Position 2023: Ruck Discussion

Manikato1

Manikato1

#261
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#261
Feerits Elf said:
Exactly, so Daniels has said a whole lotta nothing as duly reported by SEN :D
Click to expand...
I guess that depends what you know about Jackson and Freo. If you have heard little about how he is going in training then what he is saying probably does matter to some. Jackson has been impressive but it is not just Daniels saying that. Example training report from BF below. Naturally track watchers have some bias but take the froth off the top and he is still going very well. If you follow Freo or training reports then you would probably already know he is going well so his report probably did not add much to your existing knowledge. Trackwatchers bold not mine.

"Jackson kicked a very nice snag from ab out 40-50 towards the hospital end. Came direct from a centre bounce and he made a good lead followed by a very good kick. He was effective without being dominant for most of the game but then in the last something very intriguing happened. We had Darcy in the ruck and Jackson as a mid. I’m here to say I am here for this. It can’t be a permamnent thing but it can be a good thing to happen regularly enough. Whilst in there he destroyed Johnno in a very strong tackle, he got on the end of a handball to kick from the bounce inside the F50 and hit Fyfe on the lead, he got the ball out to JOM from a ground level contest and that’s just the stuff I saw and remember! It was a brief view of this unicorn thing and it looked very tasty. We need to keep a bit of a lid on it in that he was up against Johnno, Ras and Aish at that point and was with Darcy, JOM, Bray, Caleb a nd Brodie in there at different points going against Knobel and the y9ounger crew but it was fun to watch and very effective."
 
wogitalia

wogitalia

#269
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#269
I don't really buy the Jackson hype still. It feels like he's basically still riding the hype train of one really good game that happened to be a GF.

Melbourne had the same talk of using him as a midfielder with Gawn but it never happened because his effort level is questionable. Basically when he wants to be good he is very good but he's a very lazy player to date in his career and he's soft as well. Just gives that really strong "plays football because he's good, not because he wants to" type of vibe. A lot of Rory Lobb to be honest so far. The chasing a backup role aspect also doesn't sit well, I don't know but as a competitive person I'd never want to do that and I just find it really hard to relate to.

Now it might just be that he's young and immature or that he just hasn't built an engine to enable anything more from him and there's no denying he's a special athlete at that size. He's a great talent but I definitely have some concerns with him just based on how many games he has where he's completely checked out, makes him very hard to pick for fantasy.

Going to be fun to watch though and he definitely has the potential to be anything, it wouldn't shock me if he never goes past the 90s or if he goes to the 130s, the range is just wild for him because he is seriously talented but there's major issues right now he has to overcome.

I'm ready here for him to throw his hand up as a starting ruck option though, that's for sure :LOL:
 
Rowsus

Rowsus

Statistician
#273
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#273
Here is a different take on Witts.
Prepared to say every player and circumstance is different, so it's hard to throw up a blanket proposal over everyone, that justifies or eliminates any player.

Witts: Year - age - H&A - games - SC ave
2019 - 27 - 22/99.7
2020 - 28 - 17/93.4
2021 - 29 - 3/87.3
2022 - 30 - 22/109.9
Hit a career high at age 30, that was 10.2 higher than his historic best.

List of players to hit a career high at:
the age of 29 or older
where it was both a 10+ jump on the previous career high
and took them over 100+.

P Burgoyne - 2007 - had a career high of 10/82 - aged 29 went 21/112 - following season 17/91
D Cox - 2011 - had a career high of 22/112 - aged 30 went 22/122 - following season 22/112
T Hickey - 2021 - had a career high of 13/89.5 - aged 30 went 20/103.2 - following season 13/84.6

That's it. Only 3 players have achieved what Witts did last season, and all fell back to their more historic numbers, rather than doing anything like continuing on with that new high level.

Other notable players to record career highs at the age of 29+, without it being a 10+ jump;
Goodwin - it was only the 2nd season of SC, but he went 107, then at 29 went 113, never went above 104 again.
Harvey went 112 at 29, 3 higher than his previous best. 4 of his following 8 seasons were 100+: 100, 101, 104, 108.
Johnson B - again only the 2nd season of SC he went 113 at age 29, followed by 106, 87, 89, 64
Johnson S had a high of 107 at age 27, went 116 at age 29, then fell back to 107, then 85, 88
Malceski at age 29 hit a new high of 105, 4 higher 101 scored at age 22. Then went 71, 72.
Mundy at age 29 hit 114, 6 higher than his previous best at age 25, At age 30+ his best season was 100.
Petrie at age 30 went 103, 7 higher than previous best. Never went 87+ again.
Simpson A aged 31 went 101, 8 higher than previous best, then fell back to his 92-93 level.
Simpson K aged 32 went 106, 6 higher than his best at 26. His following seasons went: 94, 105, 82, 74.
Tuck (Shane) went 115 at age 31, 3 higher than his historic high, then went 66.

That's it, as far as I know. It's not a random sample, it's every player that hit a career high of 100+ at age 29+, and then how they went the following year/s. The only player that gives you a glimmer of hope, that Witts might be able to back up last season is Kade Simpson.

Does it mean Witts can't do it? No.
Does the weight of history stack heavily against him? Yes!!!!
 
Under The Dome

Under The Dome

#276
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#276
Rowsus said:
Here is a different take on Witts.
Prepared to say every player and circumstance is different, so it's hard to throw up a blanket proposal over everyone, that justifies or eliminates any player.

Witts: Year - age - H&A - games - SC ave
2019 - 27 - 22/99.7
2020 - 28 - 17/93.4
2021 - 29 - 3/87.3
2022 - 30 - 22/109.9
Hit a career high at age 30, that was 10.2 higher than his historic best.

List of players to hit a career high at:
the age of 29 or older
where it was both a 10+ jump on the previous career high
and took them over 100+.

P Burgoyne - 2007 - had a career high of 10/82 - aged 29 went 21/112 - following season 17/91
D Cox - 2011 - had a career high of 22/112 - aged 30 went 22/122 - following season 22/112

That's it. Only 2 players have achieved what Witts did last season, and both fell back to their more historic numbers, rather than doing anything like continuing on with that new high level.

Other notable players to record career highs at the age of 29+, without it being a 10+ jump;
Goodwin - it was only the 2nd season of SC, but he went 107, then at 29 went 113, never went above 104 again.
Harvey went 112 at 29, 3 higher than his previous best. 4 of his following 8 seasons were 100+: 100, 101, 104, 108.
Johnson B - again only the 2nd season of SC he went 113 at age 29, followed by 106, 87, 89, 64
Johnson S had a high of 107 at age 27, went 116 at age 29, then fell back to 107, then 85, 88
Malceski at age 29 hit a new high of 105, 4 higher 101 scored at age 22. Then went 71, 72.
Mundy at age 29 hit 114, 6 higher than his previous best at age 25, At age 30+ his best season was 100.
Petrie at age 30 went 103, 7 higher than previous best. Never went 87+ again.
Simpson A aged 31 went 101, 8 higher than previous best, then fell back to his 92-93 level.
Simpson K aged 32 went 106, 6 higher than his best at 26. His following seasons went: 94, 105, 82, 74.
Tuck (Shane) went 115 at age 31, 3 higher than his historic high, then went 66.

That's it, as far as I know. It's not a random sample, it's every player that hit a career high at age 29+, and then how they went the following year/s. The only player that gives you a glimmer of hope, that Witts might be able to back up last season is Kade Simpson.

Does it mean Witts can't do it? No.
Does the weight of history stack heavily against him? Yes!!!!
Click to expand...
Hickey done it in 2021.
 
Toothless Tigers

Toothless Tigers

#278
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#278
Shannon said:
Valid points but I certainly can see why he is being so bullish on both fronts. The vision I have seen from Freo's match sims shows them playing at a high intensity/ much higher than last year for example, playing at a very high pace for this time of year & Jackson's athletic ability is very impressive, I have no doubt this kid will be one of the best players in the league over the next few years.
Click to expand...
The only Jackson I would be interested in is the Young and Jackson
https://www.youngandjacksons.com.au
 
Toothless Tigers

Toothless Tigers

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#279
wogitalia said:
I don't really buy the Jackson hype still. It feels like he's basically still riding the hype train of one really good game that happened to be a GF.

Melbourne had the same talk of using him as a midfielder with Gawn but it never happened because his effort level is questionable. Basically when he wants to be good he is very good but he's a very lazy player to date in his career and he's soft as well. Just gives that really strong "plays football because he's good, not because he wants to" type of vibe. A lot of Rory Lobb to be honest so far. The chasing a backup role aspect also doesn't sit well, I don't know but as a competitive person I'd never want to do that and I just find it really hard to relate to.

Now it might just be that he's young and immature or that he just hasn't built an engine to enable anything more from him and there's no denying he's a special athlete at that size. He's a great talent but I definitely have some concerns with him just based on how many games he has where he's completely checked out, makes him very hard to pick for fantasy.

Going to be fun to watch though and he definitely has the potential to be anything, it wouldn't shock me if he never goes past the 90s or if he goes to the 130s, the range is just wild for him because he is seriously talented but there's major issues right now he has to overcome.

I'm ready here for him to throw his hand up as a starting ruck option though, that's for sure :LOL:
Click to expand...
The Strawbs O'Dwyer of Fremantle......
 
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