Discussion 2021: AFL Pre-Season Practice Matches & AAMI Community Series Discussion

[pizza safety]

Taranto had a 112 DT season in his third season, Wines never got close to anything like that DT wise ! I think Wines is not that good a comparison. Taranto just needs to improve the 112 DT / 102 SC numbers into something that's close to 1:1.

It's early days in his career so who really knows,

Not saying he is Wines but could end up like Wines (with no high ceiling) because of the kind of player he is. They are both different as players and will have different DT:SC ratios as a consequence, he's seemingly fitter than wines and less contested.

He might be able to clean up his kicking but it is pretty poor if you watch him closely (I owned him for most of 2019) and he could increase his Contested Possession and clearance numbers. Just the way he is at the moment, he seems like a player who is innately more DT friendly.


This is all a bit simplistic because players can improve, it's just my take on him for the time being and I see some risk he doesn't get midfield time, he's not without downside either.

 

[Connoisseur]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365098070963183618

 

[pizza safety]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1365098070963183618

100% agree with this, the only players who are already premiums whose performance you should be evaluating are those returning from injury.

Role changes, breakout contenders, rookies and midpriced cash cows are the ones to look at.

 

[pizza safety]

Port v crows reserves playing now...will keep updating this post through the 2 games

Reserves Game

By my count each team has 12 AFL listed players

Crows - Berry, Pedlar, OÇonnor, Strachan, Thilthorpe, Himmelberg, Worrell, Newchurch, Hinge, Borlase, Gollant, Davis

Port - Mead, Williams, Sutcliffe, Lienert, Goldsack, Mayes, Schofield, Bugoyne, Lord, Woodcock, Hayes, Garner

Berry, Pedlar, O'Connor the starting mids ....Berry ($177,300 MID) by far the standout mid thus far he looks readier than pedlar who has been quieter and o'connor has issues with his ball use from what i have seen. Berry didn't play in Q3 reported a leg issue but he was back in Q4. May get a chance next week as the crows seniors have been well beaten in the mids today

Q1 comment....Thilthorpe ($202,800 RUC/FWD)has done some nice things but can't see any sc relevance from the key tall.....OK ignore my sc irrelevant comment went early there..... like insert the Anchorman GIF as this has escalated quickly! boy oh boy he has been good in q3 he has had it on a string! ..his skills for a 200cm guy on both side of the body on the run and he has had plenty of it this quarter easily BOG by a mile. If essendon fans are up and about regarding cox well i raise you the Filth! Based on this performance in the third quarter alone Thilthorpe must play round1 Finished with 4 goals.

Strachan $146,700 RUC/FWD is a capable big man if ROB is injured.

Ben Davis $191,800 FWD was taking kick ins and playing the backline quarterback role. He did his ankle in q1 so is likely done for the day. He likely doesn't play seniors but you never know what happens throughout the year and the take away is he will have a fantasy relevant role if he ever plays in the 1s.

Worrell ($123,900 DEF/FWD)....is AFL ready. I wouldn't hesitate in picking him as a downgrade option if he gets an opportunity this year which i think we will at some point.

Newchurch ($102,400 MID/FWD) has serious x factor but is very raw. I really hope this kid makes it as he will light up the adelaide oval if he does. They might chuck him a debut late in the season but unlikely SC relevant

Port team i am not as familiar with but i will have a go...

Youngsters Goldsack, Sutcliffe and Mayes in the port team haha

Boyd Woodcock has gone the peroxide hair and racked it up in the mids

one of Ports best early for mine has been son of crows legend Wayne Weideman. He isn't AFL listed but has been great at CHF.

Ollie Lord showed a bit in q 1 but he is clearly a developing key position player only

taj schofield finds the footy - i wouldn't expect he is near the round 1 team but he gets plenty of it.

Sam Hayes has a few years under his belt now and looked pretty good - i think Strachan shaded him though

dylan williams has kicked a classy goal but i haven't heard his name much - he seems permanently fwd.

burgoyne - there is some skills there. i doubt he plays be he certainly looks an exciting player

I started to notice Jackson Mead a bit more ass the game went with a much better second half but with Ports depth he hasn't got me excited about picking him as a downgrade option during the year with any confidence

General thoughts

Crows were up by 25 and port came home hard

Crows - 9.12 - 66
Port - 6.16 - 52

The difference between the AFL listed and top up players is generally very noticable. It is quite a scrappy game but there is no doubt everyone is having a crack.

This new kick in rule is going to see plenty of balls landing in the centre square...crows have noticebly been trying this today

Also many of the new 50m penalty rule infringements in the 2s...the young guys struggling to adjust more maybe?

SENIORS GAME

Q1 - Plenty of goals and an entertaining game but not a lot to excite from an SC perspective - certainly looks up a level after watching the practice game. Again i will update this as I go...

Q2 - port kick away....they are a class above the crows who have showed glimpses - the injury to Milera and the eye catching form of Butters the 2 take aways for me thus far.

Q3 - this is turning into a spanking which should lower the stocks of the crows SC mid price candidates like Sholl - he could be a good scorer in a top 4 team but doesn't find his own footy so he is unlikely to get enough of it

Milera - getting loads of CBAs and mid time but to be honest i don't think he has had a decent touch. I like his fantasy game much more as a half back and not liking what i see thus far. Not seen in Q2 -Matt Turner on twitter said he limped off and being reported as a patella injury... not good for the crows or for him as a starting pick this year. My guess is that Mitchell Hinge comes in like for like

Frampton and Tex - both look great - Crows looking much better forward of the footy this year when they get it in there - key tall backs though...urrrghghhhh poor young fellas (Butts and McAsey) are in for a tough year! Cameron and Hawkins could kick 15 in round one!

Laird and ROB - doing as expected

Rowe - looks lively enough and has a clear role even though he didn't really see it in the second half a port dominated - seems safe in the R1 team and safe for SC team benches as the crows early draw should see them more in the contest most weeks that they are against Port today.

Hately unseen in Q1 first CBA in Q2...showing some nice hands in the contest but largely underwhelming as an SC pick - seems a fantasy trap to me

Schoenberg - cheaper than hately and a fwd - a better SC pick if going a crows mid pricer (which I'm not) has showed more than any other young mid in this game for the crows and looks like no second year blues for him. he does play fwd a fair bit though but more mid time in the second half

Sholl - owns a wing spot this year - some nice touches in Q2 but as stated above - I don't think he sees enough of it as the crows will have the footy a lot less that their opposition in 2021

Sloane - plenty of mid time and looking fit, not sure if he will average his historical highs though i think that time may be gone

Nick Murray fighting for a list spot - on in Q2 - he is mature key defender albeit a bit undersized Butts/McAsey up against it and Talia injured going into round 1 - i expect he does enough to get a spot

Tex - SC irrelevant but look at my avatar - i love the great man! plenty of good footy in him yet

Port

Rozee - pure fwd - along with his foot concerns not sure he is relevant to start now - apparently he also went off limping in q2 (matt Turner on twitter) but he was back on field after this was reported. he still showed a bit up forward as port got on top - will feast on some lower teams this year

Butters - hmmmm looks pretty silky, lots of possessions in space and playing as mid (not sure on CBAs)- like his game....Ok really liking as the game goes on he is looking really good. Might being looking for a way to work him into my team soon he is the story of the day so far for me he is certainly going up the watchlist. I wish we could see him against some better opposition and Gray isn't playing so he may have got more mid time but......... again insert anchorman GIF.......he is now in my draft team!

Jones - apparently he is out there - the other mullet (DBJ) is the one getting the footy though....oh there he is - my god he is a man child! they have given him plenty of game time but I haven't seen anything to make me think he is our defensive rookie saviour this year - he did work into it a lot more in the second half. Might be starting 6 premo defenders at this rate!

Bergman - not seen in Q1 then came on the ground, looking like a player ready for afl - i would have thought he is more likely to play in the seniors than jones at this stage and he also worked into it more in the second half - will be on the fringe

Final score

Port 18.17 125

Crows 11.7 73

A dirty day for the crows with the injury to Milera a real sour note

I've had Butters in and out of my side for a while and am encouraged by what you've said. He has very good creativity, sets up plenty of scoring opportunities and seems like the kind of player who is very suited to Supercoach (a bit like Robbie Gray).

I'm banking on the fact that he's scored pretty well already as a forward so if he can get close to 50/50 forward-mid time that he can score 95+.

He's going to carry some risk as a pick but I don't like much of anything up forward and I like the idea of saving some money there and getting someone who can be top 8 as a forward this year.


One concern I have on him playing midfield is size and the volume of possessions he'll be able to get. He hasn't shown massive potential to accumulate and still looks pretty skinny.

 

[pizza safety]

61.9% career DE for Taranto. I think these things can improve with more maturity and development. If he turns 60% into 65-70% he's up there with most midfielders.

View attachment 26549

His kicking efficiency is a lot worse than his overall disposal efficiency.

The last three seasons he has kicked at 48.3%, 48.5% and 43.9%. https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Discover/CD_I998172/Taranto-Tim

The prospectus from 2020 also says he averaged just 1.0 player rating point per game from his ball use in 2019, ranked 333rd in the league.

 

[wogitalia]

Taranto had a 112 DT season in his third season, Wines never got close to anything like that DT wise ! I think Wines is not that good a comparison. Taranto just needs to improve the 112 DT / 102 SC numbers into something that's close to 1:1.

They're kind of polar opposites but the same end scenario with a common theme.

The common theme is they're both very bad kicks.

Other than that, Wines doesn't get enough cheaper touches on the spread. Taranto doesn't get enough quality touches on the inside.

61.9% career DE for Taranto. I think these things can improve with more maturity and development. If he turns 60% into 65-70% he's up there with most midfielders.

View attachment 26549

His kicking efficiency is a lot worse than his overall disposal efficiency.

The last three seasons he has kicked at 48.3%, 48.5% and 43.9%. https://www.afl.com.au/stats/stats-pro#/Discover/CD_I998172/Taranto-Tim

The prospectus from 2020 also says he averaged just 1.0 player rating point per game from his ball use in 2019, ranked 333rd in the league.

As the pizza man said, he's a woeful kick (his numbers are worse than basically all ruckmen in the league) and that is compounded by him thinking he's a good kick and having a very high K:HB ratio. He's actually decent by hand, good even.

The other major problem is his kicking is so bad it leads to a lot of clangers which just cripple him.

Disposal can change, a more inside role would almost certainly damage his DT but would almost certainly help his SC, more contested possessions and less chances to kick instead of handball. That first season when his DE% was actually decent he had a 1:1.1 K:HB ratio and basically his ratio has gone more kick oriented as his DE% has gone downhill.

I still don't dislike the pick, that raw DT ability can translate to SC but he's got so little scope for improvement in DT that realistically you're projecting him both getting back to that level but also fixing the ratio destroying aspects of his game. You'd want to see some improved kicking and decision making and a perfect role.

My biggest concern is still Tom Green, he's just a much better prospect and fit for the inside midfield role and should be their top priority and with Kelly, Coniglio and Hopper already there it's hard to see where the 110+ role sits. Let's say Coniglio and Hopper stay as mid 90s guys and Kelly stays as a 110+ guy, if Green does what he looks capable of and pushes towards the 100 range that's already one of the top midfields. Throw in Whitfield, De Boer (not taking points but minutes), Greene, Ward and anyone else pushing through and it's definitely congested.

Still think Taranto is that guy you'd pick and not even question as a forward but that extra level required in the mids makes it a tough sell. Kudos to anyone with the balls to pick him when it works though

 

[Blaze]

I've had Butters in and out of my side for a while and am encouraged by what you've said. He has very good creativity, sets up plenty of scoring opportunities and seems like the kind of player who is very suited to Supercoach (a bit like Robbie Gray).

I'm banking on the fact that he's scored pretty well already as a forward so if he can get close to 50/50 forward-mid time that he can score 95+.

He's going to carry some risk as a pick but I don't like much of anything up forward and I like the idea of saving some money there and getting someone who can be top 8 as a forward this year.


One concern I have on him playing midfield is size and the volume of possessions he'll be able to get. He hasn't shown massive potential to accumulate and still looks pretty skinny.

One thing he was doing was accumulating plus sixes getting around the ground and into space. I likely dont start him but if i see that against a good team early in the year i intend to jump on board very quickly

 

[Professor]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366122801069916161

 

[Professor]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366129470277492738

 

[Wheedus]

Is it just me or is that Brisbane strip the worst we've ever seen? Hoping it never sees the light of day again!

 

[PC]

Is it just me or is that Brisbane strip the worst we've ever seen? Hoping it never sees the light of day again!

Hawks power rangers was pretty bad...

 

[Nick T]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1366122801069916161

Only a few hopeful rookies probable at best and Zac Williams playing mid/fwd mix allowing Cripps to spend more time deep forward hmmm.

 

[warewolves]

They're kind of polar opposites but the same end scenario with a common theme.

The common theme is they're both very bad kicks.

Other than that, Wines doesn't get enough cheaper touches on the spread. Taranto doesn't get enough quality touches on the inside.






As the pizza man said, he's a woeful kick (his numbers are worse than basically all ruckmen in the league) and that is compounded by him thinking he's a good kick and having a very high K:HB ratio. He's actually decent by hand, good even.

The other major problem is his kicking is so bad it leads to a lot of clangers which just cripple him.

Disposal can change, a more inside role would almost certainly damage his DT but would almost certainly help his SC, more contested possessions and less chances to kick instead of handball. That first season when his DE% was actually decent he had a 1:1.1 K:HB ratio and basically his ratio has gone more kick oriented as his DE% has gone downhill.

I still don't dislike the pick, that raw DT ability can translate to SC but he's got so little scope for improvement in DT that realistically you're projecting him both getting back to that level but also fixing the ratio destroying aspects of his game. You'd want to see some improved kicking and decision making and a perfect role.

My biggest concern is still Tom Green, he's just a much better prospect and fit for the inside midfield role and should be their top priority and with Kelly, Coniglio and Hopper already there it's hard to see where the 110+ role sits. Let's say Coniglio and Hopper stay as mid 90s guys and Kelly stays as a 110+ guy, if Green does what he looks capable of and pushes towards the 100 range that's already one of the top midfields. Throw in Whitfield, De Boer (not taking points but minutes), Greene, Ward and anyone else pushing through and it's definitely congested.

Still think Taranto is that guy you'd pick and not even question as a forward but that extra level required in the mids makes it a tough sell. Kudos to anyone with the balls to pick him when it works though

I have to agree with a lot of the commentary on Taranto, he often does kick it very quickly and indiscriminately, so his SC scoring is constrained. He probably wouldn't be of much interest to me except that he is priced at about 85ppg. Even with his lousy DE%, I reckon he can get to about 102-105 and that's quite a nice haul of free points for someone at that level.

 

[Cricket98]

Does anyone know if video of Brisbane vs Suns is getting uploaded?

 

[Ben's Beasts]

Does anyone know if video of Brisbane vs Suns is getting uploaded?

Yes, today sometime. Will be available on the Lions website.

 

[McLovin]

They're kind of polar opposites but the same end scenario with a common theme.

The common theme is they're both very bad kicks.

Other than that, Wines doesn't get enough cheaper touches on the spread. Taranto doesn't get enough quality touches on the inside.






As the pizza man said, he's a woeful kick (his numbers are worse than basically all ruckmen in the league) and that is compounded by him thinking he's a good kick and having a very high K:HB ratio. He's actually decent by hand, good even.

The other major problem is his kicking is so bad it leads to a lot of clangers which just cripple him.

Disposal can change, a more inside role would almost certainly damage his DT but would almost certainly help his SC, more contested possessions and less chances to kick instead of handball. That first season when his DE% was actually decent he had a 1:1.1 K:HB ratio and basically his ratio has gone more kick oriented as his DE% has gone downhill.

I still don't dislike the pick, that raw DT ability can translate to SC but he's got so little scope for improvement in DT that realistically you're projecting him both getting back to that level but also fixing the ratio destroying aspects of his game. You'd want to see some improved kicking and decision making and a perfect role.

My biggest concern is still Tom Green, he's just a much better prospect and fit for the inside midfield role and should be their top priority and with Kelly, Coniglio and Hopper already there it's hard to see where the 110+ role sits. Let's say Coniglio and Hopper stay as mid 90s guys and Kelly stays as a 110+ guy, if Green does what he looks capable of and pushes towards the 100 range that's already one of the top midfields. Throw in Whitfield, De Boer (not taking points but minutes), Greene, Ward and anyone else pushing through and it's definitely congested.

Still think Taranto is that guy you'd pick and not even question as a forward but that extra level required in the mids makes it a tough sell. Kudos to anyone with the balls to pick him when it works though

There's always the chance Taranto could improve his kicking efficiency and take his scoring to the next level. The problem with that scenario is that midfielders don't seem to improve their kicking at GWS, or even after they leave. Coniglio prefers the rushed kick around the body on both sides, Adams, Shiel and Treloar still can't kick, Greene butchers it when he gets up around the midfield etc. Not only that, none of them appear to be aware of their limitations. At least Hopper and Green are. I can only assume kicking efficiency isn't a priority for Cameron.

 

[Ironhawk]

Is it just me or is that Brisbane strip the worst we've ever seen? Hoping it never sees the light of day again!

I honestly first thought of the Hawks diamond outfit, but most clubs have had some shockers.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ev...g/news-story/dbf987ecb779f3b88fe5de5f68860bcd

I remember most of those, but not the Sydney one (which is awful).

 

[Cricket98]

Does anyone know if video of Brisbane vs Suns is getting uploaded?

FYI Guys, its up on the Lions website now

 

[Wheedus]

I honestly first thought of the Hawks diamond outfit, but most clubs have had some shockers.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/ev...g/news-story/dbf987ecb779f3b88fe5de5f68860bcd

I remember most of those, but not the Sydney one (which is awful).

My eyes! My eyes! I can't see!

 

[scarfaceclaw]

One thing he was doing was accumulating plus sixes getting around the ground and into space. I likely dont start him but if i see that against a good team early in the year i intend to jump on board very quickly

I love watching Butters play. He was so good on the weekend, working hard and making solid decisions. I'm struggling to get him into my side at the moment but time will tell. From the weekend, the opposition was pretty poor and there was no Robbie Gray to share his role. See what happens, but Butters is so fun to watch regardless of supercoach.