Discussion 2021: Strategy, Team & Player Discussions

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Totally this. IMO much of the congestion is because the umps have been directed not to pay a kick. It is no prior opportunity etc. If you have the ball and are tackled you must dispose of it correctly by hand or foot. It makes the umps job so much easier. No "interpretation". And no one stands around in a circle 5m from the man when a free kick is awarded. They all clear out because the ball is most likely going to get kicked at least 20 or 30m from where it currently is and they need to man up.
No disagree. Gotta keep prior op interpretation.

Reason being is VFL used to be played this way and bloke playing the ball is disadvantaged the moment he picks up the ball. So blokes were sitting off waiting for opposition to get the ball, then tackle. Thats why the prior op rule was implemented

Dropping ball in tackle should be pinged more often,

and keep ya hands out of physical contests, pushing etc, either tackle or use ya body. The AFL lets players push in marking contests, they call it battles of strength, when i played footy that was a bump, or body strength between fwds and def. Even when blokes head over the ball, trying to get hard/looose ball get, the opposition can run in push you from the side. That use to be a bump, but theyre ****scared of the bump.

Get ya hands off the other player full stop, pushing etc its a joke.....thats why scores are lower every year...
 
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I think they were going to be trialling a rule in the VFL this year where they have to have 3 players in each 50m arc? I think that could work in well with the new rule in opening things up a bit - at least you will only have 24 or 30 players swarm around the ball at any time, rather than 36...

Still not a fan of other rules that are unchanged where it is up to umpire interpretation, but hopefully scoring increases with this change, it will take few weeks to settle in before we know. I assume there will be articles early saying it's a great success due to higher scores before clubs figure out how to manipulate the rules a bit and it ends up being similar scoring to usual within a month or two.
Was that permanently in the F50 ? I thought I read something where it was only for stoppages and it would take something like 8-9 seconds for the players to run back into the F50 (similar time to how long it takes the umpire to restart with a bounce , and looking around nominating people).

The more and more I think about it I actually like the idea of players being based in "zones" if it actually opens up the problem.

The one big problem with football is that it is difficult (impossible) to attack the entire field with 1 kick (unlike soccer where a GK can kick the entire length of the field) , so we are waiting for the coach who tries the 3 direct quick kick attack game.

Defence tactics have in modern times been adapted from basketball/5 aside soccer but still used on their sized grounds and not adapted to ours.

I think the worst "look" of football is when you have 36 players all locked into one F50 and then the defending side actually gets clear ball but can't use it as their own forwards are also in the D50.

Open up the space by reducing the number of players allowed into it.

And actually umpire the rules as they are supposed to be.

Have a feeling this new rule will just get more players back in D50.

Don't think teams have enough players with high kicking skills to then be able to successfully play kick to kick around the F50 for a sustained amount of time and then be able to bullet pass successfully if and when the space does open up.

I guess we need to see some games to see if it actually works.
 
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Was that permanently in the F50 ? I thought I read something where it was only for stoppages and it would take something like 8-9 seconds for the players to run back into the F50 (similar time to how long it takes the umpire to restart with a bounce , and looking around nominating people).

The more and more I think about it I actually like the idea of players being based in "zones" if it actually opens up the problem.

The one big problem with football is that it is difficult (impossible) to attack the entire field with 1 kick (unlike soccer where a GK can kick the entire length of the field) , so we are waiting for the coach who tries the 3 direct quick kick attack game.

Defence tactics have in modern times been adapted from basketball/5 aside soccer but still used on their sized grounds and not adapted to ours.

I think the worst "look" of football is when you have 36 players all locked into one F50 and then the defending side actually gets clear ball but can't use it as their own forwards are also in the D50.

Open up the space by reducing the number of players allowed into it.

And actually umpire the rules as they are supposed to be.

Have a feeling this new rule will just get more players back in D50.

Don't think teams have enough players have high kicking skills to then be able to successfully play kick to kick around the F50 and then be able to bullet pass successfully if and when the space does open up.

I guess we need to see some games to see if it actually works.
It might only be at stoppages, think you are right, it was months ago I remember it being announced. Thinking it should be a full time thing, guess we'll see how it goes with the trial, I could be wrong and it ends up being terrible.
 
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No disagree. Gotta keep prior op interpretation.

Reason being is VFL used to be played this way and bloke playing the ball is disadvantaged the moment he picks up the ball. So blokes were sitting off waiting for opposition to get the ball, then tackle. Thats why the prior op rule was implemented
See plenty of HTB decisions paid with no prior and the excuse is they didn’t try hard enough to get it out. Then someone takes on 2 tackles after running 10m gets ripped to ground and the ball is thrown away called play on.
 
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Not sure why we need to bring in a new set of rules every season. The game is so poorly officiated as it is. Paying HTB/Incorrect disposal would be a good start. And stop players holding up the opposition after a mark or free kick. The amount of time they get to sit on a bloke or give the ball back is ridiculous. Just let’s players flood back into space. And waiting for ruckmen to get to a stoppage, I bet they just waffle over as slowly as they can to get more time for players to set up.
Agreed any shenanigans after mark or free awarded where they sit on them, hold them up to slow play needs to be pinged. Its generally pretty transparent.

The biggest issue for me in terms of scoring is off the ball holding. In 2018 and 2019 Richmonds defensive game was built on this.

Its a grey area right? Who initiated contact def or fwd.
How far outside 5m range? They dont look for this when the balls just left the boot, in flight. Often thats when they would initiate the hold.

Its easy to spot on TV or replay, at ground level by the time an umpire picks up where its going its then difficult to determine with any certainty when fwd def are setting for the mark who iniated contact and the off the ball holding isnt really front of mind when we see these battles of strength regularly. Rance & Grimes, master and apprentice.

Further...

If they pick it up, even then umps are loath to give the free too often in fwd line, as they dont like blowing whistle stop/start flow and be seen as influencing the game. Supporters consider it over umpiring. "let the game go ya mug" - wasnt Sam Newman a big advocate for putting whistle away?

Therefore im sure Dimma or def coach play the grey area and the % of it actually being called

Say you do it all day, for easy equation, lets say 10 times def initiates early hold. If the umps call 2 frees against. Well thats 80% of entries to their opponent they have slowed held up or effected their run at the ball.

Strong bodied, tall defending team like Rich or WCE vs fast, lighter mosquito fleet, or just an agile key fwd that can expose their pace, then it plays into their favour more than most realise.

If your team doesnt have a lot of entries, Richmond style of ground gained and moving up def to lock it in, pressure in fwd half on defenders trying to find target on way out, to break fwd press, if not the def wall results in multiple repeat fwd entries. Its a war of attrition, wet weather footy in the dry.

If their opponent fwd line have been playing a precision kick into fwd 50, mark on lead type game, this makes it much harder for fwd line find space, clean leads, or create distance between themselves and defender. When their other defenders are also holding their fwds away from getting in and supporting their team mates at fall of ball. The extra work required, how effective your scoring from entries are is massive.

There was one game in 2018 Rance was holding Jayden Stephenson with one arm, sideways 🤛thats how much stronger he was. Bloody Stevo looked like an school kid trying to get away from security for shoplifting. He was literally treading water, the legs were going and Rance was vicelike you aint going nowhere ya skinny rat.

I was irate...screaming at my TV "Play Footy Tuggys Play Footy" (they did it to Pies twice in 2018, surprisingly they didnt in finals where big Cox kicked 5 and it was bloody surprising when they were so good at it????)

Further...

Depending upon the read of the incoming ball, Grimes will if coming in overhead use strength to tunnel under the ball.

This is often the difference between faster ball movement where fwds lead up (hold), and slower ball movement, like a free kick or entry that comes in overhead. Its all about upsetting the fwds timing.


If you think im telling porkies, you can look at Rich vs Brissy 2019. Grimes did it to Charlie Cameron, denied his speed, upset his rythm all game. Chria F#gan actully addressed it in the media and to umpires to be aware.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/cameron-must-find-a-way-***an-20190903-p52nhm.html

------------------------------

The other point i wanted to make was the 2018 and 2017 GFs this trend of umpires putting the whistle away in 4th qtr of GFs is a joke.

Again by doing this the smaller fast fwd lines are at a disadvantage to the tall big body defensive sides. You have the whole season 22g, 3 finals and 3/4 of GF officiated as per rules of game. Got best umps to ump the biggest game of season, putting whistle away for the most important qtr of the year? its crazy yeah?

Leigh Matthews said the umps had a choked, the pressure got to them. He said, the problem with non umpiring/whistle away is the ones you do call are then judged by the ones that you do.

My issue is how can you ever determine if the game has been comprimise in a betting scandal?

How long before Prem teams, coaches in the last notice the umps letting the rules slide, whistles away and coach accordingly.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl...ires-says-leigh-matthews-20180930-p506x2.html


I honestly believe the coaches coach this grey area off the ball holding, and it has a major effects on the scoring.

Rather than extra mid ump, having fwd umps and use of 3rd fwd ump in the Review Hub looking for regular fwd 50 contests effected by off ball holding - that they can get a word down to umps on ground would help them determine if contact is initiated (how far off the ball/early) and who initiated between def & fwd.

Its holding the man. Bloody call it even if it results in 5 shots on goal enforce the rules as they were created. Instead of bringing in 25m kick in zones, and allowing the player run of the line of the mark while the bloke on it gotta stand still, what bull****

Quit fffkn with the game - cant even announce teams till day before bloody private school bastards
 
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By the way no offence to Tuggys been a great team, well coached but even champions Duckwood or Matty diving Lloyd eventually got on ya nerves for milking something the AFL needs to take responsibility for - not the coaches.

Or bring back the biff, you try that holding **** on Gary Yaaaaabblett he would quietly have a word in their ear "do that again and ill split ya down the middle"
 
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By the way no offence to Tuggys been a great team, well coached but even champions Duckwood or Matty diving Lloyd eventually got on ya nerves for milking something the AFL needs to take responsibility for - not the coaches.

Or bring back the biff, you try that holding **** on Gary Yaaaaabblett he would quietly have a word in their ear "do that again and ill split ya down the middle"
I was lucky enough to be at the G when Senior kicked 14.7 v the Bombers.

Was amazing how quick he was on the lead and how far ahead of his opponent he was (until he came down the other end and you actually saw what he was doing)

Reckon he gave Kickett 4-5 gut punches on different occassions to gain a "advantage" , while Kickett was still doubled up.

You are right though , forwards and defenders hold , no different to midfielders being held unfairly at the ruck contests around the ground.

Maybe it's time they did have a umpire in the bunker to monitor all this , and just keep paying free kicks until it stops.
 
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By the way no offence to Tuggys been a great team, well coached but even champions Duckwood or Matty diving Lloyd eventually got on ya nerves for milking something the AFL needs to take responsibility for - not the coaches.

Or bring back the biff, you try that holding **** on Gary Yaaaaabblett he would quietly have a word in their ear "do that again and ill split ya down the middle"
Can't remember anyone trying to illegally hold Plugger. Well not more than once anyway
 
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I was lucky enough to be at the G when Senior kicked 14.7 v the Bombers.

Was amazing how quick he was on the lead and how far ahead of his opponent he was (until he came down the other end and you actually saw what he was doing)

Reckon he gave Kickett 4-5 gut punches on different occassions to gain a "advantage" , while Kickett was still doubled up.

You are right though , forwards and defenders hold , no different to midfielders being held unfairly at the ruck contests around the ground.

Maybe it's time they did have a umpire in the bunker to monitor all this , and just keep paying free kicks until it stops.
and just for those playing at home, Fish kicked 10 and the bombers won !
 
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The West Australian has a paywall too.
Analogue technology rules.

Note also that teams cannot substitute a player on the mark. So if Big Max rips Caleb Daniels head off and is caught standing the mark one of his team mates cannot take his spot on the mark to let Big Max run up field to match up with the opposition ruck man. So you could get a mismatch.
 

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My guess is Tim Watson.

Sheedy convinced him to come out of retirement & that was his comeback game, he ended up playing in the premiership winning team that year/ Cinderella story.
Correct

I think we arrived during the first or second and their was something like 50,000 people in the ground watching , I thought they get here early.

But nope Timmy was playing.
 
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