Position SC 2021: Defender Discussion

Which ‘keepers’ are you planning on starting with?

  • Lloyd

    Votes: 36 30.8%
  • Ryan

    Votes: 5 4.3%
  • Laird

    Votes: 103 88.0%
  • Ridley

    Votes: 40 34.2%
  • Daniel

    Votes: 75 64.1%
  • Stewart

    Votes: 72 61.5%
  • Short

    Votes: 72 61.5%
  • Howe

    Votes: 7 6.0%
  • Docherty

    Votes: 20 17.1%
  • Other

    Votes: 15 12.8%

  • Total voters
    117
Joined
14 Oct 2019
Messages
1,182
Likes
4,279
AFL Club
Sydney
This has me leaning towards Short who also has the safety of being relatively popular, so it has less chance of burning me if it goes pear shaped.
I started Shorty in both AF and DT and he's obviously coming off quite a good week which always feel good to be bringing someone in, with their highest score of the season thus far. Considering that was also with Houli in the side is reassuring too, as I think that may have been the only doubt some coaches may have had in not starting him this season, over other options.

In terms of who is clearly the best selection I'm not sure we'll know that until the byes or beyond. There are around a dozen guys vying for top 6 DEF this season (by average) when you factor in that both Shannon Burn and $hitfield will be back at some point. :giggle:
 
Joined
18 Jul 2016
Messages
3,773
Likes
26,273
AFL Club
Sydney
I started Shorty in both AF and DT and he's obviously coming off quite a good week which always feel good to be bringing someone in, with their highest score of the season thus far. Considering that was also with Houli in the side is reassuring too, as I think that may have been the only doubt some coaches may have had in not starting him this season, over other options.

In terms of who is clearly the best selection I'm not sure we'll know that until the byes or beyond. There are around a dozen guys vying for top 6 DEF this season (by average) when you factor in that both Shannon Burn and $hitfield will be back at some point. :giggle:
On the flipside for Short, it's not often the Tigers are likely to get thoroughly beaten like that and have their opponent kick that badly (remember there were 5+ out on the full on top of the behinds) though admittedly he only took 5 of the kick-ins but he also received a few more as the target for the player who did take the kick-in.

I've got him and think he's a solid 100+ chance from here but I do think some regression to the mean with Houli back is definitely possible and also the Tigers will get stronger and that may not be good for him.
 
Joined
14 Oct 2019
Messages
1,182
Likes
4,279
AFL Club
Sydney
Is bowes a top 6-8 defender season end?
I think it's more than possible. He has the role to score extremely well in fantasy and is in excellent form right now. He's actually the clear leading DEF in DT formats by about 5ppg right now.

If he misses as a top 6 defender in SC it probably won't be much and I believe still represents quite a nice buy at about $500K. In only 5% of sides so many coaches obviously still require convincing, which I understand, given there isn't much premium history to go by. And there is massive competition at the position so you have plenty of choices there.

All I know is I'm rapt I brought him in for RDT last week. Almost jumped into the top 50 (from 90th) from really that move alone in terms of the extra points that trade netted in just one week. (y)
 
Last edited:
Joined
18 Jul 2016
Messages
3,773
Likes
26,273
AFL Club
Sydney
Is bowes a top 6-8 defender season end?
I think it's likely. Ticks multiple boxes. Been building towards for a couple of years. Taking kick-ins and the primary rebounder and has a natural talent to get space behind and sideways of the ball (call it Lloyding). Also has a bit of intercept skill though it's not going to prop up his scoring.

Team is solid enough to cause the ball to come in under a bit of pressure but nowhere near good enough to stop it coming in at high volume.

Right now I think you've got the following down back:

Likely 105+ Group

Ridley - Kick-ins, intercept marking and primary rebounder with last year as support of scoring history.

Lloyd - Kick-ins, primary rebound, elite seagulling with elite scoring history.

Mills - #1 midfielder in what looks to be a good team.

Laird - #1 midfielder in what looks to be a competitive team.

100-105 Group

Short - Kick-ins, primary rebounder, strong start, good history of being close. Houli factor is why I didn't put him above.

Bowes - Kick-ins, primary rebounder, very strong start, building history and some intercept skills. Lack of proven scoring the reason he's not above.

Houston - Strong start and has scored in all roles so far this year. His history of struggling when thrown around in roles the question mark here but there's little doubt the rule changes suit him.

Docherty - Kick-ins, primary rebounder, decent start with good scoring history. Saad cannibal and recent history the issue (and durability).

Stewart - Kick-ins, intercept role and primary rebounder though all shared to a greater extent than Ridley and solid history.

Potential 100+ Group

Rich - Been close before, rule changes suit, kick-ins and primary rebounder. Inconsistency historically is the issue but I personally would be he's going to do it this year.

Jiath - Very strong start. Complete unknown outside that. Personal bet would be against.

B. Smith - Has really clicked over the past couple of weeks to how much the rules suit him and reckon he could give it a shake (wouldn't back it).

C. Daniel - Perhaps not for the season at this point, but for the rest of the season definitely a good chance still. 2 straight years of doing it the real case for him.

Crisp - His midfield role probably just grew further. Uncertainty if that's actually a good thing for him though.

Sholl/Lever/Hardwick/Moore/Howard - The guys who are close right now but I think are all logical to fall back a bit but have to at least be mentioned.

Howe - Will build fitness as the season progresses after no preseason and has been averaging 95 anyway and was hurt significantly by the rain on the weekend to drop below. Strong upgrade target for mine and I think he probably does it. Durability a big issue though.

H. Clark - Seemed to get unsettled the past couple of weeks by the midfield and then non-midfield switch, settled back in nicely across half back, reckon the rule changes suit him very well also. Not backing him to do it but he's a chance still with his talent level.

Ryan - Have to mention after last year, will be watching closely, has looked out of shape so far to me but like Howe, that will improve as he stays fit. Not sure if injuries hurt or help at this point.

There's probably a couple of other guys who are chances (Hurn for example) that I haven't named but basically think it's a very strong group and I expect the D6 number to be around 105 this year, the rule changes have certainly aided the HB types so far and with two legit #1 midfielders in there it also pumps it up significantly.
 
Joined
18 Jul 2016
Messages
3,773
Likes
26,273
AFL Club
Sydney
I think it's more than possible. He has the role to score extremely well in fantasy and is excellent form right now. He's actually the clear leading DEF in DT formats by about 5ppg right now.

If he misses as a top 6 defender in SC it probably won't be much and I believe is still quite a nice buy at about $500K. In only 5% of sides so many coaches obviously still require convincing which I understand given there isn't much premium history to go by. And there is massive competition at the position so you have plenty of choices there.

All I know is I'm rapt I brought him in RDT last week. Almost jumped into the top 50 (from 90th) from that move alone. (y)
The other factor on that 5% is an awful lot of sides went with 5 premium defenders because the rookies forced it so not a lot of room to target him, especially with the start Jiath has made making him the obvious value play for those forced into hunting something down back.

Definitely could do worse.
 
Joined
15 Jan 2018
Messages
1,973
Likes
5,007
AFL Club
Richmond
I think it's likely. Ticks multiple boxes. Been building towards for a couple of years. Taking kick-ins and the primary rebounder and has a natural talent to get space behind and sideways of the ball (call it Lloyding). Also has a bit of intercept skill though it's not going to prop up his scoring.

Team is solid enough to cause the ball to come in under a bit of pressure but nowhere near good enough to stop it coming in at high volume.

Right now I think you've got the following down back:

Likely 105+ Group

Ridley - Kick-ins, intercept marking and primary rebounder with last year as support of scoring history.

Lloyd - Kick-ins, primary rebound, elite seagulling with elite scoring history.

Mills - #1 midfielder in what looks to be a good team.

Laird - #1 midfielder in what looks to be a competitive team.

100-105 Group

Short - Kick-ins, primary rebounder, strong start, good history of being close. Houli factor is why I didn't put him above.

Bowes - Kick-ins, primary rebounder, very strong start, building history and some intercept skills. Lack of proven scoring the reason he's not above.

Houston - Strong start and has scored in all roles so far this year. His history of struggling when thrown around in roles the question mark here but there's little doubt the rule changes suit him.

Docherty - Kick-ins, primary rebounder, decent start with good scoring history. Saad cannibal and recent history the issue (and durability).

Stewart - Kick-ins, intercept role and primary rebounder though all shared to a greater extent than Ridley and solid history.

Potential 100+ Group

Rich - Been close before, rule changes suit, kick-ins and primary rebounder. Inconsistency historically is the issue but I personally would be he's going to do it this year.

Jiath - Very strong start. Complete unknown outside that. Personal bet would be against.

B. Smith - Has really clicked over the past couple of weeks to how much the rules suit him and reckon he could give it a shake (wouldn't back it).

C. Daniel - Perhaps not for the season at this point, but for the rest of the season definitely a good chance still. 2 straight years of doing it the real case for him.

Crisp - His midfield role probably just grew further. Uncertainty if that's actually a good thing for him though.

Sholl/Lever/Hardwick/Moore/Howard - The guys who are close right now but I think are all logical to fall back a bit but have to at least be mentioned.

Howe - Will build fitness as the season progresses after no preseason and has been averaging 95 anyway and was hurt significantly by the rain on the weekend to drop below. Strong upgrade target for mine and I think he probably does it. Durability a big issue though.

H. Clark - Seemed to get unsettled the past couple of weeks by the midfield and then non-midfield switch, settled back in nicely across half back, reckon the rule changes suit him very well also. Not backing him to do it but he's a chance still with his talent level.

Ryan - Have to mention after last year, will be watching closely, has looked out of shape so far to me but like Howe, that will improve as he stays fit. Not sure if injuries hurt or help at this point.

There's probably a couple of other guys who are chances (Hurn for example) that I haven't named but basically think it's a very strong group and I expect the D6 number to be around 105 this year, the rule changes have certainly aided the HB types so far and with two legit #1 midfielders in there it also pumps it up significantly.
Great stuff
 
Joined
24 Jun 2013
Messages
1,379
Likes
4,687
AFL Club
West Coast
Lachlan Sholl's 160sc on the weekend is all the more remarkable given he had zero CBAs and zero kick ins.

At $397k and a BE -5, I'm tempted to do the mini downgrade from Daniel and ride the $50-70k cash generation. Hell, he might become a keeper.

M/D is a bonus

It might be easy to get sucked in but hang onto your trades for those 50/50 selections (think Fogarty from a week ago, only to score 50 this week) - the cash generation will only apply if you realistically trade Sholl out (and it’ll have cost you 2 trades). It’ll only take 1 week of a <80 score for you to regret the trade (and have to blow one to get rid of him)

His price is very awkward and personally I’d look in the 480-540k premium defender range (if you can afford it)
 
Joined
14 Oct 2019
Messages
1,182
Likes
4,279
AFL Club
Sydney
It might be easy to get sucked in but hang onto your trades for those 50/50 selections (think Fogarty from a week ago, only to score 50 this week) - the cash generation will only apply if you realistically trade Sholl out (and it’ll have cost you 2 trades). It’ll only take 1 week of a <80 score for you to regret the trade (and have to blow one to get rid of him)

His price is very awkward and personally I’d look in the 480-540k premium defender range (if you can afford it)
Yeah it would be a ballsy move in SC but it's hard not to be impressed by the kid even if he was just carving up the Roos. That's the only tonne to his name so far this season albeit a blood monster one so he's shown a mighty high ceiling.

I might be bringing him in AFL Fantasy this week although there are plenty of other viable options at that price point like Cumming, CJ, Lachie Dash etc. And of course AFL Fantasy is more of a stock market B/E game so you can chase these midpricers more in that format even after they already bolted.
 
Last edited:
Joined
12 Feb 2015
Messages
61
Likes
224
AFL Club
Richmond
I think it's likely. Ticks multiple boxes. Been building towards for a couple of years. Taking kick-ins and the primary rebounder and has a natural talent to get space behind and sideways of the ball (call it Lloyding). Also has a bit of intercept skill though it's not going to prop up his scoring.

Team is solid enough to cause the ball to come in under a bit of pressure but nowhere near good enough to stop it coming in at high volume.

Right now I think you've got the following down back:

Likely 105+ Group

Ridley - Kick-ins, intercept marking and primary rebounder with last year as support of scoring history.

Lloyd - Kick-ins, primary rebound, elite seagulling with elite scoring history.

Mills - #1 midfielder in what looks to be a good team.

Laird - #1 midfielder in what looks to be a competitive team.

100-105 Group

Short - Kick-ins, primary rebounder, strong start, good history of being close. Houli factor is why I didn't put him above.

Bowes - Kick-ins, primary rebounder, very strong start, building history and some intercept skills. Lack of proven scoring the reason he's not above.

Houston - Strong start and has scored in all roles so far this year. His history of struggling when thrown around in roles the question mark here but there's little doubt the rule changes suit him.

Docherty - Kick-ins, primary rebounder, decent start with good scoring history. Saad cannibal and recent history the issue (and durability).

Stewart - Kick-ins, intercept role and primary rebounder though all shared to a greater extent than Ridley and solid history.

Potential 100+ Group

Rich - Been close before, rule changes suit, kick-ins and primary rebounder. Inconsistency historically is the issue but I personally would be he's going to do it this year.

Jiath - Very strong start. Complete unknown outside that. Personal bet would be against.

B. Smith - Has really clicked over the past couple of weeks to how much the rules suit him and reckon he could give it a shake (wouldn't back it).

C. Daniel - Perhaps not for the season at this point, but for the rest of the season definitely a good chance still. 2 straight years of doing it the real case for him.

Crisp - His midfield role probably just grew further. Uncertainty if that's actually a good thing for him though.

Sholl/Lever/Hardwick/Moore/Howard - The guys who are close right now but I think are all logical to fall back a bit but have to at least be mentioned.

Howe - Will build fitness as the season progresses after no preseason and has been averaging 95 anyway and was hurt significantly by the rain on the weekend to drop below. Strong upgrade target for mine and I think he probably does it. Durability a big issue though.

H. Clark - Seemed to get unsettled the past couple of weeks by the midfield and then non-midfield switch, settled back in nicely across half back, reckon the rule changes suit him very well also. Not backing him to do it but he's a chance still with his talent level.

Ryan - Have to mention after last year, will be watching closely, has looked out of shape so far to me but like Howe, that will improve as he stays fit. Not sure if injuries hurt or help at this point.

There's probably a couple of other guys who are chances (Hurn for example) that I haven't named but basically think it's a very strong group and I expect the D6 number to be around 105 this year, the rule changes have certainly aided the HB types so far and with two legit #1 midfielders in there it also pumps it up significantly.
I’m probably shopping for a replacement for Houston (it looks like Ridley is probably a hold based on what we know so far). Already have Short, Stewart and Laird (and Ridley).

Lloyd looks the safe option but he’s no bargain and the change of rules make it look like multiple other backs might get close to him if not match him.

The two I’m interested in are Brodie Smith - seems to be suited by the new rules, and Brayden Maynard - thinking Howe going down might allow him to start scoring strongly again.
 
Joined
18 Jul 2016
Messages
3,773
Likes
26,273
AFL Club
Sydney
I’m probably shopping for a replacement for Houston (it looks like Ridley is probably a hold based on what we know so far). Already have Short, Stewart and Laird (and Ridley).

Lloyd looks the safe option but he’s no bargain and the change of rules make it look like multiple other backs might get close to him if not match him.

The two I’m interested in are Brodie Smith - seems to be suited by the new rules, and Brayden Maynard - thinking Howe going down might allow him to start scoring strongly again.
Luke Ryan probably the other worth a punt, looked a lot better today with Logue back in the side to free him to the floating intercept defender and was cutting off everything the Crows kicked to him (and it felt like they were kicking to him).

Lloyd at this point is about where I think he'll be, Dawson has taken a significant chunk of the kick-ins off him and Lloyd is not the priority he has been the past couple of years. Still think he's in the elite tier and a likely 105+ guy but he's roughly fair value right now.

Maynard I'd personally want to see another game, he was really solid against the Eagles but they've given up some pretty decent defender scores so far and his ratio requirements right now are still pretty extreme as he's just not finding much of the ball.

Smith is one I actually do believe in, I don't have the guts to do it myself but his role is pretty golden right now and he's taking the bulk of kick-ins but also pushing up to get the ball off the back.

Reckon all of Mills, Rich, Bowes and Lever are also presenting value buys also. 5 rounds is a pretty good sample, though both of Mills/Bowes had down weeks and probably can be got cheaper next week.

Basically I think for the most part the backline scoring has more or less fallen in line with where it's going to be for the season. There will be a couple of guys who jump in and possibly a couple that drop back.
 
Joined
12 Feb 2015
Messages
61
Likes
224
AFL Club
Richmond
Luke Ryan probably the other worth a punt, looked a lot better today with Logue back in the side to free him to the floating intercept defender and was cutting off everything the Crows kicked to him (and it felt like they were kicking to him).

Lloyd at this point is about where I think he'll be, Dawson has taken a significant chunk of the kick-ins off him and Lloyd is not the priority he has been the past couple of years. Still think he's in the elite tier and a likely 105+ guy but he's roughly fair value right now.

Maynard I'd personally want to see another game, he was really solid against the Eagles but they've given up some pretty decent defender scores so far and his ratio requirements right now are still pretty extreme as he's just not finding much of the ball.

Smith is one I actually do believe in, I don't have the guts to do it myself but his role is pretty golden right now and he's taking the bulk of kick-ins but also pushing up to get the ball off the back.

Reckon all of Mills, Rich, Bowes and Lever are also presenting value buys also. 5 rounds is a pretty good sample, though both of Mills/Bowes had down weeks and probably can be got cheaper next week.

Basically I think for the most part the backline scoring has more or less fallen in line with where it's going to be for the season. There will be a couple of guys who jump in and possibly a couple that drop back.
Good call re: Ryan. I’ll have to go back and have a look at him too now he’s at a bit of a discount from his starting price.

Damn shame about Houston. Would prefer not to have to make this decision right now but shoulders can have a very negative impact on SC scoring.
 
Joined
14 Oct 2019
Messages
1,182
Likes
4,279
AFL Club
Sydney
Good call re: Ryan. I’ll have to go back and have a look at him too now he’s at a bit of a discount from his starting price.

Damn shame about Houston. Would prefer not to have to make this decision right now but shoulders can have a very negative impact on SC scoring.
Yeah Houston was looking great ... and still is for non owners with that 48 in his next two price cycles. Listed as a "test" so hopefully gets up for those who already have him.

Will be monitoring him over his next few games and if he can get past that shoulder issue will be on my trade-in radar for sure at a sub $500K price tag.
 
Joined
14 Oct 2019
Messages
1,182
Likes
4,279
AFL Club
Sydney
Kick in stats for round 5:

Jack Ziebell with a round high of 14 kick ins, playing on in 13 of them.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.af...-success-every-clubs-cbas-kick-ins-for-r5/amp
It was just ridiculous but pure awesome sauce for his many owners. If this trend continues Dunkley will probably be the only player to topple him for top FWD this season. Doubt anyone thought that would be the case in the preseason.

I was just hoping to make a quick $100-150K from him like Daniher and then cut and run, not be the cornerstone of my entire FWD line. :LOL:
 
Last edited:
Joined
18 Jul 2016
Messages
3,773
Likes
26,273
AFL Club
Sydney
The reason for Ziebell going boom was the Hall injury but that will keep him out this week so at least another week of it I assume.

Long term Hall has the potential to be an issue however if he does steal a significant amount and continue the kick long plan as opposed to Ziebell who generally keeps it in the area for an extra touch or two like a true fantasy star.
 
Top