Position 2022: Ruck Discussion
- Thread starter KLo30
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I've gone around and around but have finally landed back on Gawn at R1. His ruck draw is pretty kind for the first 6 or 7 games and if you look at what he did to similar teams at the start of last year... scary.
He could well taper off again but I think those points and big captain scores early are better to have locked away than trying to regain ground on everyone through smart trading later.
He could well taper off again but I think those points and big captain scores early are better to have locked away than trying to regain ground on everyone through smart trading later.
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In my case it has to do more with keeping the structure to bring in players like Will Brodie after feeling like we don’t have enough fwd rookies.
Marshall was my preferred option over everyone when I first created a side in December / early Jan but I was put off by some injury concerns in preseason. Since then three things have happened: Darcy has been injured, we found out players will get DPP meaning Marshall might be able to move forward and Ryder is likely to miss round 1 with a return date uncertain
Marshall was my preferred option over everyone when I first created a side in December / early Jan but I was put off by some injury concerns in preseason. Since then three things have happened: Darcy has been injured, we found out players will get DPP meaning Marshall might be able to move forward and Ryder is likely to miss round 1 with a return date uncertain
The Marshall team means I get down to 5 rookies on field with Brodie & Coleman at F5/6 paired with Lloyd down to a Ridley type to find the extra 50k.
I actually don’t mind the team but fading Lloyd early days could counteract the one less rookie on field if he goes on a tear.
I do agree with you that there’s a solid argument for Marshall but there’s a lot of ifs. Was your Dec/Jan team banking on him being DPP at the start of the season by any chance?
I actually don’t mind the team but fading Lloyd early days could counteract the one less rookie on field if he goes on a tear.
I do agree with you that there’s a solid argument for Marshall but there’s a lot of ifs. Was your Dec/Jan team banking on him being DPP at the start of the season by any chance?
I'm so torn on Marshall! The money it frees up is definitely handy, but I actually think Ryder missing hurts him as a starting option. He'll probably score much stronger in the first 1-3 rounds, but it also means it effectively destroys his chance at getting forward status so when Ryder does come back, you get Marshall's decreased scoring but stuck on the ruck line.
That said, rucks are a nightmare this year. There is no clear "set & forget" option, and there pros/cons is a mine field!
That said, rucks are a nightmare this year. There is no clear "set & forget" option, and there pros/cons is a mine field!
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I'm on the same train as you with Marshall - had him initially, then went cold, now need dollars for higher priced rookies. Edit: that was Pizza Safety.
I think the chance of him getting r/f is getting slimmer with each Ryder missed session/practice match. Ryder has had an achilles issue for a while, and surely must be a long way from full fitness. You would think even if he gets up for round 1, he is going to struggle to ruck 65% of the game? (which it would take to push Marshall forward for the 35% needed for a reclassification). I would have thought that St. Kilda would be fading Ryder's ruck % to the benefit of Marshall, even if there was no injury concerns.
There has already been talk of Ryder being managed and missing games, so his match fitness is unlikely to improve dramatically in terms of increasing his ruck share. I think if you (we) pick Marshall, you are picking him to score as a ruck similiar to how he finished last year.
I think the chance of him getting r/f is getting slimmer with each Ryder missed session/practice match. Ryder has had an achilles issue for a while, and surely must be a long way from full fitness. You would think even if he gets up for round 1, he is going to struggle to ruck 65% of the game? (which it would take to push Marshall forward for the 35% needed for a reclassification). I would have thought that St. Kilda would be fading Ryder's ruck % to the benefit of Marshall, even if there was no injury concerns.
There has already been talk of Ryder being managed and missing games, so his match fitness is unlikely to improve dramatically in terms of increasing his ruck share. I think if you (we) pick Marshall, you are picking him to score as a ruck similiar to how he finished last year.
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Geez how dumb was that? Clearly spending too much time moving the magnets and stuffing up basic maths!
It seems a bit arse-about that Ryder is injured, Marshall is likely to ruck more (than their standard 50/50ish) and yet would still be a decent chance at getting forward status.
If Marshall rucks for 66% or more of the time (i.e precluding him from r/f), how much does his scoring increase? He has generally scored a 100 and a bit when they have rucked evenly. Or maybe just go back to Darcy and stop confusing myself?
It seems a bit arse-about that Ryder is injured, Marshall is likely to ruck more (than their standard 50/50ish) and yet would still be a decent chance at getting forward status.
If Marshall rucks for 66% or more of the time (i.e precluding him from r/f), how much does his scoring increase? He has generally scored a 100 and a bit when they have rucked evenly. Or maybe just go back to Darcy and stop confusing myself?
The better path would be for Marshall to average at least that without Ryder but also to take the #1 ruck mantle from Ryder, Ryder can and has played forward, might make sense for him to be primarily forward with small stints and let Marshall roam.
Of course we can't tell what they prefer, Ryder is still in the very best tap rucks going around so they'd be sacrificing some ruck work for a bit more around the ground impact and probably a bit less forward impact as Marshall is a better forward. That's the hard part with that balance. It's not as obvious as Gawn/Jackson where Gawn is a significantly better ruckman and Jackson is at least his equal if not better as a forward.
Of course we can't tell what they prefer, Ryder is still in the very best tap rucks going around so they'd be sacrificing some ruck work for a bit more around the ground impact and probably a bit less forward impact as Marshall is a better forward. That's the hard part with that balance. It's not as obvious as Gawn/Jackson where Gawn is a significantly better ruckman and Jackson is at least his equal if not better as a forward.
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I like the Brodie pick but not the Coleman pick at this stage, hard for me to say if that's worth it, but trust what you know/believe the most.
I've already gone Lloyd to Ridley to free up cash, I'm just freeing up even more cash with this move.
Marshall was my preferred pick after finding out he was not DPP (otherwise I'd have him as a forward), I thought if he was fit he would go 110-115 based on the fact it was likely that Ryder would miss a handful of games, (scoring 105-110 in games with Ryder and 110-120 in games without him). I never liked the Darcy or Gawn picks and think they both go 115 but reluctantly went Darcy after hearing that Marshall was not completely fine in preseason.
Gawn has never once been in my side or been strongly considered by me (if Marshall looks proppy in the practice game he'd now be my preferred option) and Darcy's injury has me concerned I'm overpaying for a player who has just had a big year from out of nowhere. Ryder not playing to start the year is the main reason why I see Marshall as a good pick despite injury concerns, also knowing that if Ryder does play a decent amount of games this year I can swing him forward and upgrade Coniglio or somebody else to Gawn or whoever else.
Edit: this should have said Marshall would average 100-105 in games with Ryder.
I've already gone Lloyd to Ridley to free up cash, I'm just freeing up even more cash with this move.
Marshall was my preferred pick after finding out he was not DPP (otherwise I'd have him as a forward), I thought if he was fit he would go 110-115 based on the fact it was likely that Ryder would miss a handful of games, (scoring 105-110 in games with Ryder and 110-120 in games without him). I never liked the Darcy or Gawn picks and think they both go 115 but reluctantly went Darcy after hearing that Marshall was not completely fine in preseason.
Gawn has never once been in my side or been strongly considered by me (if Marshall looks proppy in the practice game he'd now be my preferred option) and Darcy's injury has me concerned I'm overpaying for a player who has just had a big year from out of nowhere. Ryder not playing to start the year is the main reason why I see Marshall as a good pick despite injury concerns, also knowing that if Ryder does play a decent amount of games this year I can swing him forward and upgrade Coniglio or somebody else to Gawn or whoever else.
Edit: this should have said Marshall would average 100-105 in games with Ryder.
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I don't see Gawn or Darcy blowing anyone away I guess, I have never been keen on any of the ruck picks and still have concerns over Marshall as a pick, I just see potential value in Marshall versus a lack of value in the other options with Ryder potentially missing a large amount of games this year and Marshall's scoring should go up a fair bit automatically from bigger time on ground. I think Sicily is basically a lock and am pretty set on everyone else in my side. Darcy has always been the player I was least enthusiastic about picking, the Ryder injury and circumstance has allowed me to go elsewhere. You can't always pick the safest options and need to take risks. If I have the cash and rookies allow it Marshall to Gawn is a move I'd strongly consider but because it looks like I need Hinge, Brodie and Curnow as rookie picks I don't see another avenue to getting them at the moment.
If you need to get expensive rookies you're changing the players you get no matter what, you're either dropping down premiums to cheaper ones or dropping a player for a midpriced cashed cow or just a cash cow to keep the players you like the most.
If you need to get expensive rookies you're changing the players you get no matter what, you're either dropping down premiums to cheaper ones or dropping a player for a midpriced cashed cow or just a cash cow to keep the players you like the most.
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I share the concern but you should have him stuck on the ruck line only as long as Ryder isn’t playing in which case he should score more points, if Ryder does play and misses the first few games then Marshall should get DPP by round 12, the question then is just if Gawn and Darcy hurt you a lot, which I'm no sure about.
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