Position 2023: Midfield Discussion

[Manikato1]

Clayton Oliver now fully fit and training with the main group. Apparently the issue he was having was with a finger and not actually the thumb he had surgery on.

So does that mean it is this




to all the Oliver doubters?

 

[BIGB0Y]

At this stage yeah I'm.passing. That pick in the midfield has never worked for me.

I feel out of the three hopper, yeo and ziebell. Hopper is the pick of the bunch. His time on ground will be pretty much 99% inside mid. Thats what richmond has lacked for years and thats why they sold the farm on getting him across with taranto. I would be shocked if he went under 95 ave. I currently have all 3 in my team as my midpricers. I really like culley but not in my team atm.

 

[NT.Thunder]

I feel out of the three hopper, yeo and ziebell. Hopper is the pick of the bunch. His time on ground will be pretty much 99% inside mid. Thats what richmond has lacked for years and thats why they sold the farm on getting him across with taranto. I would be shocked if he went under 95 ave. I currently have all 3 in my team as my midpricers. I really like culley but not in my team atm.

I'm nervous about fading Hopper but at this stage that would mean downgrading a premium/keeper option I have with no real upgrade anywhere else. Still a work in progress but happy where I am ATM.

 

[Manikato1]

I think it's almost a positive. Lyon is such a defensive minded coach. More stoppages means more chance for Steele to score. We know he's not a Laird/ Oliver/ Neale type where he needs a tonne of the footy. He's a tackling machine and hard ball magnet. As long as I see him tackling well in practice matches then he's a lock

The Steele stats are interesting. No question on the tackling. But the stoppages/clearances were curious.

Tackles in AFL

2020 8th
2021 2nd
2022 5th

Clearances

Centre Clearance

2020 outside top 20
2021 19th
2022 outside top 20

Stoppage Clearances

2020 12th
2021 19th
2022 outside top 20

Clearances can be a function of ruck efficiency

St Kilda HOA

2020 2nd
2021 5th
2022 12th

So the opportunity for clearances was there you would think.

 

[mwross91]

The Steele stats are interesting. No question on the tackling. But the stoppages/clearances were curious.

Tackles in AFL

2020 8th
2021 2nd
2022 5th

Clearances

Centre Clearance

2020 outside top 20
2021 19th
2022 outside top 20

Stoppage Clearances

2020 12th
2021 19th
2022 outside top 20

Clearances can be a function of ruck efficiency

St Kilda HOA

2020 2nd
2021 5th
2022 12th

So the opportunity for clearances was there you would think.

Yeh I guess it's how you interpret it... ignoring last year with injuries, these stats tell me that he was a premium mid without needing clearances. That being said, he did perform much better at stoppages than centre clearances. So with a defensive mindset from a coach, more stoppages, more opportunities for tackles and stoppage clearances...

He hasn't moved from my team but I can understand people considering the potentially more risky but slightly cheaper picks of Green /Jelly/ LDU / Anderson for that M4 position.

 

[Manikato1]

Yeh I guess it's how you interpret it... ignoring last year with injuries, these stats tell me that he was a premium mid without needing clearances. That being said, he did perform much better at stoppages than centre clearances. So with a defensive mindset from a coach, more stoppages, more opportunities for tackles and stoppage clearances...

He hasn't moved from my team but I can understand people considering the potentially more risky but slightly cheaper picks of Green /Jelly/ LDU / Anderson for that M4 position.

For the record he is M5 at the moment in my team. Happy to keep him there as long as he shows up in practice matches and is fully fit. Some mixed messages have come out of StK training watchers over the past month or so.

 

[Leroy]

What do we know/think about O'Halloran ($202k MID from GWS)?

Three games in 2022 where he came on as the sub and dragged down his average. Has shown a few ok scores but lots of rookie rubbish as well.

 

[PC]

So does that mean it is this


View attachment 52595

to all the Oliver doubters?

More this actually...

 

[Manikato1]

More this actually...

View attachment 52597

The best of both worlds

 

[freowho]

Haven't seen Menegola mentioned.

 

[Shannon]

Haven't seen Menegola mentioned.

Is he in the best 22 for the cats? Such a strong team, SEN listed their best 22 & neither Menegola nor Bowes were in it :-

 

[freowho]

Is he in the best 22 for the cats? Such a strong team, SEN listed their best 22 & neither Menegola nor Bowes were in it :-

View attachment 52612

Maybe he just got a bit old and Holmes and Smith have taken his spot but if he's fit he's ahead of OHenry and although not like for like he's a better player than Close, Zuthrie and O'Connor. He's a very good lead up half forward who can drift down the ground.

 

[HoleyFrijole$]

Maybe he just got a bit old and Holmes and Smith have taken his spot but if he's fit he's ahead of OHenry and although not like for like he's a better player than Close, Zuthrie and O'Connor. He's a very good lead up half forward who can drift down the ground.

Menegola was certainly 22 before last year, where he had an injury riddled season, and couldn't push his way back in given the form of the playing squad. I'd suggest as a reset at the start of 2023, he'd be a big chance to be in the '22, same goes for Parfitt. Going to be some very good players playing in the VFL should the Cats list stay healthy.

 

[mwross91]

Question for the group. There's obviously a lot people that are choosing one or more of the following: LDU / Anderson / Green / Mitchell
In years gone by, how many of these 500 - 560k players have made that jump into the top 10 mids?

I like the Green pick, don't hate the Mitchell pick as he's done it before, and see the merit in LDU and (less so) Anderson, but I haven't found ways to feel comfortable with them in my team.
At the moment I'm running Laird, Oliver, Bont, Steele then Hopper.
If I was to try and fit one of these guys in it's probably Steele who goes (or if we get weird - Laird down and free up $150k for elsewhere).
But then I feel like I'm dropping genuine VC / C options for a player that I don't have as much confidence in to put the VC on.

Maybe its just that none of them have worked in with the structure I'm rolling currently.

What's everyone else's thoughts - Green the consensus for most likely to push to top 10 category?

 

[AngryAnt]

Question for the group. There's obviously a lot people that are choosing one or more of the following: LDU / Anderson / Green / Mitchell
In years gone by, how many of these 500 - 560k players have made that jump into the top 10 mids?

I like the Green pick, don't hate the Mitchell pick as he's done it before, and see the merit in LDU and (less so) Anderson, but I haven't found ways to feel comfortable with them in my team.
At the moment I'm running Laird, Oliver, Bont, Steele then Hopper.
If I was to try and fit one of these guys in it's probably Steele who goes (or if we get weird - Laird down and free up $150k for elsewhere).
But then I feel like I'm dropping genuine VC / C options for a player that I don't have as much confidence in to put the VC on.

Maybe its just that none of them have worked in with the structure I'm rolling currently.

What's everyone else's thoughts - Green the consensus for most likely to push to top 10 category?

Green, LDU, Mitchell, Anderson is the order of preference for me.

I think Green has type of game that is completely suited and excellent for supercoach scoring plus he's probably their best purely inside midfielder now. Also kicked goals early last season so he can impact the scoreboard. The only concern is that we haven't seen him produce a whole consistent season but he's still young.

 

[Locus Levy Lunacy]

Question for the group. There's obviously a lot people that are choosing one or more of the following: LDU / Anderson / Green / Mitchell
In years gone by, how many of these 500 - 560k players have made that jump into the top 10 mids?

I like the Green pick, don't hate the Mitchell pick as he's done it before, and see the merit in LDU and (less so) Anderson, but I haven't found ways to feel comfortable with them in my team.
At the moment I'm running Laird, Oliver, Bont, Steele then Hopper.
If I was to try and fit one of these guys in it's probably Steele who goes (or if we get weird - Laird down and free up $150k for elsewhere).
But then I feel like I'm dropping genuine VC / C options for a player that I don't have as much confidence in to put the VC on.

Maybe its just that none of them have worked in with the structure I'm rolling currently.

What's everyone else's thoughts - Green the consensus for most likely to push to top 10 category?

I don't know the answer to this, but the problem is, a lot of players bypass the average range of 90 - 100 points (which is 500 - 560K) on their way to the top 10.

Oliver did it from 70 average, Petracca from 81. Walsh just missed this bracket on either side in his first 2 years (86 and 101), then went 117.

None of this years top 4 mids ended a year in that price range to even compare trajectories. Jack Steele did 95 to 122.5 in one jump, but he spent 3 years in the 90's before doing it (probably tagging).

It comes down to talent (usually a high draft pick), opportunity in the right role, and the fitness level to play the TOG required. They all have the first 2, but some players take longer than others (Petracca, Dangerfield, Miller) to reach the running capacity needed.

You really do need to hear that they are flying in pre-season, then see it with your own eyes in the practice matches. Then **** your pants and just pick the expensive guys.

 

[mwross91]

I don't know the answer to this, but the problem is, a lot of players bypass the average range of 90 - 100 points (which is 500 - 560K) on their way to the top 10.

Oliver did it from 70 average, Petracca from 81. Walsh just missed this bracket on either side in his first 2 years (86 and 101), then went 117.

None of this years top 4 mids ended a year in that price range to even compare trajectories. Jack Steele did 95 to 122.5 in one jump, but he spent 3 years in the 90's before doing it (probably tagging).

It comes down to talent (usually a high draft pick), opportunity in the right role, and the fitness level to play the TOG required. They all have the first 2, but some players take longer than others (Petracca, Dangerfield, Miller) to reach the running capacity needed.

You really do need to hear that they are flying in pre-season, then see it with your own eyes in the practice matches. Then **** your pants and just pick the expensive guys.

This is pretty spot on haha

 

[Manikato1]

Question for the group. There's obviously a lot people that are choosing one or more of the following: LDU / Anderson / Green / Mitchell
In years gone by, how many of these 500 - 560k players have made that jump into the top 10 mids?

I like the Green pick, don't hate the Mitchell pick as he's done it before, and see the merit in LDU and (less so) Anderson, but I haven't found ways to feel comfortable with them in my team.
At the moment I'm running Laird, Oliver, Bont, Steele then Hopper.
If I was to try and fit one of these guys in it's probably Steele who goes (or if we get weird - Laird down and free up $150k for elsewhere).
But then I feel like I'm dropping genuine VC / C options for a player that I don't have as much confidence in to put the VC on.

Maybe its just that none of them have worked in with the structure I'm rolling currently.

What's everyone else's thoughts - Green the consensus for most likely to push to top 10 category?

These stats courtesy of vin.gill who posts every year at the end of the season. 2022 and 2021 below to give you something to chew over.

 

[Harmonic Nine]

Surprised not too much love for Josh Kelly. Priced at $582,300, a guy that has gone 114+ for 4 consecutive seasons, now priced at 105 to start.

Durability was always a concern with him, but he's played 21 games in both 22 and 21 seasons (and his 1 game missed last year was an unlucky knock in play).

He went over 100 12 times last year for an average of 122. Showing when given the right role, he will score well.

For a guy that is a proven top tier SC scorer, has only just turned 28 this week, will get more opportunity in his preferred role with new coach (averaged 110 after Leon left last year, not including 1 injury game) plus Taranto and Hopper leaving, I think he represents huge value and can see him going 120

 

[froffershanners]

Surprised not too much love for Josh Kelly. Priced at $582,300, a guy that has gone 114+ for 4 consecutive seasons, now priced at 105 to start.

Durability was always a concern with him, but he's played 21 games in both 22 and 21 seasons (and his 1 game missed last year was an unlucky knock in play).

He went over 100 12 times last year for an average of 122. Showing when given the right role, he will score well.

For a guy that is a proven top tier SC scorer, has only just turned 28 this week, will get more opportunity in his preferred role with new coach (averaged 110 after Leon left last year, not including 1 injury game) plus Taranto and Hopper leaving, I think he represents huge value and can see him going 120

Hoping a new coach changes things but losing his midfield role in the last 4 games which coincided with Perryman getting plenty of midfield minutes is a worry for me.

Hopper and Taranto leaving obviously helps with this but logic suggests that Cogs, Green and Kelly are the main guys this year. If we see that is the case and Perryman gets squeezed out then I will be interested. Although hard to pick over Green if that materialises.

Kelly averaged 112.4 last year when attending 40%+ CBAs and 92.4 with less than 40% CBAs.