Discussion 2023: Rate My Team

[Feerits Elf]

people need to accept that this is a different Nat Fyfe for mine.

Why do people need to accept your opinion? That's a touch narcissistic!

So there weren't too many games I could see under Longmuir where Fyfe has been predominantly stationed in the forward 50. I'm disregarding the 2022 season because he was played deep forward due to injuries.

I suppose the closest I could find (>20% possessions in forward 50) were:

Rd 2 2020: 24 disposals, 4 marks (3 contested), 3 goals, 3 inside 50s, 5 clearances, 6 score involvements, 143 SC
Rd 3 2020: 23 disposals, 3 marks (2 contested), 1 goal, 3 inside 50s, 3 clearances, 6 score involvements, 166 SC
Rd 6 2020: 18 disposals, 1 mark (contested), 2 goals, nil inside 50s, 2 clearances, 4 score involvements, 84 SC
Rd 17 2020: 24 disposals, 7 marks (4 contested), nil goals, 2 inside 50s, 6 clearances, 6 score involvements, 140 SC
Rd 2 2021: 15 disposals, 7 marks (3 contested), 1 goal, 2 inside 50s, nil clearances, 8 score involvements, 92 SC
Rd 4 2021: 31 disposals, 3 marks (1 contested), 0 goals 6(!), 3 inside 50s, 6 clearances, 11 score involvements, 133 SC
Rd 8 2021: 27 disposals, 5 marks (2 contested), 1 goal, 3 inside 50s, 8 clearances, 10 score involvements, 122 SC
Rd 11 2021: 20 disposals, 3 marks (2 contested), 2 goals, nil inside 50s, 4 clearances, 9 score involvements, 99 SC
Rd 16 2021: 20 disposals, 3 marks (nil contested), nil goals, 3 inside 50s, 5 clearances, 6 score involvements, 72 SC

Longmuir is on record as saying Fyfe will have more of a mid-forward split in 2023 than he did in 2022 (because of the injuries last year) so that would suggest he'll get his share of midfield minutes. I wouldn't be concerned about him training as a forward, he's won 2 Brownlows as a mid so he doesn't really need to work on that as much as he does his forward craft. The way I see it he'll play as a third tall (lead-up) forward and run through the middle as an impact player. The 150 SC days might be over but in my view he's good for 85-105 with the occasional 120 thrown in to bump his average up to 97-100 before he inevitably breaks down in Rd 10. Depending on where the spike scores fall that would have him making $100k by the time the first new DPP forwards are announced.

There's also the very real possibility of him jagging a 140+ in the first 5 weeks (Freo have a very soft start to the season: Saints, Roos, Eagles, Crows, Suns), which would extremely painful to watch as a non-owner.

I do tend to overthink these things though so I could be completely wide of the mark.

 

[Shaunpro1]

Why do people need to accept your opinion? That's a touch narcissistic!

So there weren't too many games I could see under Longmuir where Fyfe has been predominantly stationed in the forward 50. I'm disregarding the 2022 season because he was played deep forward due to injuries.

I suppose the closest I could find (>20% possessions in forward 50) were:

Rd 2 2020: 24 disposals, 4 marks (3 contested), 3 goals, 3 inside 50s, 5 clearances, 6 score involvements, 143 SC
Rd 3 2020: 23 disposals, 3 marks (2 contested), 1 goal, 3 inside 50s, 3 clearances, 6 score involvements, 166 SC
Rd 6 2020: 18 disposals, 1 mark (contested), 2 goals, nil inside 50s, 2 clearances, 4 score involvements, 84 SC
Rd 17 2020: 24 disposals, 7 marks (4 contested), nil goals, 2 inside 50s, 6 clearances, 6 score involvements, 140 SC
Rd 2 2021: 15 disposals, 7 marks (3 contested), 1 goal, 2 inside 50s, nil clearances, 8 score involvements, 92 SC
Rd 4 2021: 31 disposals, 3 marks (1 contested), 0 goals 6(!), 3 inside 50s, 6 clearances, 11 score involvements, 133 SC
Rd 8 2021: 27 disposals, 5 marks (2 contested), 1 goal, 3 inside 50s, 8 clearances, 10 score involvements, 122 SC
Rd 11 2021: 20 disposals, 3 marks (2 contested), 2 goals, nil inside 50s, 4 clearances, 9 score involvements, 99 SC
Rd 16 2021: 20 disposals, 3 marks (nil contested), nil goals, 3 inside 50s, 5 clearances, 6 score involvements, 72 SC

Longmuir is on record as saying Fyfe will have more of a mid-forward split in 2023 than he did in 2022 (because of the injuries last year) so that would suggest he'll get his share of midfield minutes. I wouldn't be concerned about him training as a forward, he's won 2 Brownlows as a mid so he doesn't really need to work on that as much as he does his forward craft. The way I see it he'll play as a third tall (lead-up) forward and run through the middle as an impact player. The 150 SC days might be over but in my view he's good for 85-105 with the occasional 120 thrown in to bump his average up to 97-100 before he inevitably breaks down in Rd 10. Depending on where the spike scores fall that would have him making $100k by the time the first new DPP forwards are announced.

There's also the very real possibility of him jagging a 140+ in the first 5 weeks (Freo have a very soft start to the season: Saints, Roos, Eagles, Crows, Suns), which would extremely painful to watch as a non-owner.

I do tend to overthink these things though so I could be completely wide of the mark.

I just dont see how he scores unless he can kick bags and hes never been a great forward, started out of the goal square in both match sims to date so its not a high role where he can be involved in general play.

Always have an open mind in January but how much mid time is there truly going to be for a 31 year old thats been decimated by injury for years? Especially when they've got Brayshaw,Serong,O'Meara and Brodie who all can't really play anywhere but in the guts plus Erasmus and Johnson who are going to demand mid time.

 

[Juzzo]

Re Fyfe, is Tab up and running?

 

[Vicwood]

Why do people need to accept your opinion? That's a touch narcissistic!

So there weren't too many games I could see under Longmuir where Fyfe has been predominantly stationed in the forward 50. I'm disregarding the 2022 season because he was played deep forward due to injuries.

I suppose the closest I could find (>20% possessions in forward 50) were:

Rd 2 2020: 24 disposals, 4 marks (3 contested), 3 goals, 3 inside 50s, 5 clearances, 6 score involvements, 143 SC
Rd 3 2020: 23 disposals, 3 marks (2 contested), 1 goal, 3 inside 50s, 3 clearances, 6 score involvements, 166 SC
Rd 6 2020: 18 disposals, 1 mark (contested), 2 goals, nil inside 50s, 2 clearances, 4 score involvements, 84 SC
Rd 17 2020: 24 disposals, 7 marks (4 contested), nil goals, 2 inside 50s, 6 clearances, 6 score involvements, 140 SC
Rd 2 2021: 15 disposals, 7 marks (3 contested), 1 goal, 2 inside 50s, nil clearances, 8 score involvements, 92 SC
Rd 4 2021: 31 disposals, 3 marks (1 contested), 0 goals 6(!), 3 inside 50s, 6 clearances, 11 score involvements, 133 SC
Rd 8 2021: 27 disposals, 5 marks (2 contested), 1 goal, 3 inside 50s, 8 clearances, 10 score involvements, 122 SC
Rd 11 2021: 20 disposals, 3 marks (2 contested), 2 goals, nil inside 50s, 4 clearances, 9 score involvements, 99 SC
Rd 16 2021: 20 disposals, 3 marks (nil contested), nil goals, 3 inside 50s, 5 clearances, 6 score involvements, 72 SC

Longmuir is on record as saying Fyfe will have more of a mid-forward split in 2023 than he did in 2022 (because of the injuries last year) so that would suggest he'll get his share of midfield minutes. I wouldn't be concerned about him training as a forward, he's won 2 Brownlows as a mid so he doesn't really need to work on that as much as he does his forward craft. The way I see it he'll play as a third tall (lead-up) forward and run through the middle as an impact player. The 150 SC days might be over but in my view he's good for 85-105 with the occasional 120 thrown in to bump his average up to 97-100 before he inevitably breaks down in Rd 10. Depending on where the spike scores fall that would have him making $100k by the time the first new DPP forwards are announced.

There's also the very real possibility of him jagging a 140+ in the first 5 weeks (Freo have a very soft start to the season: Saints, Roos, Eagles, Crows, Suns), which would extremely painful to watch as a non-owner.

I do tend to overthink these things though so I could be completely wide of the mark.

The definition of Risk - Reward.

My thinking, if O'Meara wasnt recuited, Fyfe would be a big consideration. I will assume most of the members on this site are just waiting for Fyfe to get injured before RD1. BUT if he is fit for RD1..... decision time.

I will pass, an injury waiting to happen. Yeo will be the one i roll the dice with.

Good Luck.

 

[NDD]

Perhaps the best explained side on any site i have seen Your premos are premos and specs are specs . a winning structure no doubt The 9 premos will no doubt be keepers and Redman a chance good luck

 

[Shaunpro1]

The definition of Risk - Reward.

My thinking, if O'Meara wasnt recuited, Fyfe would be a big consideration. I will assume most of the members on this site are just waiting for Fyfe to get injured before RD1. BUT if he is fit for RD1..... decision time.

I will pass, an injury waiting to happen. Yeo will be the one i roll the dice with.

Good Luck.

I could obviously be wrong but I question why they recruited JOM if they still wanted to use Fyfe significantly on the ball, Erasmus and Johnson are two of the better talents going around and they already have Brayshaw,Brodie and Serong, hard to see how Fyfe is anything more than a bit part these days and I'm far from convinced hes going to score playing essentially full forward let alone actually stay on the park to the point that he could hurt me regardless.

Theres also plenty of mid priced forwards I think you can make a strong case for that are cheaper.

 

[Vicwood]

I could obviously be wrong but I question why they recruited JOM if they still wanted to use Fyfe significantly on the ball, Erasmus and Johnson are two of the better talents going around and they already have Brayshaw,Brodie and Serong, hard to see how Fyfe is anything more than a bit part these days and I'm far from convinced hes going to score playing essentially full forward let alone actually stay on the park to the point that he could hurt me regardless.

Theres also plenty of mid priced forwards I think you can make a strong case for that are cheaper.

JOM for a reason. Replace fyfe, multiple season injured. Great player in his prime but there comes a time. It's his last year, and I'm sure Fyfe wants to play finals. I suspect he will be managed thought the year.



Good Luck.

 

[HoleyFrijole$]

 

[OnTopBar]

Having a bit of a tinker and went light in Def. and heavy in Mids and Fwds.

Could theoretically get to full mid premo (well no rookies) with just 2 upgrades and full Fwd premo with just 1 trade. Def will obviously require a bit more work to get it in balance but just adding 2 premos there will eliminate all rookies from the field, Def should be the easier upgrade path than the mids because of the inherently cheaper options = less trades.

After those initial 5 upgrades I can then look at moving the MP's to top end premos, so the likes of Hopper, Yeo, Bowes, McKenna and McLean should be easier (from the number of trades required) to upgrade.

Thoughts would be appreciated because I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree.

 

[Feerits Elf]

I could obviously be wrong but I question why they recruited JOM if they still wanted to use Fyfe significantly on the ball, Erasmus and Johnson are two of the better talents going around and they already have Brayshaw,Brodie and Serong, hard to see how Fyfe is anything more than a bit part these days

The argument seems to be:

1. Fyfe needs to be used significantly on the ball to be a good pick
2. All the evidence suggests Fyfe will essentially play full forward
3. Ergo Fyfe will not be used significantly on the ball
4. Ergo Fyfe will not be a good pick

My argument is that Fyfe will not necessarily play exclusively as a stay-at-home full forward, but nor does he need to be used significantly on the ball to be a good pick. Longmuir is on record as saying the intention is for Fyfe to split his time between the forward line and the midfield. He's priced at 57 so if he averages 90 over the first half a dozen games it's a win. It might be difficult to see how he averages 90 on the basis of his most recent exposed form, but as mentioned he was dealing with injuries and was being used deep forward in 2022.

Can he average 90 at 31 years of age? I would argue yes. Fellow Brownlow medallists Ablett (4 times), Bartel, Black, Buckley, Crawford, Goodes, Harvey, Hird (twice), S Mitchell (4 times), Priddis (twice) and Swan all averaged 90+ at 31 or older.

These blokes weren't all playing as first-tier mids either. Obviously players like Ablett, Mitchell, Swan, Black, Harvey and Priddis led their respective midfields well into their autumn years, but Bartel (Dangerfield, Selwood, Duncan), Buckley (Licuria, O'Bree, Swan, Johnson, Burns), Crawford (Mitchell, Vandenberg, Sewell, Bateman, Hodge, Lewis), Goodes (ROK, JPK, McVeigh, Bolton, Jack, Hannebery) and Hird (Watson, Stanton, McVeigh, M Johnson, J Johnson) all scored 90+ while taking a backseat to younger onballers.

I seem to remember Bartel playing as a loose small defender, Crawford as a rebounding HBF/wing, Buckley patrolling the half-forward line and slotting goals from 50m off a step, Goodes playing CHF and Hird playing on the wing and having a licence to roam.

Brayshaw, JOM, Serong and Brodie are obviously Fremantle's first-choice mids, but Fyfe is a once-in-a-generation player and (in my opinion) will slot in where required (be it in the midfield or elsewhere). No disrespect to Erasmus or Johnson but they're teenagers with 5 matches between them. If a first-choice mid is resting or injured or is getting beaten Fyfe can slot in there. But if they're protecting a lead he can shore up the backline, and with his marking ability he can play on a wing and be a lead-up target for a kick out of defence, or he can play as a lead-up forward.

Like others of his ilk (Goodes, Hird, Bontempelli), he's capable of scoring points in bursts, so a low-possession 80SC game can very quickly turn into a 110SC result. I'm reminded of Hird's effort against West Coast in 2004 when he had 15 touches in the last quarter and won the game.

I acknowledge that his days as one of the league's best midfielders are over, but I don't need him to be one of the league's best mids. I reiterate: he's priced at 57.

As regards longevity: I'm not expecting him to play a full season and I don't intend to keep him for the entirety.

Who are the cheaper mid-priced forwards for whom you can make a case?

Thomas - nuff said
Darcy - nope
Windhager - tagger risk
Flanders - not relevant

 

[Shaunpro1]

The argument seems to be:

1. Fyfe needs to be used significantly on the ball to be a good pick
2. All the evidence suggests Fyfe will essentially play full forward
3. Ergo Fyfe will not be used significantly on the ball
4. Ergo Fyfe will not be a good pick

My argument is that Fyfe will not necessarily play exclusively as a stay-at-home full forward, but nor does he need to be used significantly on the ball to be a good pick. Longmuir is on record as saying the intention is for Fyfe to split his time between the forward line and the midfield. He's priced at 57 so if he averages 90 over the first half a dozen games it's a win. It might be difficult to see how he averages 90 on the basis of his most recent exposed form, but as mentioned he was dealing with injuries and was being used deep forward in 2022.

Can he average 90 at 31 years of age? I would argue yes. Fellow Brownlow medallists Ablett (4 times), Bartel, Black, Buckley, Crawford, Goodes, Harvey, Hird (twice), S Mitchell (4 times), Priddis (twice) and Swan all averaged 90+ at 31 or older.

These blokes weren't all playing as first-tier mids either. Obviously players like Ablett, Mitchell, Swan, Black, Harvey and Priddis led their respective midfields well into their autumn years, but Bartel (Dangerfield, Selwood, Duncan), Buckley (Licuria, O'Bree, Swan, Johnson, Burns), Crawford (Mitchell, Vandenberg, Sewell, Bateman, Hodge, Lewis), Goodes (ROK, JPK, McVeigh, Bolton, Jack, Hannebery) and Hird (Watson, Stanton, McVeigh, M Johnson, J Johnson) all scored 90+ while taking a backseat to younger onballers.

I seem to remember Bartel playing as a loose small defender, Crawford as a rebounding HBF/wing, Buckley patrolling the half-forward line and slotting goals from 50m off a step, Goodes playing CHF and Hird playing on the wing and having a licence to roam.

Brayshaw, JOM, Serong and Brodie are obviously Fremantle's first-choice mids, but Fyfe is a once-in-a-generation player and (in my opinion) will slot in where required (be it in the midfield or elsewhere). No disrespect to Erasmus or Johnson but they're teenagers with 5 matches between them. If a first-choice mid is resting or injured or is getting beaten Fyfe can slot in there. But if they're protecting a lead he can shore up the backline, and with his marking ability he can play on a wing and be a lead-up target for a kick out of defence, or he can play as a lead-up forward.

Like others of his ilk (Goodes, Hird, Bontempelli), he's capable of scoring points in bursts, so a low-possession 80SC game can very quickly turn into a 110SC result. I'm reminded of Hird's effort against West Coast in 2004 when he had 15 touches in the last quarter and won the game.

I acknowledge that his days as one of the league's best midfielders are over, but I don't need him to be one of the league's best mids. I reiterate: he's priced at 57.

As regards longevity: I'm not expecting him to play a full season and I don't intend to keep him for the entirety.

Who are the cheaper mid-priced forwards for whom you can make a case?

Thomas - nuff said
Darcy - nope
Windhager - tagger risk
Flanders - not relevant

Im alot more inclined to pick the younger players that have a role thats easier to score points, if Thomas can average 85 as a forward/mid hes not going to have any trouble doing it at half back, even Milera could work as hes gone at 90 before playing in defence, only needs the body to hold up for 6 weeks.

Flanders and Windhager are a little more sceptical but both have massive numbers as inside midfielders in the level below and are only going to get better at their age, dont think they need to set the world on fire to get to 80 if mid time is there which I expect it will be, nobody thought Will Brodie was a good pick initially if opportunity is there players can take it.

I just dont think you can play the role Fyfe is going to play and average 90 which you are going to need when the blokes 330K, think hell be lucky to get to 80 in all honesty.

Plenty of older players have scored well but they havent had Fyfes injury history or played predominantly out of the goal square because of it.

Freo are good enough that he can sit deep in the forward line for 80% of games and only have to burst in for 5 minutes a quarter.

I'm not as quick to completely disregard last year either, he played that role because he didn't have the fitness capacity to play anywhere else and still broke down again, if he can pinch a flag in a bit part role where he has the best chance of his body holding up why wouldn't he do that, no point throwing him to the wolves in Round 5 only to miss a whole finals campaign again.

This is an open forum would be very boring if we all saw the game the same way, all the best however you choose to structure up.

 

[Feerits Elf]

nobody thought Will Brodie was a good pick initially

Yes they did. He was the 4th most popular non-rookie forward at 40% ownership. In January there were MSM articles about him smashing it in the VFL for four years but not being able to replicate that form at AFL level for Gold Coast.

You wrote him off in February as the standard bloke that looks a superstar in the VFL running around on plodders but couldn't make the step up and go with blokes that actually explode and spread out of a stoppage.

You said you thought he was more likely to average 60 than 80, fair enough he had that 80 season in 2019 but he was a core midfielder then, that wasn't going to happen at Freo for your money.

 

[Shaunpro1]

Yes they did. He was the 4th most popular non-rookie forward at 40% ownership. In January there were MSM articles about him smashing it in the VFL for four years but not being able to replicate that form at AFL level for Gold Coast.

You wrote him off in February as the standard bloke that looks a superstar in the VFL running around on plodders but couldn't make the step up and go with blokes that actually explode and spread out of a stoppage.

You said you thought he was more likely to average 60 than 80, fair enough he had that 80 season in 2019 but he was a core midfielder then, that wasn't going to happen at Freo for your money.

Im not sure what going back to posts 12 months ago looking for dirt achieves but good on you for that one, wasn't the only one questioning him before we saw it in their two pre season games either, if Fyfe shows me the role is better than I think Im prepared to alter my thinking but weve seen nothing on the track to suggest that to date.

 

[Feerits Elf]

I wasn't looking for dirt, I was looking for information on Brodie. I just happened to stumble across the dirt

if Fyfe shows me the role is better than I think Im prepared to alter my thinking but weve seen nothing on the track to suggest that to date.

Agreed

 

[wogitalia]

I'd personally be very surprised if Fyfe wasn't used as a midfielder.

I dont think he's going to average 115 again, albeit he'd be a couple of injuries from having to take that role, but no reason he can't push 95-100 quite easily if he can stay fit.

This is a guy who averaged 73 as a skinny kid playing as a forward and then jumped to 108 in his second season still playing about 50/50. He only needs 85 so the cut-off is pretty damn low. For comparison a gimpy and completely broken Dusty got that playing as a pure forward in what was an ordinary side last year.

Will be watching closely in the preseason, to me there's very little reason for Fyfe to train with the mids, he already knows the position and his forward craft needs a lot of work.

Definitely not a lock yet but there's plenty of cheaper alternatives and I like to placehold the expensive option in the group as far easier to go cheaper but gets hard to move up.

Fyfe is one of the prime guys who could wreck your season. He's going to be in a majority of teams if he's fit come round one, not taking him is going to be the risky choice and it could be the right one but it's still high risk and relatively low reward, your best case is you're right and you gain a trade and some points over other sides come round 3 and that a few ride him right to the bottom and ruin their seasons. Your worst case is you're one of the few having to trade him in or you have your entire season ruined by doubling down (see wogitalia, 2022 with Sicily, James...).

 

[Professor]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing 😉

 

[Vicwood]

Having a bit of a tinker and went light in Def. and heavy in Mids and Fwds.

Could theoretically get to full mid premo (well no rookies) with just 2 upgrades and full Fwd premo with just 1 trade. Def will obviously require a bit more work to get it in balance but just adding 2 premos there will eliminate all rookies from the field, Def should be the easier upgrade path than the mids because of the inherently cheaper options = less trades.

After those initial 5 upgrades I can then look at moving the MP's to top end premos, so the likes of Hopper, Yeo, Bowes, McKenna and McLean should be easier (from the number of trades required) to upgrade.

Thoughts would be appreciated because I don't know if I'm barking up the wrong tree.


View attachment 52266

I like the Structure. I have something similar until pre season, except the names have changed. It gets most of the rookies off field. No need to stress each week waiting for team lists to drop. There are always a few surprises that leap out in DEF early in the year with a role change so even more reason to start light. I see Titch and Green scoring more than the 600K Defenders.

Bowes is a nice price, if he gets selwood role or the wing ill bring him in also. Willl be interestiing what role he ends up with. Cats are stacked, have great depth, so breaking into the side will be difficult.

I have gone Grundy over Witts as it allows Thomas at F5 and McLean at F6

I have gone Titch over Kelly as it saves a few $$ and helps get the rookies off the FWD line. I am also starting Green. My Break out selection for the year.

Good Luck

 

[Vicwood]

I'd personally be very surprised if Fyfe wasn't used as a midfielder.

I dont think he's going to average 115 again, albeit he'd be a couple of injuries from having to take that role, but no reason he can't push 95-100 quite easily if he can stay fit.

This is a guy who averaged 73 as a skinny kid playing as a forward and then jumped to 108 in his second season still playing about 50/50. He only needs 85 so the cut-off is pretty damn low. For comparison a gimpy and completely broken Dusty got that playing as a pure forward in what was an ordinary side last year.

Will be watching closely in the preseason, to me there's very little reason for Fyfe to train with the mids, he already knows the position and his forward craft needs a lot of work.

Definitely not a lock yet but there's plenty of cheaper alternatives and I like to placehold the expensive option in the group as far easier to go cheaper but gets hard to move up.

Fyfe is one of the prime guys who could wreck your season. He's going to be in a majority of teams if he's fit come round one, not taking him is going to be the risky choice and it could be the right one but it's still high risk and relatively low reward, your best case is you're right and you gain a trade and some points over other sides come round 3 and that a few ride him right to the bottom and ruin their seasons. Your worst case is you're one of the few having to trade him in or you have your entire season ruined by doubling down (see wogitalia, 2022 with Sicily, James...).

Under 300k apart from Thomas who else do you see for the F4 position that could push 85+ to the Bye.?

 

[Vicwood]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing 😉

Yeah if only i started Sicily last year and traded Sinclair round 6 as my first trade.

 

[Bomber18]

If Heeney averaged 101 playing 65%+ fwd last season, don’t see why Fyfe can’t.