Analysis SuperCoach Scoring Explained, Observations & Complaints On Scoring

[Ironhawk]

When you get Ziebell having 30 effective kicks, half of which were probably long and effective straight from a kickout (Freo kicked 15 behinds but I haven't fully looked up the stats) then based on the above there's no real way to stop them scoring a ton (literally) of points.

Isn't a ton literally 2,000 pounds of weight?

I don't mind the scoring system, but there's always going to be seagulls who take advantage of it and skew things a bit. It's just a matter of identifying them and getting them on board for SC. I agree Ziebell may not be as influential a player that his points suggest he is, but overall it's not far off the mark, and if you break it down by position, rather than combined, you can't argue too much about things.

 

[Wheedus]

I don't mind the scoring being skewed one way or the other. That just informs the skill of selection and I believe adds to the enjoyment of analysing the game for opportunities in SC. Let's be honest, that's half the reason we all play the game! Just look at all the discussion around the change in scoring for Rucks (HOTA) a few years back or more recently coming into this season, the potential impact of the extra freedom for players taking kick ins and man on the mark rule changes.

What I do object to is inconsistent scoring within games and between players doing the same thing. I get that players will be rewarded more for effective acts at critical stages of the game but it just seems too subjective at times and feels like some players have to work so much harder for their points.

 

[Wolffy84]

The crazy thing is Ziebell was likely scaled down throughout the game (maybe champion data being discretionary based on impact or maybe they just didn't have enough points left for everybody else). Based on the below stats alone, I can see him getting to beyond 169 points.

Effective Kicks: 30 * 4 = 120 points
Uncontested Mark: 13 * 2 = 26 points
Tackles: 5 * 4 = 20 points
Frees For: 2 * 4 = 8 points
Spoils: 2 * 2 = 4 points
Intercept Marks and Possessions: 20 points (estimate)

That's already close to 200 points. I'm sure Champion Data can already see the defenders are scoring very well post the rule changes, so let's hope they tweak their scoring for future seasons, maybe by doing the below:

1. Reduce the effective kick points for a kick in to 2 rather than 4
2. Leave the effective kick points for a kick in at 4, but change the definition for kick in's (maybe the kick needs to clear the defensive 50 to count)
3. Only count uncontested mark if the preceding kick went forward?

 

[SuchIsLife]

I don't mind the scoring being skewed one way or the other. That just informs the skill of selection and I believe adds to the enjoyment of analysing the game for opportunities in SC. Let's be honest, that's half the reason we all play the game! Just look at all the discussion around the change in scoring for Rucks (HOTA) a few years back or more recently coming into this season, the potential impact of the extra freedom for players taking kick ins and man on the mark rule changes.

What I do object to is inconsistent scoring within games and between players doing the same thing. I get that players will be rewarded more for effective acts at critical stages of the game but it just seems too subjective at times and feels like some players have to work so much harder for their points.

I don't mind it being skewed, the scoring formula just needs to be transparent so we can appropriately adapt to changes.

The one provided on their website/recent updates are clearly wrong/inaccurate. Still not sure why the game doesn't reveal the fundamental rules we base our strategies on.

 

[Zimmer]

Isn't a ton literally 2,000 pounds of weight?

Agree, this over and misuse of "literally" is reaching disturbing levels. Literally.

 

[Darkie]

I don't mind the scoring being skewed one way or the other. That just informs the skill of selection and I believe adds to the enjoyment of analysing the game for opportunities in SC. Let's be honest, that's half the reason we all play the game! Just look at all the discussion around the change in scoring for Rucks (HOTA) a few years back or more recently coming into this season, the potential impact of the extra freedom for players taking kick ins and man on the mark rule changes.

What I do object to is inconsistent scoring within games and between players doing the same thing. I get that players will be rewarded more for effective acts at critical stages of the game but it just seems too subjective at times and feels like some players have to work so much harder for their points.

This is basically my thinking too, especially nowadays.

I used to place significant store in the SC system being a good representation of a player’s performance or contribution, and thought it was a materially better game than DT as a result.

Then I played BBL and IPL, which are both essentially DT scoring systems - no scaling, no real subjectivity, but also less nuance.

Getting junk runs from your batsmen or one of your bowlers cleaning up low value wickets at the end is still very enjoyable from an ownership perspective, and the fact that it doesn’t align with their value to the team is much less of an issue for me now! There is certainly skill in identifying players with a game style or role that provides opportunity to rack up these points, and vice versa.

So long as it is consistent, and transparent in terms of rule or scoring changes, I’m okay with that.

 

[chels]

Sure I have a bias. but this is infuriating:

Sydney 14 6 90 beat Geelong 12 16 88
SC - Sydney 1505, Geelong 1793

Who won? Oh the team with less SC points awarded. Can only wonder what the scores would have been if the game was at Geelong and they had held on?

 

[<actus]

My observation: quite a lot of kicks that would have been rated “long to a contest” last year are being rated as turnovers this year.

 

[Obie]

SC is as much about understanding the system than anything else. You don’t pick the best players. That’s what the Brownlow and Best and Fairests are about. Know the system and pick accordingly. Lloyd rarely turns it over and gets a lot of cheap stuff that hits the target. Everything North does in the back half runs through ziebell. I’ve noticed that some players like Merrett kick off the ground out of a contested pack and if it goes to opposition it’s a Clanger. The system is same for all players. Pick the ones the system suits. Easy!!

 

[Zoku Pops]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398555896100179975

View: https://twitter.com/FantasyFreako/status/1398555896100179975?s=19


On the lack of tackle for Hall, I think it should count but understand it doesn't as the ball spilled out to Sinclair.

On Freako's explanation that it's an effective knock-on for Hill, I find that staggering. He simply dropped the ball!

 

[wogitalia]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1398555896100179975

View: https://twitter.com/FantasyFreako/status/1398555896100179975?s=19


On the lack of tackle for Hall, I think it should count but understand it doesn't as the ball spilled out to Sinclair.

On Freako's explanation that it's an effective knock-on for Hill, I find that staggering. He simply dropped the ball!

The problem on the 2nd part is they designed the system before dropping the ball and throwing it became AFL accepted disposals and they have no other way to grade it than a knock-on in their system and because it goes to a teammate it's effective.

Personally I'd like to see that called a tackle (and ball) but understand why it's not. I'd like tackle to be extended to only not count where an effective disposal happens.

 

[Herbie66]

Found the appropriate thread 😀

 

[Erich1036]

Annual bump. A scoring system I've honed from years of live score watching and cross referenced with a Bont vs JPK score breakdown Champion Data released a few years back that proved that it's pretty close to spot on. You'll have a much more enjoyable viewing experience and far less complaints going off of this rather than the completely inaccurate scoring system found on the SuperCoach website

KICKS

Ineffective: 0
Backwards and effective: 1
Long (40+ metres) to a contest: 2
Short and effective: 3
Long to advantage (effective): 5
Clanger (unforced kick to opposition): -3

NOTE: A kick to a contest less than 40 metres in distance is deemed ineffective.

HANDBALLS

Ineffective: 0
Effective: 1

Clanger (unforced handball to opposition): -3

MARKS

From teammate, uncontested: 1
From teammate, contested: 3
From teammate, contested inside 50: 4
From teammate, on lead: 3
From opposition, uncontested: 3
From opposition, contested: 6

Clanger (dropped uncontested mark leading to opposition possession): -3

FREE KICKS

Free for: 3 (counts as a contested possession)
Free against, in a contested situation: -1
Free against, in an uncontested situation: -3
Give away a 50 meter penalty: -5

HITOUTS

To advantage: 5
To disadvantage (sharked by opposition): -1
Gather from ruck contest: 2

TACKLES: 3

GOAL: 6* (can vary drastically depending on closeness of the match)

HANDBALL RECEIVE: 1

HARD OR LOOSE BALL GET: 3

SPOIL, SHEPHERD OR SMOTHER: 1

SPOIL GAINING POSSESSION: 3

SCORE ASSIST: 3

CONTESTED KNOCK ON TO ADVANTAGE: 4

BOUNCE: 1

 

[Beijing_Sting]

I guess this is a scoring question - I found someone asking it in 2014, but can't seem to find clarification. It is Draft related. Specifically, what not selecting auto subs does.

By turning it off auto subs, do we get to nominate Emegencies (like in AFL fantasy) in the position, or do you just cop a zero have a zero?

I am in an auto sub league - I can't believe I am unable to select my subs, but that's what it looks like, right?

 

[Zuelly]

Hello.

I am only just starting to pickup Supercoach seriously.
I am trying to find an actual calculation guide for how it is calculated.
From all I have found is a couple of loose news articles and the wiki, which just doesn't corroborate with the players data.
Is there a calculator or something to actually weight each of these actions (Kick, Handball, Goal ect)

Thanks in advanced.

 

[donnybuang]

Save yourself some stress and just accept the scores are what the scores are 🤣🤣

 

[MC's Mix]

Hello.

I am only just starting to pickup Supercoach seriously.
I am trying to find an actual calculation guide for how it is calculated.
From all I have found is a couple of loose news articles and the wiki, which just doesn't corroborate with the players data.
Is there a calculator or something to actually weight each of these actions (Kick, Handball, Goal ect)

Thanks in advanced.

Hey mate, firstly, welcome!
To answer your question, there is no strict formula for SC scores. It's calculated roughly based on the impact of actions, which sometimes seems subjective.
IE a match-winning mark and goal in the 4th quarter will be worth significantly more than a random goal in the 2nd quarter.
Each game has around 3300 points allocated, which are divided amongst the players.
Dreamteam has a simpler scoring system where kick = x points, mark = x points etc

 

[MC's Mix]

This is what I found on the website too:




Seems crazy that a hardball get is weighted equally to a loose-ball get...
Can someone remind me... Why do we play this game again?

 

[Zuelly]

This is what I found on the website too:

View attachment 55670


Seems crazy that a hardball get is weighted equally to a loose-ball get...
Can someone remind me... Why do we play this game again?

I noted these values from the Wiki page, but also knew Champion Data was meddling with the data somehow.
Other than checkin the official Supercoach website, is there any other sources of this data provided by Champion Data?
Seems like the website updates so slowly, and when considering a last minute change or how consistently a player is doing throughout the game, it is hard to read and judge when the scores aren’t dynamically updated.

I had also wanted to try weight different people depending on actual stats, not based upon a team hitting *around* 3300 points and then someone kicking two goals in the last minutes to win them the game, but also bolstering their points…

I will see what I can come up with.. doubt it will be anything amazing.

 

[Rowsus]

I noted these values from the Wiki page, but also knew Champion Data was meddling with the data somehow.
Other than checkin the official Supercoach website, is there any other sources of this data provided by Champion Data?
Seems like the website updates so slowly, and when considering a last minute change or how consistently a player is doing throughout the game, it is hard to read and judge when the scores aren’t dynamically updated.

I had also wanted to try weight different people depending on actual stats, not based upon a team hitting *around* 3300 points and then someone kicking two goals in the last minutes to win them the game, but also bolstering their points…

I will see what I can come up with.. doubt it will be anything amazing.

It's possible you are tying to simplify, what is actually a very complicated system.
Not all the scoring is equal, for the same act.
eg. not all Effective Kicks attract 4 points. It depends on where it happened on the ground (inside an arc, between the arcs etc.), how long it is, and probably another factor or two. The 4 points listed for an effective kick is just a guide. It's not set in stone. It's nowhere like DT where all acts are equal.
The other thing to keep in mind is, that scaling is dynamic. This is why you can see players scores going up and down, even when they are off the ground, say half way through the first quarter.
To give an over simplistic explanation of this, you have 3300 points over 80 minutes of actual playing time, so 41.25 points/minute.
So after 8 minutes, there should be 330 points awarded. But let's say there has only been 300 points of actual points awarded, then ALL scores are scaled up 10%, to get the total to 330. This is dynamic, happening constantly, but it is an over simplification to just try and explain.
The best time to see this in action is if there is a goal in the first minute or so of the match. You'll quite often see the goal kicker sitting on say 18-20 points. But if he does nothing else for the next 8-10 minutes, you'll see his score slowly drop 19 ...... 18 ...... 17 etc. It's also why, when the play is frenetic, with many acts in a short period of play, the scores don't seem to rise as much as you might think., or if they do, they then slip slowly, slightly backwards.
It's why some players can rack up 30 disposals at a good DE, but only score 90. If all the kicks are short and sideways, just outside the Def arc, they're not attracting many points!!!! I call this "The Cotchin Effect". In 2012 Cotchin was a SC Stud having a 22/116.3 season. But by 2016 his stats were nearly identical, but his SC average dropped to 100. Why? Because he was gathering too many possessions at Half back, and going short and sideways. In 2012 he was going longer and straighter.
I hope this has helped. There are 2 or 3 members on this site that are WAY better than me at explaining this. Bontempele is one such member as is Erich1036. I can't promise they will have time to give you detailed answers, but you can try tagging them in a question, and see if they can help you.