News Injuries & Suspensions

[Old Big 'Ead]

I'm curious as to what "overseas" sports you watch.

Rugby union? NBA? NFL? All of them penalise actions towards refs a hell of a lot more than a random dissent penalty once every week or two in the AFL.

I guess we don't compare to South America and their killing of refs, but then there was the ref that got his jaw broken in the local Sydney comp last week.

The arguing and questioning of ref's is extremely prevalent with European Football. You just have to watch the EPL to see how rampant it is. Players all cram around the ref, following them everywhere, arms out wide, constant arguing!

Any abuse or obscenities will result in cards, but you can definitely argue and question.

 

[donnybuang]

I'm curious as to what "overseas" sports you watch.

Rugby union? NBA? NFL? All of them penalise actions towards refs a hell of a lot more than a random dissent penalty once every week or two in the AFL.

I guess we don't compare to South America and their killing of refs, but then there was the ref that got his jaw broken in the local Sydney comp last week.

NBA, really? The players and coaches are constantly in the ref's faces on game day or are you talking about media conferences?
EPL the other one I watch more than AFL.

 

[Zimmer]

Not sure how much force there was in it but Newman's definitely lucky they charged him with the right arm making contact & not the left arm which was the 1st action they talk about!

"Neale said he felt “a little clip to my jaw” from the first action – but not the second action, for which Newman was charged.

The Blues argued that Newman’s pushing motion was not a strike.

“Why would an AFL footballer intentionally strike Lachie Neale 20m from his goal?” their counsel Peter O’Farrell argued.

“Neale’s evidence was clear that he was hit to the chest with a hand. There’s no better evidence in terms of someone that was hit than from the person that was hit.

Fair enough.

This is just an indication of how rhetorical this stuff gets.

Similar to the JVR one - ie. "reasonable player":

“Why would an AFL footballer intentionally strike Lachie Neale 20m from his goal?” their counsel Peter O’Farrell argued.

That's not an argument.

 

[Chumpion]

The JVR suspension I get even though I thought 2 weeks was harsh. I don't think "trying to spoil" gives a free pass for recklessness, and there is history of players being suspended for high hits when they punch a player trying to spoilt the ball.
The short of it is, players now need to think about duty of care when they are doing anything.. and the AFL has made it clear you can't hide behind "football acts" if you are doing them in a reckless way, especially where it pertains to the head.

 

[neeld]

Did JVR make contact? I struggle to find if he even did, questionable whether it was a free kick let alone 2 weeks

 

[Ben's Beasts]

Official.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1656116867583602688

View: https://twitter.com/melbournefc/status/1656116867583602688?s=20

 

[dlanod]

The arguing and questioning of ref's is extremely prevalent with European Football. You just have to watch the EPL to see how rampant it is. Players all cram around the ref, following them everywhere, arms out wide, constant arguing!

Any abuse or obscenities will result in cards, but you can definitely argue and question.

NBA, really? The players and coaches are constantly in the ref's faces on game day or are you talking about media conferences?
EPL the other one I watch more than AFL.

Football has pretty much the least enforcement (not just EPL but any league) so both of you are literally comparing AFL to the bottom of the bin for umpire dissent, but there are plenty of sports more precious about their refs than AFL.

NBA refs give out technical fouls all the time for players and coaches getting too in their face. Compare that to how often 50m penalties are paid for the same thing in our game.

 

[Couch Coach]

The JVR suspension I get even though I thought 2 weeks was harsh. I don't think "trying to spoil" gives a free pass for recklessness, and there is history of players being suspended for high hits when they punch a player trying to spoilt the ball.
The short of it is, players now need to think about duty of care when they are doing anything.. and the AFL has made it clear you can't hide behind "football acts" if you are doing them in a reckless way, especially where it pertains to the head.

The difference in past the spoil has been more of a roundhouse e.g. Maynard
https://www.afl.com.au/video/715021/maynard-in-hot-water-after-late-contact-on-giant?

I don't think JVR was reckless. I think his arm was going forward to the ball.

The old fashioned round arm like Maynards is trying to have a go both ways. 1/. I get the ball. 2/. if I miss the ball I get the player.

 

[NT.Thunder]

The JVR suspension I get even though I thought 2 weeks was harsh. I don't think "trying to spoil" gives a free pass for recklessness, and there is history of players being suspended for high hits when they punch a player trying to spoilt the ball.
The short of it is, players now need to think about duty of care when they are doing anything.. and the AFL has made it clear you can't hide behind "football acts" if you are doing them in a reckless way, especially where it pertains to the head.

I guess my question here is, and genuine interest, what are his options should he have his time again in the exact same scenario?

 

[Manikato1]

Feels like its more prevalent in Australia. Overseas athletes still are allowed to question and argue with ref's. And their crowds are more lively compared to ours. TBH I watch more international sport than AFL these days. It's better entertainment.

I watch a bit of EPL. Soccer has three issues. Umpire intimidation, fake injuries and diving. Diving has been reduced considerably in recent times because they give you a card. Fake injuries make the players look stupid. I played soccer for a couple of seasons and whack in the shin or ankle at full tilt is not fun. But it is not any worse than anything you get in footy. But they just act to get sympathy or a penalty. I have seen guys roll in agony and then get a can of magic spray on the shin (while still wearing socks and shin guards) then jump up an run away as though nothing happened.

The ref thing looks terrible -10 blokes in circle around the ref pulling his shirt, jabbing him in the chest with a finger, getting right up in his face, telling him he is wrong. The players always complain and say they never touched their opponent or the foul is not fair, or any other whinge they can think of. Meanwhile the replay shows they clearly hacked the guy down. When played openly and cleanly the game is a joy to watch but that other BS just drags it down and certainly does not make it any more entertaining for me.

 

[wolfbunny]

It seems strange to me on last nights conflicting results.
JvR gets 2 weeks for grazing the head after first taking the shoulder with his foreman. This was a ‘football action’ that certainly to my view wasn’t reckless.
And Newman gets off after first hitting the chest that slides up to take Neale's chin, which was not a ‘football action’, which looked more intentional in every aspect. And may of got a discount based on a letter from Neale, a throw back to yesteryear where the player code of denial was all the rage! I didn’t think that was even part of the decision process anymore?
In JvR‘s case, was the earlier head knock incident to the Suns player taken into consideration in their deliberations? And why has that not been cited? Either all head knocks are reportable or as in the AFL, just some?

 

[Tamuhawk]

Official.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1656116867583602688

View: https://twitter.com/melbournefc/status/1656116867583602688?s=20

Sweet!

 

[Socrates2]

I guess my question here is, and genuine interest, what are his options should he have his time again in the exact same scenario?

Punch the ball instead of the players head.

 

[NT.Thunder]

Punch the ball instead of the players head.

He didn't punch the players head but thanks for your observation.

 

[Chumpion]

I guess my question here is, and genuine interest, what are his options should he have his time again in the exact same scenario?

I think one realistic one is change the path of his arm that he is trying to spoil with. If he brings his arm down vertically instead of right to left, he is tracking the line of the ball and is "playing the ball", vs the right to left swing which is not only trying to get the ball but has a high likelihood of also impacting the body of the defender. I feel like his action loosely comes into the "make him earn it" approach, where the player either spoils the ball or creates a physical presence that causes the defender to maybe second guess their attack on the ball.

 

[Tamuhawk]

Punch the ball instead of the players head.

Definitely wasn't a fist, it was more of the bicep/forearm from what I saw.

 

[Socrates2]

He didn't punch the players head but thanks for your observation.

He missed the ball and his arm struck the players head and neck area.

 

[Shannon]

Punch the ball instead of the players head.

His bicep makes contact to his face/doesn't punch his head - you can see he is clearly trying to spoil the mark/impact the contest. There is no round arm action to indicate he was attempting to strike Ballard, his arm is straight which tells me is trying to spoil the ball.

 

[Rowsus]

In JvR‘s case, was the earlier head knock incident to the Suns player taken into consideration in their deliberations? And why has that not been cited? Either all head knocks are reportable or as in the AFL, just some?

This was my thinking too. I'm no medical expert, but is it possible that 2 impacts on a scale of 3-4/10, that by themselves wouldn't cause concussion, but combined in a short period of time, do cause concussion? If so, why is the 2nd player suspended for causing concussion, when he only partially contributed to it?

 

[Socrates2]

View attachment 56781

His bicep makes contact to his face/doesn't punch his head - you can see he is clearly trying to spoil the mark/impact the contest. There is no round arm action to indicate he was attempting to strike Ballard, his arm is straight which tells me is trying to spoil the ball.

It doesn't matter if he was trying to strike the ball, you can't coathanger people in the head like that with the new concussion rulings.