yet to reach his full potential as he hasn't yet had a full season in the most lucrative role.

Similarly, we've yet to see Dunkley 'real' SC potential in a full time midfield role. I won't be surprise if he joins the Uber Premiums if the opportunity present in season 2020 as I believe he has all the hallmarks.

It's really interesting in that if we remove the uncertainty around their roles and assume that all 3 will be full time midfielder, then I would probably rank them as follows: Dunkley>Bontempelli>Macrae.

Most coaches feels 'safer' with Macrae as he's the one with the most assured midfield role of the 3.

 

[Bomber18]

To be fair, Bont does not have proven elite scoring either, but does have a consistent 105+ base.

I get what you are saying about the 20ppg/110+ trend, and while very few do increase their average the following year (Libba is another to break it), there are quite a few that go close to matching their previous years average. Then again, what was the trend about ruckmen not backing up premium scores year to year....

I think I prefer Bont as well, and that may be going with my heart over my head (he will have an uber elite year at least once in his career), but i would expect both to be good selections.

That is a fair point re Bont as well on elite scoring history. It’s more Macrae/Danger/Cripps/Oliver over Dunkley where that thinking applies. Perhaps there is an argument for Treloar/Oliver over both Dunkley/Bont with that line of thinking.

I also expect both Bont/Dunkley to be good selections (ie 110-115) but for those expecting Dunkley to average 120-125, he would have to follow Ablett/Swan progressions to do that. Dayne Beams did a 120+ season with 135+ for some part of it as well but never returned to those levels again (best was 115 avg after that).

 

[Bontempele]

I’ll start by saying that I don’t necessarily agree with the term “cheap ball” in general. Outside ball is at least, if not more important than inside ball in the modern game in my view. It’s hard to weigh them against each other as without the bulls the distributors are useless and vice versa.

Ball winning and disposal efficiency/retention rate alongside his ability to get to the right spots are why I rate him so highly. I’d also wager without looking at the stats that his score involvements and metres gained are both well above average for the typical in/outside mid.

If he can add a goal a game to his arsenal I’ll put my house on him for the Brownlow.

Yeah his score assists are amongst the best in the comp.

I agree that uncontested possessions are important, especially if you get them in the hands of a good kick like Macrae.

But in a close game, especially in a final, you really want guys who can power/speed through a few players like Dusty, Cripps, Selwood, Danger (though admittedly he has struggled in finals) or Fyfe.

If you’re relying on a handball receive, you might not get the opportunities to use your skills. Mitch Duncan and Josh Kelly spring to mind. Macrae wins more contested footy (especially loose ball gets) than these guys, so I would rate him higher, but I still think he lacks the power or pace to be a top 10 player.

 

[gutsroy]

Thanks @gutsroy , I have heard of 'Clarry' before but I couldn't remember who that was, hmmm. I referred to your 'Nickname Glossary' that I saved and found it to be 'Clayton Oliver' . I won't, in future, keep thanking you here when I use it again, I'll just send you a telepathetic thank you.

And while I'm here, thanks for your input @pizza safety, as I find your info helpful.

Excellent stuff, glad it does the job ?I just tried adding the gsheet links to the post in the gems thread but I think it's locked for editing by admins only. Will try again on a PC tonight, maybe it was a mobile thing (?)

 

[NT.Thunder]

We know what Macrae & Bontempelli are capable of as SC players, maybe Bontempelli has yet to reach his full potential as he hasn't yet had a full season in the most lucrative role.

Similarly, we've yet to see Dunkley 'real' SC potential in a full time midfield role. I won't be surprise if he joins the Uber Premiums if the opportunity present in season 2020 as I believe he has all the hallmarks.

It's really interesting in that if we remove the uncertainty around their roles and assume that all 3 will be full time midfielder, then I would probably rank them as follows: Dunkley>Bontempelli>Macrae.

Most coaches feels 'safer' with Macrae as he's the one with the most assured midfield role of the 3.

That is a fair point re Bont as well on elite scoring history. It’s more Macrae/Danger/Cripps/Oliver over Dunkley where that thinking applies. Perhaps there is an argument for Treloar/Oliver over both Dunkley/Bont with that line of thinking.

I also expect both Bont/Dunkley to be good selections (ie 110-115) but for those expecting Dunkley to average 120-125, he would have to follow Ablett/Swan progressions to do that. Dayne Beams did a 120+ season with 135+ for some part of it as well but never returned to those levels again (best was 115 avg after that).

Bont's problems is that he is just so good where ever he plays. Bont can play forward where as both Macrae and Dunkley from what I've seen are pure midfielders, taken some of the WBD coaching team longer to see this with Dunks but surely late last season shows this.

I can see Dunkley averaging 120-125 and to me he already has. Looking at his numbers played as a pure midfielder from second half of last season proves that to me, his numbers forward are irrelevent to me at this stage.

Macrae is Macrae, start him in the middle and just watch him rack the numbers up. I'm sure his SC scores continues to grow even whilst sitting on the bench.

 

[THCLT]

I can see Dunkley averaging 120-125 and to me he already has. Looking at his numbers played as a pure midfielder from second half of last season proves that to me, his numbers forward are irrelevent to me at this stage.

There's a phrase which I've picked up over the years (through my vast research) which I've seldom used but get a chance to do so here, it's coined 'watcher's advantage'. Stats and scores alone does not paint the full picture, watching players of interest in games provides you with a much greater insight into their numbers which ultimately helps you to differentiate whether something is sustainable or not.

I totally concur with you in that when I deliberate on Dunkley, it's only the games where I know he was playing midfield that counts. He has had 2 sustained run at it over the past 2 seasons, so hopefully the coaching sta*** now know where best to utilize this asset of theirs. Signs during the 1st Marsh game was exactly what I wanted to see.

 

[Bermi]

Excellent stuff, glad it does the job ?I just tried adding the gsheet links to the post in the gems thread but I think it's locked for editing by admins only. Will try again on a PC tonight, maybe it was a mobile thing (?)

Here you go, great idea with the gsheet, hadn't even thought of that, much better
Tidied up a couple and added one or two (RCD = 7kgs, knew it would come to me sooner or later, added ROB, RoMa and a couple more).
Second link is to a very basic price estimation / BE estimation tool. Had a much nicer one somewhere, but this one works ok for basic stuff.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1iNhLjTjgpl7W5jT7ic0E4q29elG_ONgOyxJjXD859Ng/edit?usp=sharing
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tycOq5Zl4bJLra-_xjbYwcvjRjyjDl3iLL-Asiv7oZU/edit?usp=sharing

I've copied and saved your gsheet, time well spent