Discussion 2021: AFL Pre-Season Practice Matches & AAMI Community Series Discussion

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My simplified logic for currently not selecting Taranto:

Taranto is underpriced at $453,700 and expected to make $100,000 profit, that is my biggest lure to getting him in. But at that price, if selecting him, I would expect him to be a Keeper, so that $100,000 would not be a factor.
With all the 'ifs' about Taranto, I have my doubts that Taranto could be a top 10 Mid, so I'm not keen to trade him as a Keeper.

The only way I will select Taranto is if we are struggling to field low priced Rookies.
If we are struggling to find low priced rookies, I would hope there is someone between rookie price and $454k.

Better still, stacking defence and mids with all the premiums (including dpp fwds) feels a better strategy. My team currently is maxed out, 11 players in it that could all be in the fwd line. Any extra fwds, like Waterman, now leads to force ranking decisions.
 
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It's actually amazing but statistically he is. He goes at 58% which ranks 35th at the Giants with only Taranto, Greene, Coniglio and Hopper really below him who are all pretty well known for bad kicking. Dangerfield for comparison goes at 57% but he is a vastly more contested player. For the type of player Kelly is, which is a balanced midfielder, he's a particularly bad disposer of the ball. Basically he disposes at a rate similar to Oliver/Dangerfield heavily contested guys as opposed to at the 63% type range of the more balanced. In comparison a guy like Pendles is at 68% playing a similar role.

It totally fails the eye test as he has a genuinely brilliant kicking action and technique but the stats don't support the eye test at all in this situation. He looks like an elite kick and executes at a very poor level.
Wait did you say the whole Giants midfield can't kick? wow, I'm not selecting any of them lol, was considering Finlayson as a pod forward, but with that potential disposal into the forward line, what chance does he have, might explain Cameron to Geelong.
 
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It's actually amazing but statistically he is. He goes at 58% which ranks 35th at the Giants with only Taranto, Greene, Coniglio and Hopper really below him who are all pretty well known for bad kicking. Dangerfield for comparison goes at 57% but he is a vastly more contested player. For the type of player Kelly is, which is a balanced midfielder, he's a particularly bad disposer of the ball. Basically he disposes at a rate similar to Oliver/Dangerfield heavily contested guys as opposed to at the 63% type range of the more balanced. In comparison a guy like Pendles is at 68% playing a similar role.

It totally fails the eye test as he has a genuinely brilliant kicking action and technique but the stats don't support the eye test at all in this situation. He looks like an elite kick and executes at a very poor level.
So maybe it's not his kicking so much as his in-game decision making. Arguably more important than how good your kicking looks is how good you are at tracking them to a target - between players, while moving, while fatigued etc. :unsure:

And hence why against rubbish teams he scores double hundreds eh?
 
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If we are struggling to find low priced rookies, I would hope there is someone between rookie price and $454k.

Better still, stacking defence and mids with all the premiums (including dpp fwds) feels a better strategy. My team currently is maxed out, 11 players in it that could all be in the fwd line. Any extra fwds, like Waterman, now leads to force ranking decisions.
I was meaning, if Rookies are in short supply in Rd1, then I could swap a $658K Steele and a $123K non-playing Rookie with a $454K Taranto and a $319K Heppell, or a Hately.
Yeah, there are other strategies as well.
 
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exert.

We haven’t finalised our team yet but the likes of (Sam) De Koning and (Francis) Evans will be part of the discussions.”

A decision on the availability of Luke Dahlhaus will be left to closer to game time as he continues his recovery from a groin complaint.

Evans is one name who has seemingly come from the clouds this summer, although forward coach Corey Enright suggested after the hit out with the Magpies last week that he had been a victim of Covid affecting the VFL competition in 2020.


“We have been bullish on Francis and some of the things he can do,” Enright said.

“He probably had limited opportunities, particularly with last year and how the second-tier panned out.

“Some of those guys didn’t get the opportunity to put their hand up as much as we’d like. So, it’s great for us as a footy club that we’ve got these guys putting their hand up.”

Teams will be able to use up to 26 players across the course of the match on Saturday night.

There will still only be 22 players available at any one time, but four additional players can be brought in throughout various stages of the match at the discretion of clubs.
 
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Not only got 10,000 worded, got 10,000 worded on the Swans alone :LOL:

Melican - Really solid. As with McCartin that's a negative for SC purposes.

Lloyd - Preseason game. Biggest concern was absolutely the Dawson kick-ins, at Lloyd's price a 5% or 10% change is enormous and that factor is legit, Dawson is a much bigger and better kick and if he's there full time it's certainly going to present a challenge to Horse of whether he lets Lloyd keep racking it up at the cost of the team or lets Dawson do his thing and risk being attacking, I can just see him struggling with which one of those bad coaching choices he likes more... Otherwise he looked fine, didn't look any worse for wear for whatever the reason he missed the intra-club game.

Gulden - I wanted to save the best for last because, again, do we have a fap smiley! The comparison I hate more than any is the Cyril comparison for any small forward but... yeah I'm going there on this one. In the wet he looked like the only guy playing with a dry ball, he had multiple triple and quadruple tackle attempt/pressure plays, his decision making is absurd for a kid playing his first practice game at AFL level and he's got the pretty left foot as well. I'm not expecting Cyril numbers who was playing in a flag winning side compared to what is still probably a bottom 4 group with a coach who doesn't like scoring but he played a HF role, pushed through the middle of the ground and pretty much everything he did was good in this game. The only forwards who were on his level for us were Heeney and Papley, two AA level players, and, honestly, I thought he was better than either in this one, don't quote me on it but I think he set up all but one of our scoring shots in the 3rd, most with genuine class. Role says he's not an on-field rookie but I'm not sold on that at all based on this game. Very excited to see him in the next hitout to see what he can do but I might kill Horse myself if he's not in the team round 1. Just lock him in. If it sounds over the top, just consider that what I'm saying isn't even close to as gushing as Rampe was about him for the entire 3rd quarter in the commentary box, like he basically didn't talk about anything but how good Gulden is.


GWS - Their team seemed really young and like I'd have a disclaimer but when I go through the list the only guys missing were Davis, Whitfield, Preuss and Hogan, of whom two are KP players with no structural impact, one is the ruck and out long term and the other is genuinely important. Still probably a very good indicator of where the best 22 lies and that some of the names are relevant.

Hopper - Really solid. He's got noticeably more time in the contest than Coniglio and Taranto seem to. Just doesn't feel rushed. Still doesn't appear to be able to kick it consistently though. Isolated I'd like him as a pick to perhaps push to mid 100s but don't think he does this year because, we'll get to the reason...

Coniglio - Good role, played alright, looked fit. Definitely can score premium numbers and given I don't think anyone has basically thought about him compared to everyone else in their midfield, watch him be the answer to the GWS question but happy to miss him.

Greene - Deep forward, same as Heeney basically. If I felt a bit better about GWS I'd like him but too many durability/discipline concerns for not enough upside as a forward. Kind of guy who even if he averages 95 will probably cost the same or less than he does now. No midfield time indicators to me.

Bruhn - 158k mid probably puts him out of play but he did some really nice things. Phil Davis said that he's a strong game next week from a round 1 birth but it's hard to squeeze him in and I didn't see enough scoring potential in a lesser role to justify that premium in a good rookie group. Basically the guys with the premium are better and so are the cheaper guys mostly it seems. Worth watching and could be a solid downgrade option if he isn't there early.

Ash - Really solid but not spectacular. No kick-ins from what I saw, had a few periods where he waxed but reckon he probably had about 70 DT/SC and it felt like a decent game. Need to see a fair bit more next game.

Ward - Looks a lot fitter, actually rucked for a 10m period in the 4th quarter and was solid and Davis did talk of it being a genuine option in the real stuff. Seemed to be more of a wing role for him though, so not impacting some of the other names. I still think he's a chance to float across half back this year.

Green - My god he's good. He's like a mutant combination of Josh Kennedy and Clayton Oliver. He's the reason I couldn't pick Hopper, he's just a genuine class above their other guys in the clearances already, I have no idea how good his tank is but he looks noticeably fitter/better shaped this season. He went head to head with Kennedy/Parker/Mills and managed to beat them far more often than a 2nd year kid should and those 3 are contested bulls so it's saying something, there's only a handful of midfielders in the league of their size and strength in the clearance and he more than matched them. I don't know if he does enough cheap stuff to go premium this year, that's the knock, he'd be going down the pure contested animal path and that generally falls a bit short but he's a special player, definitely got Brownlow potential if he continues to develop.

Cumming - He took almost every kick-in, a couple where other players gave it to him instead of just going themselves. He was actually good in general. Such an awkward price but he looked to be the main rebounder for the Giants. No Whitfield the big spanner in the works obviously but he was the pick of them. Interestingly Davis mentioned that Buntine, Cumming and Idun are battling for 2 spots and the way he spoke on Buntine it definitely felt like he was in the lead. Cumming was considerably better than either on attacking contributions. I have no idea if that implies Ash is ahead or behind them, fwiw. I saw enough that in a no rookie situation he's at least in play.

Taranto - He looked like 2019 Taranto. Midfield and resting forward, he was prolific, at a guess he would have been about 110 DT and probably about 95SC, honestly think he had two sideways backwards kicks and a soccer as his only kicks that went to teammates, really hard to judge in the wet but saw nothing to suggest the kicking has improved and yet I come away from the game with a big tick for anyone considering him. He looked really fit and he did exactly what you'd want outside his kicking which you already know about. Lot to like about his game though and I think anyone who was already liking him would have come away more certain about their choice. His role was good and unimpacted by Green, if anything it was Kelly who was pushed outside more often, of course that could also be preseason and change in the real stuff.

Haynes - If you were looking for something from him it could only be "don't pick me". Was watching as he's a guy who has a lot of value potential if he's the intercept and rebound guy, structurally there really wasn't any intercept so very hard to judge that but he clearly wasn't the rebound guy, he's one of the guys who gave up multiple kick-ins to Cummings for example.

Buntine - As mentioned above, sounds like he's leading the race over two fantasy relevant players though it's hard to see why from the game. He's pretty much their version of what Fox is for Sydney, as a fan you'd rather the kids who have potential over the boring team man but coaches tend to love those guys.

Kelly - As mentioned, he seemed to be very outside, mostly wing. He did some really nice things, was noticeably cleaner than most and was basically Kelly as you'd expect. Probably the most important thing in the game came from the commentary where it was highlighted a couple of times that he's had the best preseason of his career and it has been flawless which given his only real issue is durability and the strong relationship between the two is a very strong sign.

De Boer - Played almost entirely forward from what I could see and they did talk about him in that role and how he was decent in it at Freo. Pretty uncommon for there to be a tag in preseason so hard to read much out of it but if he is playing that role it could be another negative for Lloyd as Sydney face GWS in round 5 so if he did tag him that could be perfect timing. Impossible to plan for that though. Also means he obviously didn't impact that fragile midfield balance in this game.

Flynn - Was excellent, couple of beautiful hitouts and very good followup work. He showed nothing to me to suggest they should be playing Mumford for anything but injury. Perhaps even more reassuring was that Davis mentioned that they'd probably bring in Briggs to help out as a genuine 2nd ruck if they did need to do anything. He was rock solid and to me looks a very strong on-field rookie option that will, admittedly, need a solid exit plan for Preuss' return if we get an accurate window on that.

Buckley - Shame about his price, he looked really solid and gave a good contest but at 225k he offers nothing for SC, imo as can't see the job security or scoring potential to justify that premium, quite possibly would make no cash. Probably also goes out for Whitfield.
thanks for that comprehensive review, fantastic.
 
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Cracker review @wogitalia really appreciate anyone that puts in that sort of effort.

Ling is an interesting one to me, full pre season for the first time isn’t it? Ive quite liked the look of him in the limited viewings we’ve had.

I’m massive on Tom Green, firmly believe he is the best player from that draft and he’ll show us exactly that this year, has the makings of a truly elite SC prospect. Anyone considering Heppel should think about finding the extra money I reckon.
 
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Not only got 10,000 worded, got 10,000 worded on the Swans alone :LOL:

Melican - Really solid. As with McCartin that's a negative for SC purposes.

Lloyd - Preseason game. Biggest concern was absolutely the Dawson kick-ins, at Lloyd's price a 5% or 10% change is enormous and that factor is legit, Dawson is a much bigger and better kick and if he's there full time it's certainly going to present a challenge to Horse of whether he lets Lloyd keep racking it up at the cost of the team or lets Dawson do his thing and risk being attacking, I can just see him struggling with which one of those bad coaching choices he likes more... Otherwise he looked fine, didn't look any worse for wear for whatever the reason he missed the intra-club game.

Gulden - I wanted to save the best for last because, again, do we have a fap smiley! The comparison I hate more than any is the Cyril comparison for any small forward but... yeah I'm going there on this one. In the wet he looked like the only guy playing with a dry ball, he had multiple triple and quadruple tackle attempt/pressure plays, his decision making is absurd for a kid playing his first practice game at AFL level and he's got the pretty left foot as well. I'm not expecting Cyril numbers who was playing in a flag winning side compared to what is still probably a bottom 4 group with a coach who doesn't like scoring but he played a HF role, pushed through the middle of the ground and pretty much everything he did was good in this game. The only forwards who were on his level for us were Heeney and Papley, two AA level players, and, honestly, I thought he was better than either in this one, don't quote me on it but I think he set up all but one of our scoring shots in the 3rd, most with genuine class. Role says he's not an on-field rookie but I'm not sold on that at all based on this game. Very excited to see him in the next hitout to see what he can do but I might kill Horse myself if he's not in the team round 1. Just lock him in. If it sounds over the top, just consider that what I'm saying isn't even close to as gushing as Rampe was about him for the entire 3rd quarter in the commentary box, like he basically didn't talk about anything but how good Gulden is.


GWS - Their team seemed really young and like I'd have a disclaimer but when I go through the list the only guys missing were Davis, Whitfield, Preuss and Hogan, of whom two are KP players with no structural impact, one is the ruck and out long term and the other is genuinely important. Still probably a very good indicator of where the best 22 lies and that some of the names are relevant.

Hopper - Really solid. He's got noticeably more time in the contest than Coniglio and Taranto seem to. Just doesn't feel rushed. Still doesn't appear to be able to kick it consistently though. Isolated I'd like him as a pick to perhaps push to mid 100s but don't think he does this year because, we'll get to the reason...

Coniglio - Good role, played alright, looked fit. Definitely can score premium numbers and given I don't think anyone has basically thought about him compared to everyone else in their midfield, watch him be the answer to the GWS question but happy to miss him.

Greene - Deep forward, same as Heeney basically. If I felt a bit better about GWS I'd like him but too many durability/discipline concerns for not enough upside as a forward. Kind of guy who even if he averages 95 will probably cost the same or less than he does now. No midfield time indicators to me.

Bruhn - 158k mid probably puts him out of play but he did some really nice things. Phil Davis said that he's a strong game next week from a round 1 birth but it's hard to squeeze him in and I didn't see enough scoring potential in a lesser role to justify that premium in a good rookie group. Basically the guys with the premium are better and so are the cheaper guys mostly it seems. Worth watching and could be a solid downgrade option if he isn't there early.

Ash - Really solid but not spectacular. No kick-ins from what I saw, had a few periods where he waxed but reckon he probably had about 70 DT/SC and it felt like a decent game. Need to see a fair bit more next game.

Ward - Looks a lot fitter, actually rucked for a 10m period in the 4th quarter and was solid and Davis did talk of it being a genuine option in the real stuff. Seemed to be more of a wing role for him though, so not impacting some of the other names. I still think he's a chance to float across half back this year.

Green - My god he's good. He's like a mutant combination of Josh Kennedy and Clayton Oliver. He's the reason I couldn't pick Hopper, he's just a genuine class above their other guys in the clearances already, I have no idea how good his tank is but he looks noticeably fitter/better shaped this season. He went head to head with Kennedy/Parker/Mills and managed to beat them far more often than a 2nd year kid should and those 3 are contested bulls so it's saying something, there's only a handful of midfielders in the league of their size and strength in the clearance and he more than matched them. I don't know if he does enough cheap stuff to go premium this year, that's the knock, he'd be going down the pure contested animal path and that generally falls a bit short but he's a special player, definitely got Brownlow potential if he continues to develop.

Cumming - He took almost every kick-in, a couple where other players gave it to him instead of just going themselves. He was actually good in general. Such an awkward price but he looked to be the main rebounder for the Giants. No Whitfield the big spanner in the works obviously but he was the pick of them. Interestingly Davis mentioned that Buntine, Cumming and Idun are battling for 2 spots and the way he spoke on Buntine it definitely felt like he was in the lead. Cumming was considerably better than either on attacking contributions. I have no idea if that implies Ash is ahead or behind them, fwiw. I saw enough that in a no rookie situation he's at least in play.

Taranto - He looked like 2019 Taranto. Midfield and resting forward, he was prolific, at a guess he would have been about 110 DT and probably about 95SC, honestly think he had two sideways backwards kicks and a soccer as his only kicks that went to teammates, really hard to judge in the wet but saw nothing to suggest the kicking has improved and yet I come away from the game with a big tick for anyone considering him. He looked really fit and he did exactly what you'd want outside his kicking which you already know about. Lot to like about his game though and I think anyone who was already liking him would have come away more certain about their choice. His role was good and unimpacted by Green, if anything it was Kelly who was pushed outside more often, of course that could also be preseason and change in the real stuff.

Haynes - If you were looking for something from him it could only be "don't pick me". Was watching as he's a guy who has a lot of value potential if he's the intercept and rebound guy, structurally there really wasn't any intercept so very hard to judge that but he clearly wasn't the rebound guy, he's one of the guys who gave up multiple kick-ins to Cummings for example.

Buntine - As mentioned above, sounds like he's leading the race over two fantasy relevant players though it's hard to see why from the game. He's pretty much their version of what Fox is for Sydney, as a fan you'd rather the kids who have potential over the boring team man but coaches tend to love those guys.

Kelly - As mentioned, he seemed to be very outside, mostly wing. He did some really nice things, was noticeably cleaner than most and was basically Kelly as you'd expect. Probably the most important thing in the game came from the commentary where it was highlighted a couple of times that he's had the best preseason of his career and it has been flawless which given his only real issue is durability and the strong relationship between the two is a very strong sign.

De Boer - Played almost entirely forward from what I could see and they did talk about him in that role and how he was decent in it at Freo. Pretty uncommon for there to be a tag in preseason so hard to read much out of it but if he is playing that role it could be another negative for Lloyd as Sydney face GWS in round 5 so if he did tag him that could be perfect timing. Impossible to plan for that though. Also means he obviously didn't impact that fragile midfield balance in this game.

Flynn - Was excellent, couple of beautiful hitouts and very good followup work. He showed nothing to me to suggest they should be playing Mumford for anything but injury. Perhaps even more reassuring was that Davis mentioned that they'd probably bring in Briggs to help out as a genuine 2nd ruck if they did need to do anything. He was rock solid and to me looks a very strong on-field rookie option that will, admittedly, need a solid exit plan for Preuss' return if we get an accurate window on that.

Buckley - Shame about his price, he looked really solid and gave a good contest but at 225k he offers nothing for SC, imo as can't see the job security or scoring potential to justify that premium, quite possibly would make no cash. Probably also goes out for Whitfield.
Soooo... Matt Flynn eh? Sure, it was only Hickey and Sinclair but how good did he really look?
 
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I was meaning, if Rookies are in short supply in Rd1, then I could swap a $658K Steele and a $123K non-playing Rookie with a $454K Taranto and a $319K Heppell, or a Hately.
Yeah, there are other strategies as well.
all good, I agree. My break glass in an emergency is Duggan. rather split in two (say a young and clark) a player I am not 100% certain is a premium. Only thing is it will take me back to 11 premium, not sure I have ever started that few.
 
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Cracker review @wogitalia really appreciate anyone that puts in that sort of effort.

Ling is an interesting one to me, full pre season for the first time isn’t it? Ive quite liked the look of him in the limited viewings we’ve had.

I’m massive on Tom Green, firmly believe he is the best player from that draft and he’ll show us exactly that this year, has the makings of a truly elite SC prospect. Anyone considering Heppel should think about finding the extra money I reckon.
I love Stephens for us long term and Rowell, Anderson and Serong all looked incredible last year but Green is certainly in the mix. It's one hell of a draft right now, especially when you consider how difficult last season was and they still produced what they did.

Ling I have really liked the look of. Has had all kinds of foot issues (achilles, turf toe, etc) that have basically either taken his preseasons or taken him out very early in the season, just always playing catchup but he was a first round pick, always says a lot for HBF as to what they can do, and he looks really fit right now. 160k a really awkward price as I can't say the JS is strong even if he does start round 1 but I do think scoring potential would be reasonable at least. Honestly, I hope there are better options than him but given the lack of alternatives right now it's just nice to have someone in play.


Soooo... Matt Flynn eh? Sure, it was only Hickey and Sinclair but how good did he really look?
I was really impressed. When he gets a clean tap at it his work was actually genuinely excellent. Now he's probably only going to get it a couple of times a game but he physically held his own against them, and they're both senior bodies. Realistically he's 5 or 6 odd years in the system and at the right age to make it. I saw nothing from him that suggests he can't match Ceglar/Pittonet last year ~75, which would be outstanding at his price, and honestly I thought he showed more follow-up skills than those two (probably would want to learning against Mummy or you get broken!), I wouldn't back a ROB/Jacobs type of breakout season getting opportunity but physically I don't see any reason he can't and he showed enough tricks that he should score very well. Honestly think anything under 75 would be a surprise and that he showed enough to suggest a Nank like mid-high 80s is very much in play. ROB would be the unlikely best case scenario. His big advantage is that he's got Green, Kelly, Coniglio and Hopper at his feet, Pittonet was better than his average until Cripps fell apart last year and then he endured a bit of a ruck-share.

Biggest concern with Flynn is that's he coming back from a major injury and could be managed, which means you need security to start him because Mumford is really on the list for that exact reason. Like I'd expect he plays 8/10 and could absolutely play 10/10 but I don't think you could reasonably plan for that so there has to be coverage and with the crappy game by game teams that's even harder.

I'm planning to start him right now if I can find the security, be it Treacy/Meek or McEvoy who is absolutely on my radar after his game.
 
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all good, I agree. My break glass in an emergency is Duggan. rather split in two (say a young and clark) a player I am not 100% certain is a premium. Only thing is it will take me back to 11 premium, not sure I have ever started that few.
I just counted my Premiums and I only have 11, hmmm. I wonder, if currently, 11 Premiums is what many SuperCoaches have?
I still have $260K in the bank, so I could swap a midpricer for another premium, depending if we will have enough playing Rookies though.
 
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I just counted my Premiums and I only have 11, hmmm. I wonder, if currently, 11 Premiums is what many SuperCoaches have?
I still have $260K in the bank, so I could swap a midpricer for another premium, depending if we will have enough playing Rookies though.
a lot also depends on your definition. Surprisingly the value of my premiums has gone up I little where my lowest priced one is Cripps at $523k, with the big 4 in there too and plenty of pricey rooks. However, I have 7 rooks on field and probably don't have as strong D6 (Cox)/ M8 (Gulden)/F6 (Henry, Rowe on bench) as others.

edit - Duggan is the 12th not Cripps
 
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a lot also depends on your definition. Surprisingly the value of my premiums has gone up I little where my lowest priced one is Cripps at $523k, with the big 4 in there too and plenty of pricey rooks. However, I have 7 rooks on field and probably don't have as strong D6 (Cox)/ M8 (Gulden)/F6 (Henry, Rowe on bench) as others.
I classify a Premium player as one that I expect will average at least: Def & Fwd 95, Mid 110 and Ruck (what ever Grundy and Gawn score :) ).
My lowest priced Premium is Def Luke McDonald $513K, but not sure if I will keep him, or upgrade him to Mills. If I do, then Cripps would be my lowest priced Premium.
I currently too have 7 Rooks, < $202K (Dow), on field and 4 Midpricers on field.
 
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Not only got 10,000 worded, got 10,000 worded on the Swans alone :LOL:

Melican - Really solid. As with McCartin that's a negative for SC purposes.

Lloyd - Preseason game. Biggest concern was absolutely the Dawson kick-ins, at Lloyd's price a 5% or 10% change is enormous and that factor is legit, Dawson is a much bigger and better kick and if he's there full time it's certainly going to present a challenge to Horse of whether he lets Lloyd keep racking it up at the cost of the team or lets Dawson do his thing and risk being attacking, I can just see him struggling with which one of those bad coaching choices he likes more... Otherwise he looked fine, didn't look any worse for wear for whatever the reason he missed the intra-club game.

Gulden - I wanted to save the best for last because, again, do we have a fap smiley! The comparison I hate more than any is the Cyril comparison for any small forward but... yeah I'm going there on this one. In the wet he looked like the only guy playing with a dry ball, he had multiple triple and quadruple tackle attempt/pressure plays, his decision making is absurd for a kid playing his first practice game at AFL level and he's got the pretty left foot as well. I'm not expecting Cyril numbers who was playing in a flag winning side compared to what is still probably a bottom 4 group with a coach who doesn't like scoring but he played a HF role, pushed through the middle of the ground and pretty much everything he did was good in this game. The only forwards who were on his level for us were Heeney and Papley, two AA level players, and, honestly, I thought he was better than either in this one, don't quote me on it but I think he set up all but one of our scoring shots in the 3rd, most with genuine class. Role says he's not an on-field rookie but I'm not sold on that at all based on this game. Very excited to see him in the next hitout to see what he can do but I might kill Horse myself if he's not in the team round 1. Just lock him in. If it sounds over the top, just consider that what I'm saying isn't even close to as gushing as Rampe was about him for the entire 3rd quarter in the commentary box, like he basically didn't talk about anything but how good Gulden is.


GWS - Their team seemed really young and like I'd have a disclaimer but when I go through the list the only guys missing were Davis, Whitfield, Preuss and Hogan, of whom two are KP players with no structural impact, one is the ruck and out long term and the other is genuinely important. Still probably a very good indicator of where the best 22 lies and that some of the names are relevant.

Hopper - Really solid. He's got noticeably more time in the contest than Coniglio and Taranto seem to. Just doesn't feel rushed. Still doesn't appear to be able to kick it consistently though. Isolated I'd like him as a pick to perhaps push to mid 100s but don't think he does this year because, we'll get to the reason...

Coniglio - Good role, played alright, looked fit. Definitely can score premium numbers and given I don't think anyone has basically thought about him compared to everyone else in their midfield, watch him be the answer to the GWS question but happy to miss him.

Greene - Deep forward, same as Heeney basically. If I felt a bit better about GWS I'd like him but too many durability/discipline concerns for not enough upside as a forward. Kind of guy who even if he averages 95 will probably cost the same or less than he does now. No midfield time indicators to me.

Bruhn - 158k mid probably puts him out of play but he did some really nice things. Phil Davis said that he's a strong game next week from a round 1 birth but it's hard to squeeze him in and I didn't see enough scoring potential in a lesser role to justify that premium in a good rookie group. Basically the guys with the premium are better and so are the cheaper guys mostly it seems. Worth watching and could be a solid downgrade option if he isn't there early.

Ash - Really solid but not spectacular. No kick-ins from what I saw, had a few periods where he waxed but reckon he probably had about 70 DT/SC and it felt like a decent game. Need to see a fair bit more next game.

Ward - Looks a lot fitter, actually rucked for a 10m period in the 4th quarter and was solid and Davis did talk of it being a genuine option in the real stuff. Seemed to be more of a wing role for him though, so not impacting some of the other names. I still think he's a chance to float across half back this year.

Green - My god he's good. He's like a mutant combination of Josh Kennedy and Clayton Oliver. He's the reason I couldn't pick Hopper, he's just a genuine class above their other guys in the clearances already, I have no idea how good his tank is but he looks noticeably fitter/better shaped this season. He went head to head with Kennedy/Parker/Mills and managed to beat them far more often than a 2nd year kid should and those 3 are contested bulls so it's saying something, there's only a handful of midfielders in the league of their size and strength in the clearance and he more than matched them. I don't know if he does enough cheap stuff to go premium this year, that's the knock, he'd be going down the pure contested animal path and that generally falls a bit short but he's a special player, definitely got Brownlow potential if he continues to develop.

Cumming - He took almost every kick-in, a couple where other players gave it to him instead of just going themselves. He was actually good in general. Such an awkward price but he looked to be the main rebounder for the Giants. No Whitfield the big spanner in the works obviously but he was the pick of them. Interestingly Davis mentioned that Buntine, Cumming and Idun are battling for 2 spots and the way he spoke on Buntine it definitely felt like he was in the lead. Cumming was considerably better than either on attacking contributions. I have no idea if that implies Ash is ahead or behind them, fwiw. I saw enough that in a no rookie situation he's at least in play.

Taranto - He looked like 2019 Taranto. Midfield and resting forward, he was prolific, at a guess he would have been about 110 DT and probably about 95SC, honestly think he had two sideways backwards kicks and a soccer as his only kicks that went to teammates, really hard to judge in the wet but saw nothing to suggest the kicking has improved and yet I come away from the game with a big tick for anyone considering him. He looked really fit and he did exactly what you'd want outside his kicking which you already know about. Lot to like about his game though and I think anyone who was already liking him would have come away more certain about their choice. His role was good and unimpacted by Green, if anything it was Kelly who was pushed outside more often, of course that could also be preseason and change in the real stuff.

Haynes - If you were looking for something from him it could only be "don't pick me". Was watching as he's a guy who has a lot of value potential if he's the intercept and rebound guy, structurally there really wasn't any intercept so very hard to judge that but he clearly wasn't the rebound guy, he's one of the guys who gave up multiple kick-ins to Cummings for example.

Buntine - As mentioned above, sounds like he's leading the race over two fantasy relevant players though it's hard to see why from the game. He's pretty much their version of what Fox is for Sydney, as a fan you'd rather the kids who have potential over the boring team man but coaches tend to love those guys.

Kelly - As mentioned, he seemed to be very outside, mostly wing. He did some really nice things, was noticeably cleaner than most and was basically Kelly as you'd expect. Probably the most important thing in the game came from the commentary where it was highlighted a couple of times that he's had the best preseason of his career and it has been flawless which given his only real issue is durability and the strong relationship between the two is a very strong sign.

De Boer - Played almost entirely forward from what I could see and they did talk about him in that role and how he was decent in it at Freo. Pretty uncommon for there to be a tag in preseason so hard to read much out of it but if he is playing that role it could be another negative for Lloyd as Sydney face GWS in round 5 so if he did tag him that could be perfect timing. Impossible to plan for that though. Also means he obviously didn't impact that fragile midfield balance in this game.

Flynn - Was excellent, couple of beautiful hitouts and very good followup work. He showed nothing to me to suggest they should be playing Mumford for anything but injury. Perhaps even more reassuring was that Davis mentioned that they'd probably bring in Briggs to help out as a genuine 2nd ruck if they did need to do anything. He was rock solid and to me looks a very strong on-field rookie option that will, admittedly, need a solid exit plan for Preuss' return if we get an accurate window on that.

Buckley - Shame about his price, he looked really solid and gave a good contest but at 225k he offers nothing for SC, imo as can't see the job security or scoring potential to justify that premium, quite possibly would make no cash. Probably also goes out for Whitfield.
Sensational Review. Still tempted by Green. And now the the next conversation, Lloyd or Mills.?
 
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I sorta watched the first 3 quarters of the Brisbane-GC game. The camera angle wasn't great and I couldn't pick some players out. Shoutout to the absolute plonker Suns staff or family member who spent the entire first half screaming at the umps and calling for 50s despite GC getting a free every couple of minutes. I didn't know it was possible to be so invested in a practice game.

The Suns got absolutely smashed in the first quarter and their midfield was a complete non factor, the Lions mids bullied them. It's hard to read too much into Lions midfield performances because they rotated so much. Neale, Bailey, Rayner, McCluggage, Berry, Lyons, McCarthy and Mathieson all lined up at centre bounces. Neale aside, it's very hard to pick which Lions mid is most likely to take the next step scoring wise. Berry, Rayner and Bailey are all potentially too versatile for their own good SC wise, while McCluggage is at least settled as the 'inside' winger and would only need some guaranteed mid time to turn him into an attractive option.

Once again I didn't notice the stand rule having a huge impact on ball movement. The thing that did stand out was umpires not calling play on as soon as the player in possession moves off the line. I can't see how the change can work if that doesn't happen. At one point Daniher was able to mark outside 50, wheel around and kick a goal unopposed because the GC player on the mark couldn't move.

My takes on a few players:

Brisbane
Ely Smith- lined up on the outside wing mostly. Fairly quiet but looked solid when he was involved. If he repeats that performance it could be enough to earn him the first crack at Mitch Robinson's spot in the wing rotations.
Rayner- started at his fair share of centre bounces, wasn't quite as impressive as I'd expected based on reports. Seemed to disappear out of the game when not in the midfield and wasn't always clean. I liked Bailey's game better.
McCluggage- if he maintains the more even split between wing and midfield time he had in this game I'll be very tempted to pick him.
Berry- played a somewhat peripheral half forward/wing/3rd string midfield role, probably because he had a shoulder scare a while ago and missed a few weeks of contact training. I'm not picking him as a big improver in SC this season, he goes through too many periods when he's playing sore and his numbers suffer.
Bailey- I saw him listed at 7 CBAs, I could've sworn it was more than that. Even though his kicks didn't always hit the target, he used his pace around the contest really well and seemed to get plenty of the ball.
Rich- there's a small chance he could have a big year SC wise, most likely to end up slightly under what a long list of other premium defenders are capable of. At this point in his career he's a better player than almost all of them, it just won't always translate to SC.
Madden- I only noticed him with the ball about once, I'll blame the camera for that. We'll have to see if he plays again next week.
Daniher- could've easily kicked 10, didn't take many ruck contests as Fullarton mostly rotated off the bench as the 2nd ruck.
Neale- showed no signs of an interrupted pre-season
Zorko- mostly forward, better to watch as a potential upgrade target
Lyons- mostly very quiet, some wing and midfield time. I'd be very surprised if he's not back in his usual role come round 1.

GC
Rowell- a bit rusty and got manhandled by a couple of Lions mids. You'd want a more convincing showing next week to start him.
Lukosius- the role uncertainty is back. Spent a lot of time on the wing in the first quarter and a bit, was ok but relied heavily on frees to get a touch. Disappeared for a while (might've been forward) and then reappeared in the back half. More questions than answers out of that game.
Bowes- I like his role, especially if Lukosius won't always be in the back half. Even then though he'll need a lot of touches to overcome his tendency to be a bit dinky, he won't get huge points from most of his kicks or kick ins and his ceiling to date has been very low.
Brodie- kicked a couple of opportunistic goals, not sure where he sits in their midfield mix if he can convince Dew to pick him. His midfield time might've been inflated by Rowell and Swallow (I think) not playing in the 2nd half. His price is intriguing, as is some of his scoring history from 2019. Probably too many question marks over his role, his place in the side and his inexperience (he's still only played 20 games!).

I've probably missed a couple of Suns players of note, they're just so hard to be interested in as a side :sleep: The McKenna era might've been a trainwreck, but at least they played some exciting footy at times when Bennell and co were firing.
Wanted to do mine before reading yours so as to not be influenced. Think we came to pretty much the same position on most guys, agree entirely on Bailey seeming like he had more than that, maybe was just because he had so many clearance plays around the ground.
 
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Rusty Rowell performance cant have been a surprise, been a few guys start slow post shoulder surgery especially when they've been out of contact work for a large portion of the pre season, needs a big 2nd game for me to be even slightly interested, think he builds into the year at his age.
 
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I classify a Premium player as one that I expect will average at least: Def & Fwd 95, Mid 110 and Ruck (what ever Grundy and Gawn score :) ).
My lowest priced Premium is Def Luke McDonald $513K, but not sure if I will keep him, or upgrade him to Mills. If I do, then Cripps would be my lowest priced Premium.
I currently too have 7 Rooks, < $202K (Dow), on field and 4 Midpricers on field.
Running two team scenario's, one 11 premium and one 12 (incl Duggan). Problem is once I break Duggan to Young then I want to put money into Dow, Green rather than backline. Not sure I like the backline with Young and Cummings, just feels like one will fail.
 
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