Position 2023: Midfield Discussion
- Thread starter KLo30
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T Taranto:
Contested Possession Rate:
2017: 43.8%
2018: 45%
2019: 40.6%
2020: 45.6%
2021: 38.9%
2022: 39.5%
Kick to Handball Ratio:
2017: 1
2018: 1.3
2019: 1.5
2020: 1.7
2021: 1.4
2022: 1.2
If he handballs more than he kicks, do you expect him to average around the 28-32 disposal range and/or 6+ tackles to enable a 105+ average?
Contested Possession Rate:
2017: 43.8%
2018: 45%
2019: 40.6%
2020: 45.6%
2021: 38.9%
2022: 39.5%
Kick to Handball Ratio:
2017: 1
2018: 1.3
2019: 1.5
2020: 1.7
2021: 1.4
2022: 1.2
If he handballs more than he kicks, do you expect him to average around the 28-32 disposal range and/or 6+ tackles to enable a 105+ average?
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2022:
https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats_team.html
League average= 216.3 per game
11th= Hawthorn= 208.5 per game
14th= Collingwood= 204.5 per game
2021= 2nd= Hawthorn
2020= 9th= Hawthorn
2018= 6th= Hawthorn
2017= 2nd= Hawthorn
https://www.wheeloratings.com/afl_stats_team.html
League average= 216.3 per game
11th= Hawthorn= 208.5 per game
14th= Collingwood= 204.5 per game
2021= 2nd= Hawthorn
2020= 9th= Hawthorn
2018= 6th= Hawthorn
2017= 2nd= Hawthorn
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J Macrae:
2022:
Lowest tackle average since debut season in 2013
Lowest disposal average in full length quarters since 2017 (all other seasons have been 32.8 or more)
Equal lowest time on ground (80%) since rookie season
36.7% Contested Possession Rate- Lowest since 33% in 2016
11.6 contested possessions per game (13.4 to 13.5 in 2018, 2019, 2021)
Lowest SC starting price 2018 and first time his starting price has been under $650,000 in that same period.
Matches with less than 30 disposals per season (exc 2020- shortened quarters):
2022= 9/22 (5 in the last 7 rounds)
2021= 2/22
2019= 6/22
2018= 3/19 (Inc less than 50% TOG against PA in RD12
Between RD1-RD20:
2022:
Lowest tackle average since debut season in 2013
Lowest disposal average in full length quarters since 2017 (all other seasons have been 32.8 or more)
Equal lowest time on ground (80%) since rookie season
36.7% Contested Possession Rate- Lowest since 33% in 2016
11.6 contested possessions per game (13.4 to 13.5 in 2018, 2019, 2021)
Lowest SC starting price 2018 and first time his starting price has been under $650,000 in that same period.
Matches with less than 30 disposals per season (exc 2020- shortened quarters):
2022= 9/22 (5 in the last 7 rounds)
2021= 2/22
2019= 6/22
2018= 3/19 (Inc less than 50% TOG against PA in RD12
Between RD1-RD20:
The problem is that Fyfe and Ziebell (even McLean) all offer similar prospects to Brodie/Coniglio last year so if you're taking them it's problematic if also selecting 3 or more of the premium plays.
I think that Gawn, Bont, B. Smith, Parker, Petracca and Boak all stand out very strongly as potential DPP guys, any of them that get it and it's possible they're must have types. Yes you can sideways but it's always difficult to do as it basically needs to wait until the team is finished which often means missing all the value of why players get position changes in the first place.
It really hurt my season so I'm definitely not going to try and do it again this year, if it happens it happens but I'm not chasing it.
He's never had a season as a pure mid except 2019 where he averaged 102 in his third season, which is very impressive.
I don't disagree with you but the idea of a full season of pure mid definitely has 105 potential. There's definitely a factor that Richmond might be able to help him slightly although not sure I agree as GWS had a better list than Richmond for most of his career they just had god awful coaching to handicap it.
I'm also not huge on the Richmond factor, I think we all underrate how good a coach Dimma was because the Tigers overcame a lack of talent compared to many sides and still won flags, their midfielders with talent (Prestia, Martin and Cotchin) all scored very well. That they won flags playing the likes of Edwards, Lambert (feel bad lumping him in, his work rate was absurd and he played a team role), McIntosh, Pickett, Caddy, Grigg, Graham and Ellis through there in prime roles is a genuine credit to Dimma. The fact that group never scored well has far more to do with their lack of ability than Richmond's style, imo.
It's a factor but it's not going to stop Taranto or Hopper from producing if they're fit, it might even help them given how they butcher it and how badly the GWS finesse and possession style repeatedly exposed them both.
This would apply if he wasn't just as bad, if not worse, at handballing than he is kicking. Let's not also act like that group is significantly better than Kelly, Whitfield, Cumming, Williams and Coniglio et al running past for the handball either, GWS had talent and he's had opportunities to feed them.
If Dimma fixes his disposal he deserves coach of the year because he's broken at every level.
That said, it really doesn't matter because he tackles like a maniac, wins contested pill and Richmond's chaos style of hacking it forward probably actually helps him as that's already his natural style but this time his team is built around it and ready for it, even if just 2 or 3 of his hacks turn into ineffective disposals instead of clangers then he pushes the 105 range.
He's really solid value as a pick. I personally have him 4th of the Rozee, Coniglio and Dunkley group simply because I think his ceiling is that 105-110 range while the other three are well above that because they've got much more class but I think Taranto is a really strong option and it wouldn't surprise me if he beat any of those 3 given the durability issues they have (and role concerns for Rozee & Coniglio).
I really can't fault him as a pick this year.
I think that Gawn, Bont, B. Smith, Parker, Petracca and Boak all stand out very strongly as potential DPP guys, any of them that get it and it's possible they're must have types. Yes you can sideways but it's always difficult to do as it basically needs to wait until the team is finished which often means missing all the value of why players get position changes in the first place.
It really hurt my season so I'm definitely not going to try and do it again this year, if it happens it happens but I'm not chasing it.
He's never had a season as a pure mid except 2019 where he averaged 102 in his third season, which is very impressive.
I don't disagree with you but the idea of a full season of pure mid definitely has 105 potential. There's definitely a factor that Richmond might be able to help him slightly although not sure I agree as GWS had a better list than Richmond for most of his career they just had god awful coaching to handicap it.
I'm also not huge on the Richmond factor, I think we all underrate how good a coach Dimma was because the Tigers overcame a lack of talent compared to many sides and still won flags, their midfielders with talent (Prestia, Martin and Cotchin) all scored very well. That they won flags playing the likes of Edwards, Lambert (feel bad lumping him in, his work rate was absurd and he played a team role), McIntosh, Pickett, Caddy, Grigg, Graham and Ellis through there in prime roles is a genuine credit to Dimma. The fact that group never scored well has far more to do with their lack of ability than Richmond's style, imo.
It's a factor but it's not going to stop Taranto or Hopper from producing if they're fit, it might even help them given how they butcher it and how badly the GWS finesse and possession style repeatedly exposed them both.
This would apply if he wasn't just as bad, if not worse, at handballing than he is kicking. Let's not also act like that group is significantly better than Kelly, Whitfield, Cumming, Williams and Coniglio et al running past for the handball either, GWS had talent and he's had opportunities to feed them.
If Dimma fixes his disposal he deserves coach of the year because he's broken at every level.
That said, it really doesn't matter because he tackles like a maniac, wins contested pill and Richmond's chaos style of hacking it forward probably actually helps him as that's already his natural style but this time his team is built around it and ready for it, even if just 2 or 3 of his hacks turn into ineffective disposals instead of clangers then he pushes the 105 range.
He's really solid value as a pick. I personally have him 4th of the Rozee, Coniglio and Dunkley group simply because I think his ceiling is that 105-110 range while the other three are well above that because they've got much more class but I think Taranto is a really strong option and it wouldn't surprise me if he beat any of those 3 given the durability issues they have (and role concerns for Rozee & Coniglio).
I really can't fault him as a pick this year.
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So he has had a season as a pure midfielder 
Whether he has or not, there's plenty of games where Taranto has played as a full time midfielder with sub 100 scores. It's a moot point because we're looking at him as a forward but I've watched Taranto for years and for me he won't change his spots. It just doesn't hapen like that IMO with a guy who has poor disposal and not just poor at times, you watch half way through the season and Tigers fans at times will be calling for his head.
Whether he has or not, there's plenty of games where Taranto has played as a full time midfielder with sub 100 scores. It's a moot point because we're looking at him as a forward but I've watched Taranto for years and for me he won't change his spots. It just doesn't hapen like that IMO with a guy who has poor disposal and not just poor at times, you watch half way through the season and Tigers fans at times will be calling for his head.
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So he has had a season as a pure midfielder
Whether he has or not, there's plenty of games where Taranto has played as a full time midfielder with sub 100 scores. It's a moot point because we're looking at him as a forward but I've watched Taranto for years and for me he won't change his spots. It just doesn't hapen like that IMO with a guy who has poor disposal and not just poor at times, you watch half way through the season and Tigers fans at times will be calling for his head.
Whether he has or not, there's plenty of games where Taranto has played as a full time midfielder with sub 100 scores. It's a moot point because we're looking at him as a forward but I've watched Taranto for years and for me he won't change his spots. It just doesn't hapen like that IMO with a guy who has poor disposal and not just poor at times, you watch half way through the season and Tigers fans at times will be calling for his head.
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