Position 2022: Midfield Discussion

[Vicwood]

I tend to agree with this @OnTopBar. I happen to have Lipinski in a keeper league, so have had some interest in his role, especially now that he’s landed at my AFL club.

I haven’t read anything indicating a defensive role. He and De Goey seem to have been rotating mid and forward, with Lipinski mainly mid. Comments I read a few months ago indicated he was the guy you wanted delivering the ball into the forward 50.

Agreed...

I think with Maynard training with the Midfield i can see him filling the role of DEF Midfield role.

Lipinski has a huge upside with a pure midfield role, I think he will have could easily get that 105 average to the byes.

Bulldogs was a difficult midfield to break into, he will now be unleased into a dominate role into the Pies Midfield. Looking over the Pies FWD List I cannot see him spending anytime FWD.

Pure Midfield.....

 

[Toothless Tigers]

What are people thoughts on the worlds highest paid VFL player......

Yes that's right....... Jared Polec - $246,900

Recycled from the bruise free scrapheap, now with a new lease of life

 

[Vicwood]

+1.

If he goes 110+ we’re laughing

Watch his ownership rise on the back of a good pre season game.

Its a long season.....

 

[Vicwood]

It's more that 4th best midfielder becomes 3rd best midfielder for them and also that 3rd best midfielder becoming 2nd hasn't shown much of the inside work that Walsh was doing by seasons end last year so there is a gap there as well.

On the flipside it's going to make it way harder to judge his actual role. If he does get a great role is it because Walsh is out or because it's his role? He's not really cheap enough to not make it to keeper level so it's a huge call to start him.

 

[Vicwood]

Think I'll wait and let Rowell prove he's actually over his injuries... and has improved before I go picking him up for a third season and get disappointed yet again, lol

Dew needs to be real strong here. Young Kid, potential superstar of the game coming of 2 serious injuries. Temptations will be to throw him back into the engine room where we have all seen what he can do. But I think Dew will need to do the right thing and play him in a similar role as to last year to protect his future, needs a injury fee season to build on.

 

[Zagbag]

Regarding those avoiding Rowell due to prior circumstances, the past needs to be put behind us and should not cloud decision making. No place for emotions in a data driven game.

I would argue that the past is the most important consideration in this game, bar none. Guesses or extrapolations are dangerous. For the most part, players do what they have done before.

I won’t be touching Rowell because it’s such an ugly price relative to what I think his realistic max output is.

But the more off-putting thing for me was watching him pretty closely in the second half of the season. He could not get a touch for love no money. Very outside, looked scared of the contest. It was so ugly.

 

[Connoisseur]

I would argue that the past is the most important consideration in this game, bar none. Guesses or extrapolations are dangerous. For the most part, players do what they have done before.

I won’t be touching Rowell because it’s such an ugly price relative to what I think his realistic max output is.

But the more off-putting thing for me was watching him pretty closely in the second half of the season. He could not get a touch for love no money. Very outside, looked scared of the contest. It was so ugly.

The context in my original post was in relation to coaches that seem to use prior ownership and unfortunate circumstances such as injury as the sole deciding factor for future seasons.

Agree with all of your points and preferably would like to see these being used more often rather than throwaway lines to explain ownership or non ownership of certain players.

 

[Locus Levy Lunacy]

Dew needs to be real strong here. Young Kid, potential superstar of the game coming of 2 serious injuries. Temptations will be to throw him back into the engine room where we have all seen what he can do. But I think Dew will need to do the right thing and play him in a similar role as to last year to protect his future, needs a injury fee season to build on.

Isn't that what the 11 games he played in the back half of last year were for? Reduced role to ease him back into it, then a full preseason (so far) and back to what he does best?

Dunkley got hurt, came back in a reduced role, scores accordingly and is underpriced as a result. Everyone picks him this year. I acknowledge he has an established history, but the injury effect is the same. Rowell has sustained 2 impact injuries which could have happened to anyone, but he is a massive risk?

Is there some sort of unwritten rule where it is ok if you are injured for one year, but you are broken if you are affected 2 years in a row? Gawn did 2 knees before he became what he is. Rowell showed in his first 4 and a quarter games that he is a freak. Averaging over 100 with a 6 thrown in there. Let's say he would have regressed to a Walsh-type average of high 80's. His game (and available role) is similiar to Oliver and look at the jump he made in his second year. The improvement in Miller helps Rowell not be the main opposition focus.

I think Rowell can easily go at a level where you can keep him for as long as you like. People too often equate points with dollars spent. Will Macrae automatically score better than Neale because he costs 160,000 more? Not based on 2020.

You can buy Rowell and Cripps for basically 800,000, which is the same as buying a so-called super premo and a rookie. Super premo goes at 120, rookie goes at 75 but is at risk of rests. You have locked in a minimum of 2 trades to upgrade the rookie. I would back Rowell and Cripps at full fitness to go at a minimum of 215 between them. No trades required unless you decide on a luxury one when it suits you (which the extra 5 trades helps), or they can be your last 2 positions upgraded if deemed necessary.

We all see it differently, but Rowell's price to some extent is irrelevant. He's cheap and he will be a gun if fit. "Awkward price" might apply to Deven Robertson or Jordan Clark in that price bracket, but not in my opinion to Rowell.

 

[Vicwood]

Isn't that what the 11 games he played in the back half of last year were for? Reduced role to ease him back into it, then a full preseason (so far) and back to what he does best?

Dunkley got hurt, came back in a reduced role, scores accordingly and is underpriced as a result. Everyone picks him this year. I acknowledge he has an established history, but the injury effect is the same. Rowell has sustained 2 impact injuries which could have happened to anyone, but he is a massive risk?

Is there some sort of unwritten rule where it is ok if you are injured for one year, but you are broken if you are affected 2 years in a row? Gawn did 2 knees before he became what he is. Rowell showed in his first 4 and a quarter games that he is a freak. Averaging over 100 with a 6 thrown in there. Let's say he would have regressed to a Walsh-type average of high 80's. His game (and available role) is similiar to Oliver and look at the jump he made in his second year. The improvement in Miller helps Rowell not be the main opposition focus.

I think Rowell can easily go at a level where you can keep him for as long as you like. People too often equate points with dollars spent. Will Macrae automatically score better than Neale because he costs 160,000 more? Not based on 2020.

You can buy Rowell and Cripps for basically 800,000, which is the same as buying a so-called super premo and a rookie. Super premo goes at 120, rookie goes at 75 but is at risk of rests. You have locked in a minimum of 2 trades to upgrade the rookie. I would back Rowell and Cripps at full fitness to go at a minimum of 215 between them. No trades required unless you decide on a luxury one when it suits you (which the extra 5 trades helps), or they can be your last 2 positions upgraded if deemed necessary.

We all see it differently, but Rowell's price to some extent is irrelevant. He's cheap and he will be a gun if fit. "Awkward price" might apply to Deven Robertson or Jordan Clark in that price bracket, but not in my opinion to Rowell.

Yes, I have rowel at M6.

Worth the risk. Will be happy with a 95 average to the byes.

 

[Zagbag]

You can buy Rowell and Cripps for basically 800,000, which is the same as buying a so-called super premo and a rookie. Super premo goes at 120, rookie goes at 75 but is at risk of rests. You have locked in a minimum of 2 trades to upgrade the rookie. I would back Rowell and Cripps at full fitness to go at a minimum of 215 between them. No trades required unless you decide on a luxury one when it suits you (which the extra 5 trades helps), or they can be your last 2 positions upgraded if deemed necessary.

We all see it differently, but Rowell's price to some extent is irrelevant. He's cheap and he will be a gun if fit. "Awkward price" might apply to Deven Robertson or Jordan Clark in that price bracket, but not in my opinion to Rowell.

Minimum of 215 for Cripps and Rowell?

As somone noted, Cripps had 2 scores over 100 last year. Rowell of course had 0.

Think you might need to readjust your expectations. 215 isn’t a realistic minimum for Clayton oliver and Touk Miller, let alone two blokes that averaged 80 and 70 last year.

 

[OnTopBar]

Isn't that what the 11 games he played in the back half of last year were for? Reduced role to ease him back into it, then a full preseason (so far) and back to what he does best?

Dunkley got hurt, came back in a reduced role, scores accordingly and is underpriced as a result. Everyone picks him this year. I acknowledge he has an established history, but the injury effect is the same. Rowell has sustained 2 impact injuries which could have happened to anyone, but he is a massive risk?

Is there some sort of unwritten rule where it is ok if you are injured for one year, but you are broken if you are affected 2 years in a row? Gawn did 2 knees before he became what he is. Rowell showed in his first 4 and a quarter games that he is a freak. Averaging over 100 with a 6 thrown in there. Let's say he would have regressed to a Walsh-type average of high 80's. His game (and available role) is similiar to Oliver and look at the jump he made in his second year. The improvement in Miller helps Rowell not be the main opposition focus.

I think Rowell can easily go at a level where you can keep him for as long as you like. People too often equate points with dollars spent. Will Macrae automatically score better than Neale because he costs 160,000 more? Not based on 2020.

You can buy Rowell and Cripps for basically 800,000, which is the same as buying a so-called super premo and a rookie. Super premo goes at 120, rookie goes at 75 but is at risk of rests. You have locked in a minimum of 2 trades to upgrade the rookie. I would back Rowell and Cripps at full fitness to go at a minimum of 215 between them. No trades required unless you decide on a luxury one when it suits you (which the extra 5 trades helps), or they can be your last 2 positions upgraded if deemed necessary.

We all see it differently, but Rowell's price to some extent is irrelevant. He's cheap and he will be a gun if fit. "Awkward price" might apply to Deven Robertson or Jordan Clark in that price bracket, but not in my opinion to Rowell.

I guess it comes down to where you draw the line at keeper level, for me it's 115 in the mids and if I'm picking a MP then there should be around 30pts upside in their scoring to generate enough cash to warrant their selection over a rookie and to make them a viable stepping stone.

So Cripps being priced at 84 would have to average 114, if you see him doing that then he'll be a great 'value' selection.

Rowell priced at 63 would have to average 93 to make him a viable selection. Personally, I have room for 1 MP in the mids and will go for Caldwell who'll only have to average 79 to achieve the same outcome.

I see Cripps and Rowell only being viable at the top end of expectations and would be factoring in 2 trades for each to upgrade.

 

[Herbie66]

10 mid eligible players this season averaged 115+ last season

 

[OnTopBar]

10 mid eligible players this season averaged 115+ last season

Hmmm.......Are you saying that 115 is a bit low for keeper level in the Mids?

 

[Locus Levy Lunacy]

Minimum of 215 for Cripps and Rowell?

As somone noted, Cripps had 2 scores over 100 last year. Rowell of course had 0.

Think you might need to readjust your expectations. 215 isn’t a realistic minimum for Clayton oliver and Touk Miller, let alone two blokes that averaged 80 and 70 last year.

I did say "I would back Rowell and Cripps at full fitness to go at a minimum of 215". There is the rider of being at full fitness (and maintaining it). Of course I am not saying they would average that as a minimum, come what may. Cripps has gone at 119 previously and is 26 years old. We all saw what Rowell did when fit at the start of his career.

The whole game should be about backing your gut, not following consensus opinion on the internet. This site is great because you can express alternative opinions and discuss them reasonably. My gut says they are in, unless I see something in the lead up that rings alarm bells. I reckon an expectation of 107-108 is not unreasonable for each of them. Potentially, they have both shown they could go at more than that.

 

[Locus Levy Lunacy]

I guess it comes down to where you draw the line at keeper level, for me it's 115 in the mids and if I'm picking a MP then there should be around 30pts upside in their scoring to generate enough cash to warrant their selection over a rookie and to make them a viable stepping stone.

So Cripps being priced at 84 would have to average 114, if you see him doing that then he'll be a great 'value' selection.

Rowell priced at 63 would have to average 93 to make him a viable selection. Personally, I have room for 1 MP in the mids and will go for Caldwell who'll only have to average 79 to achieve the same outcome.

I see Cripps and Rowell only being viable at the top end of expectations and would be factoring in 2 trades for each to upgrade.

You're highly unlikely to end up with 8 guys going 115-plus. When he has been fit Cripps has exceeded that 114 on 2 occasions.

If they occupy the positions that are 2 super premos in someone else's team, then I have a lot of money to invest elsewhere. I could end up with 2 extra keepers forward or back, which mitigates the slight loss of points I might cop in those 2 specific mid positions.

 

[RIAL]

10 mid eligible players this season averaged 115+ last season

Almost no point of even trying to pick a midfield breakout candidate anymore.

Started with Brayshaw last year who went from 101 > 107, which while solid, just doesn't cut it anymore.

Similarly for this year, I see plenty of reasons for Cerra to rise from 90 > 107/108, but even then does it make it a worthwhile pick if it means bleeding up to (115 - 108) x 22 = 154 points throughout the season? Maybe yes, maybe no, but it's getting increasingly more difficult to justify a breakout pick nowadays.

 

[Ben's Beasts]

My 2c on Rowell and Cripps are that both are likely to average between 90-100 this season if they remain fit. This would make Rowell an acceptable pick at his price as a stepping stone but Cripps is unlikely to be a successful pick at his price imo.

Kind of goes without saying but I think it's highly unlikely that Rowell scores anything like he did in those first few games anytime soon. Similarly, I think it's highly unlikely that Cripps ever gets close to his 2018-2019 scoring again.

 

[Ginty22]

I guess it comes down to where you draw the line at keeper level, for me it's 115 in the mids and if I'm picking a MP then there should be around 30pts upside in their scoring to generate enough cash to warrant their selection over a rookie and to make them a viable stepping stone.

So Cripps being priced at 84 would have to average 114, if you see him doing that then he'll be a great 'value' selection.

Rowell priced at 63 would have to average 93 to make him a viable selection. Personally, I have room for 1 MP in the mids and will go for Caldwell who'll only have to average 79 to achieve the same outcome.

I see Cripps and Rowell only being viable at the top end of expectations and would be factoring in 2 trades for each to upgrade.

Rowell is much more likely to average 93+ than Caldwell is to average 79+ imo
Both have a small sample size but Rowell has at least a stretch of elite scoring to back his selection, Caldwell has only surpassed 79 once in his career
Plus Rowell is second pick in Suns midfield, Caldwell is no guarantee to get 50% cbas or even close to that with Dons stronger midfield

In saying that I'm not starting Rowell or any other mid pricers in my midfield

 

[Pieman17]

I like Rowell and think he could average 100 this year but don’t see the value at his starting price with all the mid rookies we have. Daicos, JHF, Stephens, Hobbs, Ward, Erasmus etc look great on-field scoring options that will be had to pass up if they get named.

 

[McLovin]

The context in my original post was in relation to coaches that seem to use prior ownership and unfortunate circumstances such as injury as the sole deciding factor for future seasons.

Agree with all of your points and preferably would like to see these being used more often rather than throwaway lines to explain ownership or non ownership of certain players.

In Rowell's case I'd say the injuries are very relevant. While unfortunate, both his injuries can happen when a first/second year player with a very physical style of play gets a lot of attention from opponents. GC didn't do enough to protect Rowell, and he's not the first highly drafted next big thing midfielder they've let get beaten up too early in his career. Encouraging Greenwood to walk out the door doesn't exactly help either.