Position 2021: Ruck Discussion

[Locus Levy Lunacy]

I am just getting all excited and wishing I knew the Round 2 ruck scores now 😀

It could all very well change again , in the meantime

Flynn ✓ (so far)

Meek still has the Darcy factor

Hunter has the Marshall/Ryder factor

Fullarton has the McStay factor , I essentially view him as a bench option

The worry for me is that ROB scored 55 , so it's hard to see Hunter/Meek getting 60+

Hickey/Martin COULD offer a bandaid solution IF they score well again in Round 2.

If that option is not available/taken then personally I think Meek at R2 (if he plays) could end up in a world of pain.

You are then probably waiting 6-8 before making upgrades , how much money are they making (if still playing) if they are scoring 40-50's

The other thing I have noticed is everyone seems just to focus on Gawn & Grundy (possibly too much) , especially considering Goldstein scored 109 , maybe the third G should be considered more.

But obviously I can't predict Round 2 Ruck scores so just need to sit tight and wait (and hopefully have a Round 3 ruck plan in place if need be , which could involve Dangermouse , but then if I don't trade him Round 2 , seems pointless trading him in Round 3)

Lycett with a 94 is interesting too.

I wouldn't worry too much about Darcy pushing Meek out in a hurry.

With their lack of available talls and further issues with Hamling and Pearce, Freo are desperate for anyone with some height. To me, it looks like they felt that Darcy wasn't even fit enough to play predominantly forward with some back up ruck time. He is not suddenly going to be able to ruck a full game solo.

They are every chance to pick both, but you would think that Meek would still do most of the round the ground ruckwork.

 

[Hondo]

Trading Grundy/Gawn to a Top 8 midfielder (ie. Macrae, Oliver, Tom Mitchell) and switching Fullarton to R3 seems like a no brainer if they fail again and Flynn performs. That way I can get one of those 50-point mid rookies off field and play Flynn instead.

I avoided Rowell and started Jordon, Berry, Warner etc. so I can probably afford to make the correction next week instead of using a trade on a rookie.

important here to remember Flynn played in wet conditions with more stoppages than the other games.
The mid rookies are around the 60 mark, Flynn could revert to 70-80 in a dry game.

 

[Herbie66]

I wouldn't worry too much about Darcy pushing Meek out in a hurry.

With their lack of available talls and further issues with Hamling and Pearce, Freo are desperate for anyone with some height. To me, it looks like they felt that Darcy wasn't even fit enough to play predominantly forward with some back up ruck time. He is not suddenly going to be able to ruck a full game solo.

They are every chance to pick both, but you would think that Meek would still do most of the round the ground ruckwork.

The amount of injuries they have , they might need to get Sandilands out of retirement 😀

I wonder why they flew Darcy and not left him home to give him a run in the WAFL practice game , I guess if something happened to Meek on match day though , Taberner would probably be the only ruck option.

I wonder if they have a WAFL practice game this weekend to give Darcy a hit out.

Meek's prospective scoring is the worry based off one game , at the moment he could be a liability at R2 (but a better option than Hunter)

 

[PC]

Ironically this is the reason a lot of us started with the rookie rucks - to lessen the rookie risk elsewhere. As Wogi said, the ruck rookies are not young first and second year kids, they are more seasoned bodies.

Despite having fortunately started Martin, Flynn and Meek (aptly named Fleemart ), I'm still very worried about the rucks in isolation moving forward. Where I hoped to gain overall, was keeping rookies off the field in other lines, and having a stronger bench i.e. minimising the risk of rubbish scores and having players dropped.

I (and I assume others with the rookie rucks) actually hope that rookies in general DO struggle with not having much footy in 2020, even if it does mean some pain in the rucks.

Appreciate your post, not sure I follow your logic.

I see much higher risk in poor JS rookie rucks than mid rookies which you can hide on a bench or dpp switch to another line. There is very little recourse if Meek/Flynn/Hunter blow up due to no dpp options and slim pickings in the way of midpricer replacements.

Another line can rejig easily enough for min cost, the rucks not so much, without a potentially inefficient and costly team restructure.

All that said, rookie rucks are more than 1 up atm - Gawn/Grundy spudded, Flynn scored out of the box, new rules look to disfavour ruck scoring and AFL coaches are considering role sharing and tactics changes (see also comments from Bucks).

The risk in other rookies lines are definitely in the backs (Sharp is sketchy, Kosi and Highmore ok), somewhat in the mids (some gems in Berry and Gulden), min in the fwds (plenty of options).

 

[Locus Levy Lunacy]

The amount of injuries they have , they might need to get Sandilands out of retirement 😀

I wonder why they flew Darcy and not left him home to give him a run in the WAFL practice game , I guess if something happened to Meek on match day though , Taberner would probably be the only ruck option.

I wonder if they have a WAFL practice game this weekend to give Darcy a hit out.

Meek's prospective scoring is the worry based off one game , at the moment he could be a liability at R2 (but a better option than Hunter)

He was up against the best ruck and seemed to play more of a negating role i.e. he wasn't going to win the hitouts but his job was to make it tough for Gawn to dictate with HTA's.

Longmuir would have been happy with his effort.

 

[Herbie66]

He was up against the best ruck and seemed to play more of a negating role i.e. he wasn't going to win the hitouts but his job was to make it tough for Gawn to dictate with HTA's.

Longmuir would have been happy with his effort.

Yes did his job football wise , can he now get more SC points each game please.

 

[Locus Levy Lunacy]

Appreciate your post, not sure I follow your logic.

I see much higher risk in poor JS rookie rucks than mid rookies which you can hide on a bench or dpp switch to another line. There is very little recourse if Meek/Flynn/Hunter blow up due to no dpp options and slim pickings in the way of midpricer replacements.

Another line can rejig easily enough for min cost, the rucks not so much, without a potentially inefficient and costly team restructure.

All that said, rookie rucks are more than 1 up atm - Gawn/Grundy spudded, Flynn scored out of the box, new rules look to disfavour ruck scoring and AFL coaches are considering role sharing and tactics changes (see also comments from Bucks).

The risk in other rookies lines are definitely in the backs (Sharp is sketchy, Kosi and Highmore ok), somewhat in the mids (some gems in Berry and Gulden), min in the fwds (plenty of options).

Fair enough, there probably isn't much logic.

As mentioned, the ruck rookies are more seasoned (Flynn and Meek 23ish, Hunter 28). There is potential backup on the horizon with Fullarton, Treacey, CCJ and B. Williams. I took Martin to mitigate against the complete carnage that could happen as you suggest. Hickey not too far away in price as another bail out option.

There are more options obviously on other lines, but I reckon after the top 8 or so, they fall away quickly. I can see a scenario where Sharp, Kosi, McNeil, Downie, Brockman, Cox, Cahill, Henry, Lazzarro, Bruhn, McDonald etc. are not doing what they need to.

Even some of the good ones like Powell, Gulden and Campbell are only first year kids, who theoretically will find the grind tougher than the older ruckmen.

It IS a risk, but there seems a higher number of escape routes than a normal year. The key is the number of weeks they can maintain it for.

 

[Yasi]

Appreciate your post, not sure I follow your logic.

I see much higher risk in poor JS rookie rucks than mid rookies which you can hide on a bench or dpp switch to another line. There is very little recourse if Meek/Flynn/Hunter blow up due to no dpp options and slim pickings in the way of midpricer replacements.

Another line can rejig easily enough for min cost, the rucks not so much, without a potentially inefficient and costly team restructure.

All that said, rookie rucks are more than 1 up atm - Gawn/Grundy spudded, Flynn scored out of the box, new rules look to disfavour ruck scoring and AFL coaches are considering role sharing and tactics changes (see also comments from Bucks).

The risk in other rookies lines are definitely in the backs (Sharp is sketchy, Kosi and Highmore ok), somewhat in the mids (some gems in Berry and Gulden), min in the fwds (plenty of options).

Another one here who is on the 3 rookie ruck ride. I'm concerned about what contingency options people are using in the event it goes horribly wrong.

An injury, a dropped rookie and/or general soreness can all strike very easily given the demands of the role. Even with everything going to plan there's not necessarily an easy upgrade path to premium targets, especially if we do end up with a clear top 2 sitting above the pack.

At present I have McEvoy sitting up back as my insurance. Don't have much expectation that he'll be a season keeper and so starting him really was a cost I'm paying for the dice roll of the 3 rookies.

In worse case he can be moved to R1 for some weeks to provide at least a warm body provided 1 of the 3 rookies stays on the deck. Best case he's a serviceable D6/R1 until his bye, when he's hopefully has held his value to make for a relatively painless upgrade to one of the top rucks.

Even though the 3 rookie rucks looked rather successful in week 1, based on the low overall ruck scoring and Flynn's monster, I would feel more comfortable at present with a clear avenue to getting a non rookie R1 by round 3/4 should another week or two's evidence tell a different story. Not sure that will be an easy task for many running the 3 rookie ruck strategy if needed.

I do think @Herbie66's discussion about targeting Martin is a smart play as seemingly safer play than staying with the 3 rookie ruck line and will possible look at this for week 3, even in my case with McEvoy as another safety.

Really enjoying the ruck discussion this year. Who'd have thought back in January when it was all just down to GG set and forget or Pruess!

 

[Herbie66]

Another one here who is on the 3 rookie ruck ride. I'm concerned about what contingency options people are using in the event it goes horribly wrong.

An injury, a dropped rookie and/or general soreness can all strike very easily given the demands of the role. Even with everything going to plan there's not necessarily an easy upgrade path to premium targets, especially if we do end up with a clear top 2 sitting above the pack.

At present I have McEvoy sitting up back as my insurance. Don't have much expectation that he'll be a season keeper and so starting him really was a cost I'm paying for the dice roll of the 3 rookies.

In worse case he can be moved to R1 for some weeks to provide at least a warm body provided 1 of the 3 rookies stays on the deck. Best case he's a serviceable D6/R1 until his bye, when he's hopefully has held his value to make for a relatively painless upgrade to one of the top rucks.

Even though the 2 rookie rucks looked rather successful in week 1, based on the low overall ruck scoring and Flynn's monster, I would feel more comfortable at present with a clear avenue to getting a non rookie R1 by round 3/4 should another week or two's evidence tell a different story. Not sure that will be an easy task for many running the 3 rookie ruck strategy if needed.

I do think @Herbie66's discussion about targeting Martin is a smart play as seemingly safer play than staying with the 3 rookie ruck line and will possible look at this for week 3, even in my case with McEvoy as another safety.

Really enjoying the ruck discussion this year. Who'd have thought back in January when it was all just down to GG set and forget or Pruess!

Starting McEvoy is/was a interesting option to as well.

I am probably stressing too much over Hunter & Meek but can just seeing it detailing my team already without a contingency plan in place.

Hopefully Meek can score a 60-65 ish (or more) Round 2 to ease my mind somewhat.

Still would like to get Flynn onfield , Meek R3.

R2 Hickey/Martin or McEvoy could very well work short term.

 

[Yasi]

Starting McEvoy is/was a interesting option to as well.

I am probably stressing too much over Hunter & Meek but can just seeing it detailing my team already without a contingency plan in place.

Hopefully Meek can score a 60-65 ish (or more) Round 2 to ease my mind somewhat.

Still would like to get Flynn onfield , Meek R3.

R2 Hickey/Martin or McEvoy could very well work short term.

Yes i’m not expecting Hunter to be around long and can see both Flynn and Meek getting rested at stages. Definitely a Hickey/Martin or DPP is smart plan.

 

[Herbie66]

Yes i’m not expecting Hunter to be around long and can see both Flynn and Meek getting rested at stages. Definitely a Hickey/Martin or DPP is smart plan.

Be nice to get some more information about Ryder & Marshall soon.

I do have Fullarton as well I could swap to R3 but he scored worse than Meek & Hunter.

Might put McEvoy on my list of possibilities , fortunately have Fantasia in defence so should be able to work out a 4 way DPP swing possibly.

 

[NT.Thunder]

So good to have set and forget rucks of Grawndy and not have to worry about ruck issues

 

[Shannon]

Be nice to get some more information about Ryder & Marshall soon.

I do have Fullarton as well I could swap to R3 but he scored worse than Meek & Hunter.

Might put McEvoy on my list of possibilities , fortunately have Fantasia in defence so should be able to work out a 4 way DPP swing possibly.

This is what Ratten said yesterday :-
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03...ratten-provides-injury-update-on-key-players/

The Saints’ win over the Giants was more impressive given they were missing King, Jones, Rowan Marshall, Paddy Ryder, Dan Hannebery, Brad Crouch and more.

Ratten said they will all return sooner rather than later.

“Then the next wave comes, it’s Hannebery, Marshall’s getting closer and Paddy (Ryder’s) done a fair bit of work and we’re in contact with Paddy pretty much ever day and going through his numbers running wise because he’s got some things he’s ticking off and we’ll get these players back fairly quick I think,” he said.

“It’ll be sort of one or two per week going forward I think.

“(Ryder’s) got some stuff that he’s sending through to our fitness staff and he’s running around 10 and 12km every second day and he’s been in the gym and he’s done a fair bit of work while he’s away.”

The Saints host the Demons at Marvel Stadium on Saturday night.

 

[Herbie66]

This is what Ratten said yesterday :-
https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/03...ratten-provides-injury-update-on-key-players/

The Saints’ win over the Giants was more impressive given they were missing King, Jones, Rowan Marshall, Paddy Ryder, Dan Hannebery, Brad Crouch and more.

Ratten said they will all return sooner rather than later.

“Then the next wave comes, it’s Hannebery, Marshall’s getting closer and Paddy (Ryder’s) done a fair bit of work and we’re in contact with Paddy pretty much ever day and going through his numbers running wise because he’s got some things he’s ticking off and we’ll get these players back fairly quick I think,” he said.

“It’ll be sort of one or two per week going forward I think.

“(Ryder’s) got some stuff that he’s sending through to our fitness staff and he’s running around 10 and 12km every second day and he’s been in the gym and he’s done a fair bit of work while he’s away.”

The Saints host the Demons at Marvel Stadium on Saturday night.

Cheers for that , sounds like Marshall might be back Round 3.

 

[PC]

So good to have rookie rucks and not watch Grawndy lose value every week

Fixed for you @NT.Thunder

 

[Connoisseur]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1374116622240157697

 

[dlanod]

Paul Hunter 33.3%*

* against a player also playing his first game.

 

[Gruffles]

Could be very easy to overload the forward line too early and miss out on a few very good rookies

Thankfully I put Fantasia in defence.

Depending on how Meek , Hunter , Hickey & S Martin score this week I could be moving Hunter on in Round 3 (I think he won't play the 6-8 games required) otherwise my ruck options will be very limited for 6-8 weeks.

I am missing Jordon & Warner (possibly McDonald , valid point about Franklin , how many games can he play though ?).

So might need to weigh up whether the mid rookies score better than the forward ones.

Could very well end up needing to field :-

1 + Heeney , Ziebell , McDonald , Warner , Rowe / Scott , Fullarton

so have to move 2 of Dunkley , Martin , Zorko to the mids

I am then 7 deep in the mids + Gulden

so Berry , Campbell , Powell are now sitting on my bench 🤔

+ I still want Fyfe as my 🍩 and have McNeil

based on that I may not need Jordon (or McDonald)

That's if Round 3 I upgrade Hunter (to Hickey/Martin) and get the best option out of Warner/McDonald/Jordon

Think that makes sense

Hunter was never going to make 6-8 games Herbie, Marshall has been listed as 3-5 weeks for a while and Ryder we could probably safely bet wouldn't be in before R3.
I personally was putting much more faith in Meek cementing a spot and Hunter getting to 4-5 games averaging 65-75.
With Hunter scoring so crap It would be a miracle if he plays 4 games gets 2 price rises and makes 100k. That is what I am now considering ''best case scenario''.

 

[Herbie66]

Hunter was never going to make 6-8 games Herbie, Marshall has been listed as 3-5 weeks for a while and Ryder we could probably safely bet wouldn't be in before R3.
I personally was putting much more faith in Meek cementing a spot and Hunter getting to 4-5 games averaging 65-75.
With Hunter scoring so crap It would be a miracle if he plays 4 games gets 2 price rises and makes 100k. That is what I am now considering ''best case scenario''.

I actually thought Hunter had the credentials to score better than the other 2 , so got that wrong , would have probably been better off starting Treacy at R3 as my donut instead of picking Fyfe , probably could have picked one of Jordon or Warner that way.

Mistake number 1 for the season.

Just need to work out the best options to correct him if and when he gets dropped.

 

[PC]

I actually thought Hunter had the credentials to score better than the other 2 , so got that wrong , would have probably been better off starting Treacy at R3 as my donut instead of picking Fyfe , probably could have picked one of Jordon or Warner that way.

Mistake number 1 for the season.

Just need to work out the best options to correct him if and when he gets dropped.

No, I think you have the right donut @Herbie66 . Need downgrades later and Treacy looks like a reasonable one.