Discussion 2021: Strategy, Team & Player Discussions
- Thread starter Darkie
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I'm picking Sydney because Horse is the coach and because we've got less than nothing in the ruck but a group of Mills, Heeney, Parker and Kennedy is as good a top 4 as there is going around and would be so well balanced inside and out, it just won't be the 4 because, again, Horse...
Hawthorn is right up there for the worst midfield, though it improves considerably if McEvoy rucks instead of Ceglar and they put Wingard in there and Mitchell is fit.
WC get saved by NicNat but with an injured Yeo they've got a remarkably mediocre midfield with Gaff the only consistently good player and Shuey the only real high impact guy but he really lacks consistency. Kelly could be good if he didn't have to dispose of it after all the good stuff.
Carlton are still weak but Williams and Walsh improving add a lot, ruck an issue though.
I'd say Richmond are actually one of the weakest also, Nank is combative but that's about it, Martin plays a lot forward and the guys behind him outside Prestia are average or worse level players. What they have is a good level of depth of average guys but more importantly a fitness and tactical advantage on teams.
I actually quite rate Essendon's midfield but Draper needs to make a big leap to be competitive at least. Shiel is a lot like Kelly, Merrett is a star and McGrath improved considerably last year and needs to keep going. I like Langford a lot because he's a good forward also (still think he's the underrated forward in SC), Caldwell has potential, Parish also improved a lot last year and Smith is a great goer. That's a really strong midfield, the problem is they've had absolutely nothing to kick to and kicking is a weakness in general so that just gets accentuated by the lack of decent targets.
Hawthorn is right up there for the worst midfield, though it improves considerably if McEvoy rucks instead of Ceglar and they put Wingard in there and Mitchell is fit.
WC get saved by NicNat but with an injured Yeo they've got a remarkably mediocre midfield with Gaff the only consistently good player and Shuey the only real high impact guy but he really lacks consistency. Kelly could be good if he didn't have to dispose of it after all the good stuff.
Carlton are still weak but Williams and Walsh improving add a lot, ruck an issue though.
I'd say Richmond are actually one of the weakest also, Nank is combative but that's about it, Martin plays a lot forward and the guys behind him outside Prestia are average or worse level players. What they have is a good level of depth of average guys but more importantly a fitness and tactical advantage on teams.
I actually quite rate Essendon's midfield but Draper needs to make a big leap to be competitive at least. Shiel is a lot like Kelly, Merrett is a star and McGrath improved considerably last year and needs to keep going. I like Langford a lot because he's a good forward also (still think he's the underrated forward in SC), Caldwell has potential, Parish also improved a lot last year and Smith is a great goer. That's a really strong midfield, the problem is they've had absolutely nothing to kick to and kicking is a weakness in general so that just gets accentuated by the lack of decent targets.
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Maybe Hawthorn while they are carrying Mitchell with a bung shoulder? 
They round out the bottom 6 from last year including all the clubs you listed above so gotta be them really.
They round out the bottom 6 from last year including all the clubs you listed above so gotta be them really.
It'd have to be Hawthorn. Parish to Mitchell & try to work Shiel onto Worpel to take advantage of a much up in explosiveness out of the stoppages. Merrett & O'Meara perhaps.
I reckon I could get hold of the Hawks
I reckon I could get hold of the Hawks
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Still reckon it opens up the possibility one week Dunkley spends 80% in the fwd 50 and scores 65 - giving you the chance to pick him up cheap. Dusty isn't immune to that rationale either but to me the difference is that Dusty is the best fwd-resting mid in the game (ever?) so prefer him as a starting pick. Given unlimited $s though I'd be starting both
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Interesting read...
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/01/the-fourth-year-players-ready-to-make-a-leap-after-going-pro/
The fourth-year players ready to make a leap after 'going pro'
Bob Murphy and Andy Maher will be paying close attention to the 2017 National Draft this year and the league’s fourth-year players in general.
The SEN Drive hosts are fascinated by fourth-year players and whether there is a natural leap after three years in the system.
The former Western Bulldogs captain went through some examples of players who showed promising signs in their first three years before ‘going pro’ in year four.
“Lance Franklin in his third year kicked 70 goals and announced himself as a prodigious talent,” Murphy told SEN’s Bob and Andy.
“In his fourth year he goes pro on our markings and kicks 118 goals. That’s the year we go, okay, that’s Buddy.
“Nick Riewoldt takes 200 marks for the first time in his fourth year.
“Simon Black goes from a 400-possession season to 600 in his fourth year and it’s across the board.
“Luke Hodge goes from an okay third year to 500 possessions in his fourth year. It’s a huge leap.
“It’s the same for Tim Watson, Lenny Hayes and Matthew Boyd. They go from being that talent to making it happen in that fourth year.”
Murphy also points to the Western Bulldogs’ 2016 premiership year and the influence fourth-year players had on that team's spike.
“Here’s how it can affect a club if they come through in the same year. The Bulldogs won it in 2016 and so the equivalent of that cluster is the 2012 draft and it is Jack Macrae, Jake Stringer, Nathan Hrovat, Lachie Hunter and Josh Prudden,” he said.
“That group came in at the same time and it changes your team and your footy club.
“Macrae would’ve had the most possessions for us that year, Stringer would’ve been the leading goal kicker and Hunter would’ve been just behind Macrae. They were central figures in that team.”
Maher pointed out Brisbane as one team with a cluster of players entering their fourth season in 2021.
“If you look at the group of players who sit in this category club by club, there’s one club that jumps off the page at you and it’s Brisbane,” he said.
“Listen to this group of players. Imagine if four of the six of this group do something like a couple of the players you’ve mentioned have done.
“These are the players going into their fourth season: Cam Rayner, Zac Bailey, Brandon Starcevich, Connor Ballenden, Jack Payne – who insiders at Brisbane tell you is ready to be a real player and Oscar McInerney.
“That’s six players who have already shown to various degrees some capability.”
Murphy added: “And it does fit with a few of those names where people listening would say ‘yeah I probably would mark this year as the year to mark Cam Rayner a little harsher’”.
West Coast is another team with a talented group of fourth-year players this season.
“The other one that jumps off the page is that West Coast Eagles group. We’ve already mentioned Tim Kelly, he goes into his fourth season, but obviously came in mature age,” he said.
“Zac Langdon arrives at the club from the Giants, Jarrod Brander, they’re waiting for him, Oscar Allen, Liam Ryan, Brayden Ainsworth and Jack Petruccelle who went backwards last year, but we’ve seen a bit from him.
“They get three or four of that group finding a distinctly better level, what an impact they could have on West Coast.”
Notable players from the 2017 National Draft Murphy and Maher are particularly interested in this season: Tim Kelly, Liam Ryan, Oscar Allen, Hunter Clark, Aaron Naughton, Rowan Marshall, Adam Cerra, Andrew Brayshaw, James Worpel, Noah Balta, Jaidyn Stephenson and Cam Rayner.
Others drafted in 2017 include: Paddy Dow, Luke Davies-Uniacke, Nick Coffield, Darcy Fogarty, Ed Richards, Jack Higgins, Wil Powell, Tom De Koning, Tom McCartin, Charlie Constable, Kane Farrell, Gryan Miers and Liam Baker.
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03/01/the-fourth-year-players-ready-to-make-a-leap-after-going-pro/
The fourth-year players ready to make a leap after 'going pro'
Bob Murphy and Andy Maher will be paying close attention to the 2017 National Draft this year and the league’s fourth-year players in general.
The SEN Drive hosts are fascinated by fourth-year players and whether there is a natural leap after three years in the system.
The former Western Bulldogs captain went through some examples of players who showed promising signs in their first three years before ‘going pro’ in year four.
“Lance Franklin in his third year kicked 70 goals and announced himself as a prodigious talent,” Murphy told SEN’s Bob and Andy.
“In his fourth year he goes pro on our markings and kicks 118 goals. That’s the year we go, okay, that’s Buddy.
“Nick Riewoldt takes 200 marks for the first time in his fourth year.
“Simon Black goes from a 400-possession season to 600 in his fourth year and it’s across the board.
“Luke Hodge goes from an okay third year to 500 possessions in his fourth year. It’s a huge leap.
“It’s the same for Tim Watson, Lenny Hayes and Matthew Boyd. They go from being that talent to making it happen in that fourth year.”
Murphy also points to the Western Bulldogs’ 2016 premiership year and the influence fourth-year players had on that team's spike.
“Here’s how it can affect a club if they come through in the same year. The Bulldogs won it in 2016 and so the equivalent of that cluster is the 2012 draft and it is Jack Macrae, Jake Stringer, Nathan Hrovat, Lachie Hunter and Josh Prudden,” he said.
“That group came in at the same time and it changes your team and your footy club.
“Macrae would’ve had the most possessions for us that year, Stringer would’ve been the leading goal kicker and Hunter would’ve been just behind Macrae. They were central figures in that team.”
Maher pointed out Brisbane as one team with a cluster of players entering their fourth season in 2021.
“If you look at the group of players who sit in this category club by club, there’s one club that jumps off the page at you and it’s Brisbane,” he said.
“Listen to this group of players. Imagine if four of the six of this group do something like a couple of the players you’ve mentioned have done.
“These are the players going into their fourth season: Cam Rayner, Zac Bailey, Brandon Starcevich, Connor Ballenden, Jack Payne – who insiders at Brisbane tell you is ready to be a real player and Oscar McInerney.
“That’s six players who have already shown to various degrees some capability.”
Murphy added: “And it does fit with a few of those names where people listening would say ‘yeah I probably would mark this year as the year to mark Cam Rayner a little harsher’”.
West Coast is another team with a talented group of fourth-year players this season.
“The other one that jumps off the page is that West Coast Eagles group. We’ve already mentioned Tim Kelly, he goes into his fourth season, but obviously came in mature age,” he said.
“Zac Langdon arrives at the club from the Giants, Jarrod Brander, they’re waiting for him, Oscar Allen, Liam Ryan, Brayden Ainsworth and Jack Petruccelle who went backwards last year, but we’ve seen a bit from him.
“They get three or four of that group finding a distinctly better level, what an impact they could have on West Coast.”
Notable players from the 2017 National Draft Murphy and Maher are particularly interested in this season: Tim Kelly, Liam Ryan, Oscar Allen, Hunter Clark, Aaron Naughton, Rowan Marshall, Adam Cerra, Andrew Brayshaw, James Worpel, Noah Balta, Jaidyn Stephenson and Cam Rayner.
Others drafted in 2017 include: Paddy Dow, Luke Davies-Uniacke, Nick Coffield, Darcy Fogarty, Ed Richards, Jack Higgins, Wil Powell, Tom De Koning, Tom McCartin, Charlie Constable, Kane Farrell, Gryan Miers and Liam Baker.
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Don't have the guts to pick a mid breakout but Worpel would be the guy i'd be going for. Seems to be getting slept on amongst all the talk with Rowell, Taranto and Simpkin with that pick in the 450 - 500k range. Already had a full season in the high 90s, won't play anywhere but pure mid. Can see him going a full year at 105+ which is adequate for M8.